From playtesting with my Gencon Decimators the non-Kenkirk ones aren't viable, they die too fast at 0 Agi. Kenkirk however... is as obnoxious as Super Han or Chewbacca Loves Predator

Yeah. I really dont like the daredevil trick. it costs 9 points and 2 stresses. Besides, the phantom already has enough problems trying to avoid being rammed as if it was an epic game.

hoenstly, the vt seems like an epic ship. the 0agility has me worried though

I thought getting two stress didn't change anything compared to getting one, am I missing something?

Yes. first you only remove 1 per green move. so that means your next move will assuredly be green and also have no action. (thats a big loss).

two stress guarantees a lost action also.

I was under the apparently mistaken impression the stress was removed all at once, thx for the information.

From playtesting with my Gencon Decimators the non-Kenkirk ones aren't viable, they die too fast at 0 Agi. Kenkirk however... is as obnoxious as Super Han or Chewbacca Loves Predator

Just curious--how many playtests is that?

8-10 games with the non Kenkirks, 6-7 with the big K

The Decimator won't be all that different from the current turret ships.

Just have to change up your strategy.

A decimator vs phantom squad both have the same chance to win.

It all matters what each opponent does.

Strategy I use against Falcons o think will still work against a decimator.

Throw my ties at it.

Now he can ignore them and have it torn apart by them, and maybe or he will focus on them.

Echo can stay at range 2 and 3 easier than ant other ship

I think building a strategy around purposely hurting your own ship that costs half of your list to counter another specific ship is a bad idea. Take it into a tourney and tell us how you get on.

I was expecting this thread to be about Decimator with Rebel Captive. No Advanced Cloak makes the phantom really vulnerable.

A Decimator with Vader + Gunner does 2 guaranteed damage each turn in a 360 arc.

No it doesn't. If the first shot hits then you don't get the second shot. He can also just keep the Phantom out of range.

A Decimator with Vader + Gunner does 2 guaranteed damage each turn in a 360 arc.

No it doesn't. If the first shot hits then you don't get the second shot. He can also just keep the Phantom out of range.

If the first shot hits, he triggers Vader for an additional damage.

If it doesn't, he gunners and vaders twice.

A Decimator with Vader + Gunner does 2 guaranteed damage each turn in a 360 arc.

No it doesn't. If the first shot hits then you don't get the second shot. He can also just keep the Phantom out of range.

if he hits he did at least 1 dmg and then he adds vader, so he always has a minimum of 2 dmg

X-Wing forum dwellers: "Yeah, brah, Green dice don't matter! Don't count on them at all."

FFG: "Okay, here's the Decimator, a ship with 0 agility."

X-Wing forum dwellers: "Duuude, that ship isn't going to be any good, it doesn't get to roll any green dice."

8-10 games with the non Kenkirks, 6-7 with the big K

Then I suppose my question is--granting that the non-Kenkirk Decimators aren't effective--why you think that's happening. Mathematically it looks a lot like a named YT-1300 in terms of overall durability, and (even without the Falcon title, and in the pre-Threepio days) they did just fine.

X-Wing forum dwellers: "Yeah, brah, Green dice don't matter! Don't count on them at all."

FFG: "Okay, here's the Decimator, a ship with 0 agility."

X-Wing forum dwellers: "Duuude, that ship isn't going to be any good, it doesn't get to roll any green dice."

details. they count. just never expect them to.

X-Wing forum dwellers: "Yeah, brah, Green dice don't matter! Don't count on them at all."

FFG: "Okay, here's the Decimator, a ship with 0 agility."

X-Wing forum dwellers: "Duuude, that ship isn't going to be any good, it doesn't get to roll any green dice."

details. they count. just never expect them to.

Ah... but if we follow that logic, wouldn't it be better to NOT squad points for green dice and instead get a ship with, say, 16 hull+shields, a turret primary and numerous upgrade slots?

X-Wing forum dwellers: "Yeah, brah, Green dice don't matter! Don't count on them at all."

FFG: "Okay, here's the Decimator, a ship with 0 agility."

X-Wing forum dwellers: "Duuude, that ship isn't going to be any good, it doesn't get to roll any green dice."

details. they count. just never expect them to.

Ah... but if we follow that logic, wouldn't it be better to NOT squad points for green dice and instead get a ship with, say, 16 hull+shields, a turret primary and numerous upgrade slots?

Nod. I'm still gonna play this ship. Roll red friends.

Also, Ysanne is an auto-include for me. Rebel Captive is next best crew choice imo. Gonna have to learn how to dodge arcs with a big ship. This might help spread the damage out a bit... but I'm gonna have to playtest this list to realy know if its any good or just for funs.

I would thank my opponent if he cared that much for killing my phantom, almost eliminating half your list to take out 1/3rd of mine? Sign me up, I find that more then a fair exchange. I have played games where people left my phantom and killed my other ships, to be carried by the phantom. I then did a rematch and they killed my phantom to be decimated by my other units (ha the pun). It isn't a smart idea to commit half your force to deal with only a 1/3rd of theirs.

But by no means not try it. Just remember it really isn't going to be a optimal.

At MOST 25% of my squad to kill AT LEAST 35% of yours? I'll take that. I'm inclined to be a bit more conservative with Vader than the OP, but it is far from an outlandish unplayable ship.

A Decimator with Vader + Gunner does 2 guaranteed damage each turn in a 360 arc.

No it doesn't. If the first shot hits then you don't get the second shot. He can also just keep the Phantom out of range.

If the first shot hits, he triggers Vader for an additional damage.

If it doesn't, he gunners and vaders twice.

Yup; I brainfarted.

I would thank my opponent if he cared that much for killing my phantom, almost eliminating half your list to take out 1/3rd of mine? Sign me up, I find that more then a fair exchange. I have played games where people left my phantom and killed my other ships, to be carried by the phantom. I then did a rematch and they killed my phantom to be decimated by my other units (ha the pun). It isn't a smart idea to commit half your force to deal with only a 1/3rd of theirs.

But by no means not try it. Just remember it really isn't going to be a optimal.

I think you are guilty of a bit of exaggeration here. He doesn't have to spend 50% of his squad, as it only takes 1/2 of the decimators HP, not all of it. He is dedicating 25% of his squad to eliminating at least 35% of yours (35 points for your standard Echo+VI+ACD). And this is only if on 4 successive attacks he is unable to land a single hit.

At MOST 25% of my squad to kill AT LEAST 35% of yours? I'll take that.

Has anyone tried lower PS Decimators with Vader (crew)? I'm talking about using it to either:
A) Activate Kenkirk's ability faster (considering cutting your own shields off in effect. But for *something*)

B) To make an easier to use doom shuttle (and arguably more durable).

I would thank my opponent if he cared that much for killing my phantom, almost eliminating half your list to take out 1/3rd of mine? Sign me up, I find that more then a fair exchange. I have played games where people left my phantom and killed my other ships, to be carried by the phantom. I then did a rematch and they killed my phantom to be decimated by my other units (ha the pun). It isn't a smart idea to commit half your force to deal with only a 1/3rd of theirs.

But by no means not try it. Just remember it really isn't going to be a optimal.

I think you are guilty of a bit of exaggeration here. He doesn't have to spend 50% of his squad, as it only takes 1/2 of the decimators HP, not all of it. He is dedicating 25% of his squad to eliminating at least 35% of yours (35 points for your standard Echo+VI+ACD). And this is only if on 4 successive attacks he is unable to land a single hit.

At MOST 25% of my squad to kill AT LEAST 35% of yours? I'll take that.

But by the time you have landed those 2 hits, my other ships would of dwindled the decimator down as well. Meaning that between the 2 rounds, that decimator is down to almost no health or dead. Yes the other team will still have half their their forces, but mine still has over 60% even with sustaining damage from the rest of the deci squadmates. At best you are running and even trade with the deci.

But my point isn't that one is clearly superior. I don't think one is. But you acted as if the OP's suggestion was just outlandish and likely stupid, which it is not. I might think it favors the Decimator squad a bit, and you might argue it favors the Phantom squad a bit, but it isn't worthy of scorn, which is the point I'm trying to get across.

Ah the old Squad A on paper beats Squad B on paper debate. Get to some playtesting and share the results! Number crunching is one thing, but games obviously never play out that way. Even if the VT list is great against a Phantom can it actually bring down other lists reliably?

And as far as green dice go, dodging is for cowards! Run through the blaster fire like its raindrops!

And as far as green dice go, dodging is for cowards! Run through the blaster fire like its raindrops!

The Hagekure, an 18th-century book of precepts for samurai, has this to say about dodging raindrops:

There is something to be learned from a rainstorm. When meeting with a sudden shower, you try not to get wet and run quickly along the road. But doing such things as passing under the eaves of houses, you still get wet. When you are resolved from the beginning, you will not be perplexed, though you still get the same soaking. This understanding extends to everything.

And as far as green dice go, dodging is for cowards! Run through the blaster fire like its raindrops!

The Hagekure, an 18th-century book of precepts for samurai, has this to say about dodging raindrops:

There is something to be learned from a rainstorm. When meeting with a sudden shower, you try not to get wet and run quickly along the road. But doing such things as passing under the eaves of houses, you still get wet. When you are resolved from the beginning, you will not be perplexed, though you still get the same soaking. This understanding extends to everything.

it is inevitable. give in to the dark side.

Also... what about... 57 pts for Decimator to kill off all high PS ships and opposing Phantoms ... and 40 points for Echo to clean up the 5 ties?

(If you're a good flyer, 5 ties could theoretically stop Echo, good enough coverage to possibly stop optimal decloakings

Has anyone tried lower PS Decimators with Vader (crew)? I'm talking about using it to either:

A) Activate Kenkirk's ability faster (considering cutting your own shields off in effect. But for *something*)

B) To make an easier to use doom shuttle (and arguably more durable).

The point of Kenkirk's ability is to get you up when you are down, not to carry you the whole game. It is a very bad idea to try and actively activate it sooner rather than let it happen naturally.

Has anyone tried lower PS Decimators with Vader (crew)? I'm talking about using it to either:

A) Activate Kenkirk's ability faster (considering cutting your own shields off in effect. But for *something*)

B) To make an easier to use doom shuttle (and arguably more durable).

The point of Kenkirk's ability is to get you up when you are down, not to carry you the whole game. It is a very bad idea to try and actively activate it sooner rather than let it happen naturally.