Hello hello

This is probably a common question, but if know there are people here that will answer it anyway. So I just ran the beginner box, it went fairly well, a little rough at first but as we learnt the mechanics a little better, then the action went along very well.

But I did run into a bump along the way, SPACE COMBAT. I've read into it a little but the rules just don't make that much sense, or maybe it's just not written all that well for the beginners game.

Anyway would anyone be able to explain, how SPACE COMBAT works, it a simple way so that I might be able to recite it to my players as well.

Thanks

Simple way: it's like personal combat except in space, the main difference is that movement can cost more than 1 manoeuvre - depending on Speed of vehicle and distance travelled.

It depends upon narration and suspension of disbelief - just like personal combat.

Of course, there's more to it than just that, but I think that's the basic idea. Of course it has a few other manoeuvres and actions available.

Some pointers:

• You don't have to spend a fly/drive manoeuvre every round - that's only needed if moving between range bands, or narrating closing in on a starship/space station for docking or boarding or whatever.
  • This has caused some people to react, but to put it like this: unless you're moving somewhere specific, you'll be moving anyway as you're in combat, be it a holding pattern or navigating to get cannons in line with targets, avoiding debris, and so on.
• When a fly/drive manoeuvre takes you into terrain, it is upgraded to an action as it becomes a skill check.
• Performing other manoeuvres in terrain can also, if the scene/narrative would imply it, upgrade these to actions.
• Use terrain - require pilot checks, add setback dice; switch between speed/silhouette based difficulties and set difficulties: remember setback dice.
• Do not require a pilot check every turn, unless the intention is to make it that much more difficult for the players. For instance a good rule of thumb is to require a pilot check as the ship enters a type of terrain in a given area. Then let the pilot do other stuff. Require new checks when leaving or changing terrain types, and perhaps every 2nd or 3rd or 4th round, depending upon size of battle, craziness of terrain and so forth - but I'd not recommend requiring a pilot check due to terrain every round, every third seems to work well if at all needed.
• Let the narrative guide the game, use the rules, but if it doesn't make sense in a given encounter or situation, ignore the rules and go with gut feeling and the Star Wars-common-sense (which focuses a lot more on coolness than actual common sense ). So for instance, ignore or use firing arcs and defensive zones as makes the most sense in the situation, but cooperate with the players and be as consistent as possible. Include your players in these decisions. When flying through the second Death Star, it's only possible to hit the rear defensive zone... that's it. Ruling that Gain the Advantage has no effect in there would be reasonable, at least in the most confined spaces (or you could increase or upgrade the difficulty as you see fit), evasive manoeuvres might not be available either so it doesn't matter... right? or you could require a check for evasive manoeuvres in such a case.

Basically: space combat, or vehicle combat, is a lot like personal combat, but since we're used to it being very different it's easy to think of it as more complicated than it is. As rounds are easily 1 minute if not longer (at least in vehicle combat), distances covered are vast both in space and on a planet. For inspiration watch TCW and the films... look at the space combat scenes, the chases, how vehicles behave in that universe.

One thing i found really strange was the hit chance be based on relative silhouette instead of relative speed.

There are changes between the beginners' game and the core book regarding space combat?

The speed vs silhouette thing has been discussed ad nauseam. There are arguments for and against that makes sense. I think silhouette works very well, at least in my experience. It's simpler, easier and makes enough sense.

I'm not sure if there are any changes between the beginners' game and the core book, if there are I'm pretty sure they're minor.

There are some changes between the beginner game and the core book, mostly it's (like everything else in the beginner box) stuff that's been dumbed down to make it easier, but that you need to know if you want to do much more then what you find in the Box set and LAotH. For example the begineer box just gives the Krayt Fang a universal defense rating instead of allowing the players to angle deflectors.

Also for what it's worth the Box encounter is relatively weak, being more about teaching mechanics then actually providing a fun encounter.

Jegergryte's advice is all pretty solid.

If it helps the thing I had to do that finally made it all click was to reread the vehicle combat chapter of the EotE CRB with the perspective that if it didn't say it there, it didn't happen. A lot of what confused me turned out to just be me trying to apply other conditions and concepts form other games onto this system (which is usually the problem other people have too).

Here's also some bullets I dropped in a thread over in the AoR forums that you might find useful:

• Make sure the players understand they need to fight to the abilities of the aircraft and not the character inside. It can be pretty jarring of a transistion. A couple flight school encounters to demonstrate this may help.
• Apply setbacks to everyone often. This can be for conventional terrain like asteroids, or more unconventional effects like the chaos of a major battle. Once you start stacking three or four setback dice on those to-hit rolls the NPCs have a lot of trouble landing hits, and executing maneuvers. The PCs on the other hand will have talents like Skilled Jockey and maneuvers like copilot that negate those setbacks.
• Encourage destiny point usage. Remember it should be a back and forth. Those little bonuses add up.
• Watch the enemies, don't throw huge numbers of opponents at the players, allow a leadership or piloting or warfare check to cut enemies off from the larger group so fights are more manageable and you can narrative end the larger battle once the players score some kills, but before they get splashed themselves.
• Teach the players how to leverage the mechanics and maneuvers. They need to know when to gain the advantage and when to accept the disadvantage. They need to know how to cheat the movement and range system to isolate enemy fighters. And so on.
• Use your blasted sensors
• Use your blasted missiles
• Keep your blasted feet off the seats
• Use your blasted astromech
• Y-wings, with their large crew complement, are a good starter fighter. They allow the players to do a lot with a little and better stack effects. Use the blasted table on pg 248 (in EotE it's on 237). USE IIITTTT......
• A-wings are NOT for beginners unless the gm is going to stack the odds heavily in the players favor. Wait till they get the hang of fighter combat and the Tricky Target talent.
• Angle your blasted deflectors.
• Check out the AoR GM screen, waaaaay in the back of the accompanying booklet is instructions on how to merge your Player fighter with a larger group of minions.

I managed to get my hands on the EOTE gm screen, and accompanying adventure and other stuff, thanks for all of year replies. I will definitely get myself to core book, probably Wednesday, my flgs isn't open till then. I shall now reflect back on the rules and definitely use all your advice.

Thanks