Slug Throwers and Improved Reflect

By kaosoe, in Game Mechanics

I love the fact that FFG included rules for Cortosis Jacketed rounds for slugthrowers, it makes these suboptimal weapon choices more viable, but it's always been a point of contention with one of my more passionate players about how Slugs and Lightsabers should interact.

Many on these boards may disagree with me, but I want definitive rules on whether Improved Reflect can be used for slugthrower weapons (or any of these non-standard weapons like the crowd control weapons from Far Horizons). Common sense would tell you that you cannot use reflect against these weapons but I would like to see something explicit, even if it's an optional sidebar under the description for reflect or slugthrowers.

Forgive me for being direct in this, I was just hoping Force and Destiny would settle this dispute. I like that a player uses Slugthrowers for character reasons, and having another bonus for these suboptimal choices can only be a good thing. Right?

RAW: The ranged attack’s hit must be one that is able to

be reflected and redirected (generally only blaster

weapons fall into this category; anything else is subject

to GM oversight). This ability may not be used if

the original attack disables the character.

Took the words out ta my mouth

Better question: you attack me with a stock vibro Axe, I parry with my lightsaber. What happens?

Edited by Ghostofman

RAW: The ranged attack’s hit must be one that is able to
be reflected and redirected (generally only blaster
weapons fall into this category; anything else is subject
to GM oversight). This ability may not be used if
the original attack disables the character.

I poured through book trying to find that. Where is that mentioned? If it was an obvious place and I missed it, I am going to be so angry with myself to overlooking it.

It's in the talent write up I think, for Reflect.

It's under the Improved Reflect entry.

Edited by 2P51

The talents chapter.

Stupid me. I read that talent multiple times and I did not see that second paragraph. Thanks all for helping me out. Let's forget this tread ever existed. :)

No problem, it's why we come here.

I would say you could block a bullet with a saber. If a saber can cut through a bulkhead then a bullet hitting it would just melt. You might have some molten splatter (ouch) but no slug. You obviously couldn't reflect it back.

I do like the Cortosis slugs. Back in my West End days my Jedi killer character wielded sonic guns as a weapon of choice.

Took the words out ta my mouth

Better question: you attack me with a stock vibro Axe, I parry with my lightsaber. What happens?

You avoid the blow. The talent says Parry, but that doesn't mean that your lightsaber necessarily has to come into contact with the axe. This is also an area where real-world mechanics has to yield to gameplay, otherwise people wielding lightsabers would automatically destroy all other weapons by parrying, deflecting or otherwise avoiding being hit. And that would make an already very good weapon insanely overpowered.

Took the words out ta my mouth

Better question: you attack me with a stock vibro Axe, I parry with my lightsaber. What happens?

I thought about this and figured it's either a "glancing parry" (too quick a strike to power through the vibroaxe) or you "parried" by way of a threatening move, making the axe-wielder miss. To keep it sane and not screw those without lightsabers, I agree that Sunder should be an active attack. After all, when using Sunder you're actively trying to damage/destroy a weapon whereas when parrying you're trying not to be hit.

A cool Talent might be "Defensive Sunder" which allows you to spend Threat as Sunder Advantage when Parrying. Of course, with two Triumph you can destroy a weapon as well. Finally, Despair can be used to damage a weapon and signify the above vibroaxe being struck by a parrying lightsaber.

The system's so elegant and makes it easy to bring the narrative awesome. I feel that as time goes on and more codified options are given, some people feel the increase of rule options means less narrative ones. 'Could be wrong.

Common sense would tell you that you cannot use reflect against these weapons but I would like to see something explicit, even if it's an optional sidebar under the description for reflect or slugthrowers.

1 - The field sheathe that contains the lightsaber's plasma can be used to interact with the bullet's trajectory, deflecting it just enough to miss the Jedi.

2 - The plasma blade can obliterate the bullet as it passes through it.

3 - The bullet melts into a super-hot liquid and splashes across the Jedi's face. OUCH!

Edited by evileeyore

For "fairness" purposes I'd say that Cortosis bullets could be Reflected. You're good enough to keep them from shutting the blade off and give them back. ;)

Edited by Alderaan Crumbs

Common sense would tell you that you cannot use reflect against these weapons but I would like to see something explicit, even if it's an optional sidebar under the description for reflect or slugthrowers.

There are two ways to look at this issue:

1 - The field sheathe that contains the lightsaber's plasma can be used to interact with the bullet's trajectory, deflecting it just enough to miss the Jedi.

2 - The plasma blade can obliterate the bullet as it passes through it.

3 - The bullet melts into a super-hot liquid and splashes across the Jedi's face. OUCH!

2 - That's generally how I'll flavor when Reflect is used and the resulting damage was mitigated by the talent and/or soak.

3 - And that may be how I'll flavor when Reflect was used but the talent and soak did not completely negate the damage.

3 - And that may be how I'll flavor when Reflect was used but the talent and soak did not completely negate the damage.

EAT HOT LIQUID METAL JEDI SCUM! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Err, sorry, just getting into character for my eventual campaign...

A cool Talent might be "Defensive Sunder" which allows you to spend Threat as Sunder Advantage when Parrying. Of course, with two Triumph you can destroy a weapon as well. Finally, Despair can be used to damage a weapon and signify the above vibroaxe being struck by a parrying lightsaber.

Ooooohhhhh...

Probably too far into this book to insert that, but there's something sexy for a career book down the road....

A cool Talent might be "Defensive Sunder" which allows you to spend Threat as Sunder Advantage when Parrying. Of course, with two Triumph you can destroy a weapon as well. Finally, Despair can be used to damage a weapon and signify the above vibroaxe being struck by a parrying lightsaber.

Ooooohhhhh...

Probably too far into this book to insert that, but there's something sexy for a career book down the road....

Or make it now! :) The awesome thing about the game is that we have so much to work with. I was thinking about long-lost lightsaber technique that's rumored to be ruinous to any mundane melee weapon used against it...

SO with regards to the Cortosis JAcketed rounds,

how does the ability triget to short out a saber when the one doing the rolling is tha attacker and not the defender in this case.

WHen a Jedi hits a Cort object, thier roll has to be good enough to not shor out the saber(3t or 1 Des) but if being shot at, how would the Attacker using a slug thrower trigger that????

In this example, lets asume the attackers net results are 1Success/2 advantage/3 Threat

He hits the jedi for 10 points witha cortosis round.

Now the jedi uses reflect, and negates 6 points.

The argument i have seen is the Jaceted round can now attempt to short the saber??? but i don see this mechanically or without a roll from the defending jedi??

IT seems mechanically backwards and a major negative to the jedi if folks are hand waving this.