I have no problems at all with how they are handling their species selection. The books with the reprinted species have more than enough material to make me still want to purchase the books.

As for the font issues, I've heard this before, and it makes me ask: Have you guys submitted a support case to FFG on this issue? While beta forums may be a different case, only forum mods read the the general forums, so complaining about it to a bunch of fans will not change anything, If you want your voices heard, I suggest you submit a support ticket.

The best way to solve this is to make the species pages available for download. I don't think this would hurt sales of the other systems because anyone wanting only the species isn't going to buy the book they are in just for them, and anyone who is going to buy the other books are not going to buy them just because of the species they contain.

There is so much more information in the other books that I do not see making the species pages available for download to be in anyway an encumberment on sales.

I own both Core books, and the Beta books for AoR and FaD and I will buy the FaD core when it ships. I'm still working on collecting the other modules but that will come with time.

Unless I am mistaken Droids are the only Species you cannot use i FaD? I mean you could but they would have to have a career from one of the other core books. My point is are there any other non-Force-Sensitive species?

The best way to solve this is to make the species pages available for download. I don't think this would hurt sales of the other systems because anyone wanting only the species isn't going to buy the book they are in just for them, and anyone who is going to buy the other books are not going to buy them just because of the species they contain.

There is so much more information in the other books that I do not see making the species pages available for download to be in anyway an encumberment on sales.

I own both Core books, and the Beta books for AoR and FaD and I will buy the FaD core when it ships. I'm still working on collecting the other modules but that will come with time.

Unless I am mistaken Droids are the only Species you cannot use i FaD? I mean you could but they would have to have a career from one of the other core books. My point is are there any other non-Force-Sensitive species?

Unfortunately, the current license doesn't support PDFs. I think they can sneak buy for stuff like free RPG day, but most cases it falls under digital gaming.

The best way to solve this is to make the species pages available for download. I don't think this would hurt sales of the other systems because anyone wanting only the species isn't going to buy the book they are in just for them, and anyone who is going to buy the other books are not going to buy them just because of the species they contain.

There is so much more information in the other books that I do not see making the species pages available for download to be in anyway an encumberment on sales.

I own both Core books, and the Beta books for AoR and FaD and I will buy the FaD core when it ships. I'm still working on collecting the other modules but that will come with time.

Unless I am mistaken Droids are the only Species you cannot use i FaD? I mean you could but they would have to have a career from one of the other core books. My point is are there any other non-Force-Sensitive species?

Unfortunately, the current license doesn't support PDFs. I think they can sneak buy for stuff like free RPG day, but most cases it falls under digital gaming.

I don't think that is 100% accurate as 'Taming the Dragon' for EoE was not part of RPG day. I't just an encounter module they published freely.

Unless I am mistaken Droids are the only Species you cannot use i FaD? I mean you could but they would have to have a career from one of the other core books. My point is are there any other non-Force-Sensitive species?

My issue with F&D is that the premise in the range is each book is stand alone. So how iconic are droids? is the Star Wars game going to miss them if they aren't included?

I am missing the Princess, the Walking Carpet, The Nerf Hearder and the little Blue Ashtray.

Now, if I am being asked to buy EotE or AoR to include my muggles why not extend the same logic to the races and get rid of Twi'lek and Humans? Do I really need a Space Mechanic that tunes my engine with his mind and weilds a Lightsaber? How does my Space Mechanic feel about being a wanted man because he can and does repair my Space Van with nothing but his "Jedi tricks"?

For me, I know I am tilting at windmills. I am going to buy all three books and ask for more. However, if someone asked me, I can only buy one of the Star Wars books I am going to point out "this is not the book you are looking for" with the other two I can make epic tales that belong in the universe. I can even have Force users and some key powers.

With F&D there is iconic parts of the universe missing, enough so that I do not see this being a stand alone purchase.

Ok, so - just for the ones that don't have F&D (yet) - what exactly are the species? Obviously Human, Zabrak, Twilek, Togruta, if I interpret the artwork correctly. What about the others?

Thank you

Kel Dor, Cerean, Nautolan, and Mirialan

Thank you.

Jeebus Cripes, are people still whining about this???

FFG were clear about what they were doing and why. This was made very clear right from the start.

If you don't like it, you're free to spend your money elsewhere.

Oh I know, it's sooooo teeeeerribly tedious...I do hope you'll forgive me for daring to maintain a complaint when you've tried so terribly hard in past posts to pain people who do so as trolls, boors, churls and people who *exasperated sigh* obviously just don't get it! I beg your forgiveness in this matter, nay, 'pon my knees I beseech you for it ....

Easy... The point Maelora was making is that this has been discussed a LOT. Yes, your points are fair, but they've been made before and there are also good arguments against it.

As far as the BUSINESS "accusation" is concerned: it works. People buy it (some all of it, some just a few books), the company makes money, they publish many good books community happy. How many of the once great companies still put out a significant number of books? Not too many. It may be sad, but that's the way it is.

Kind regards

@ Maelora: happy about the species? Thought so

The best way to solve this is to make the species pages available for download. I don't think this would hurt sales of the other systems because anyone wanting only the species isn't going to buy the book they are in just for them, and anyone who is going to buy the other books are not going to buy them just because of the species they contain.

There is so much more information in the other books that I do not see making the species pages available for download to be in anyway an encumberment on sales.

I own both Core books, and the Beta books for AoR and FaD and I will buy the FaD core when it ships. I'm still working on collecting the other modules but that will come with time.

Unless I am mistaken Droids are the only Species you cannot use i FaD? I mean you could but they would have to have a career from one of the other core books. My point is are there any other non-Force-Sensitive species?

Unfortunately, the current license doesn't support PDFs. I think they can sneak buy for stuff like free RPG day, but most cases it falls under digital gaming.

They cannot sell PDFs they can give them away. At least that is what i have observed and have been told by those more in the know. IE devs.

@ Maelora: happy about the species? Thought so

Well, I'd prefer to see Pantorans, Rattataki, Miralukans, Arkanians or Zeltrons, or something my players would actually want to play. But hey, I'm okay with people getting their cantina aliens or skiff guards if they want. There's a lot of barrel to be scraping.

As to the topic creator's point... He may well be right but it's been discussed to death by now - this is the way they are doing it, for better or worse, and I think we should all move on, because it's simply not about to change.

Humans need to be in every rulebook. Sorry, but humans are the bland, vanilla basic character. Even if nobody wanted to play humans new players still need them to you get a feeling of the values.

"Aha, so Rick Regular is Brawn 2, and a Chewbacca the Wookie is Brawn 3. Now I have a feeling for those numbers."

So, sorry but if there is to be any value in the idea, that each book works on its own, there have to be humans in there somewhere.

Duros and Twi'leks...not so much. I really don't unterstand that. It just feels lazy and cheap to me, but for me droids should be included in every book along with humans, and sometimes I feel like the only person I know that would willingly or happily play a droid. So maybe those alien races are as essential to the average players as droids are to me, so as long as they don't overdo it with redundancy (like with most of the skill descriptions IMO there could be several different examples for rebellion and edge characters) I'm a happy bucket on wheels.

ed: grammar.

As to the topic creator's point... He may well be right but it's been discussed to death by now - this is the way they are doing it, for better or worse, and I think we should all move on, because it's simply not about to change.

As much I agree with your general oppinion in this thread, I very much disagree with this. Even if this is not going to change, especially then, or if it is something you are really unhappy with, you should keep complaining.

On the other hand you don't need to read or comment in topics that you find overly (unnecessary) represented . Not trying to start an argument or anything , but just let complainers be.

As long as they don't evolve into ugnaughts and highjack other threads.

Then you may fire when ready.

ed: spelling.

Unfortunately, the current license doesn't support PDFs. I think they can sneak buy for stuff like free RPG day, but most cases it falls under digital gaming .

'Cause that's ludicrous. Other USA based rpg companies publish PDFs and charge money for them... so... yeah.

IMO this comes down to some suit some where worried about "teh piratez" and just not understanding how reality works.

I think the point is that complaining here does nothing but annoy many fans rather than get the point across. You need to speak directly to FFG through support or the beta line.

Unfortunately, the current license doesn't support PDFs. I think they can sneak buy for stuff like free RPG day, but most cases it falls under digital gaming .

What? Does anyone have a site or direct quote for this?

'Cause that's ludicrous. Other USA based rpg companies publish PDFs and charge money for them... so... yeah.

IMO this comes down to some suit some where worried about "teh piratez" and just not understanding how reality works.

PDF rights are considered electronic/digital rights and fall under different area (Computer/Gaming) than the print rights (Books). It may be prohibitively expensive to have both. Even WotC didn't purchase those electronic rights in conjunction with the print rights. Online PDFs like the adventures by FFG and the articles back from WotC were considered support material an not sold and therefore were able to skirt the different rights issue.

PDF rights are considered electronic/digital rights and fall under different area (Computer/Gaming) than the print rights (Books). It may be prohibitively expensive to have both. Even WotC didn't purchase those electronic rights in conjunction with the print rights. Online PDFs like the adventures by FFG and the articles back from WotC were considered support material an not sold and therefore were able to skirt the different rights issue.

Still ludicrous, but in an entirely different manner.

Well, I'd prefer to see Pantorans, Rattataki, Miralukans, Arkanians or Zeltrons, or something my players would actually want to play. ...

Hmm, interesting. There are actually people who like Miralukans? Never would have thought. (Sorry being mean)

Pantorans and Zeltrons should be easy to stat with house rules. Bad advice coming from me, because I really hate doing this, but what I like about the really ALIEN aliens (e.g. not your Star Trek humans-with-antennae-glued-to-their-heads - just to be mean) is that they bring us "new rules" (or rather tweaks). As soon as you have rules for four-armed critters (or four-legged, like Vratix), you can improvise from there on. Prefer Besalisk to Xexto (which I do again)? No problem, just shift two stats.

That's really the fun of Star Wars, isn't it? There are so many options and all the different Star Wars universes we have in our heads; in the end only overlap to some degree and are otherwise quite different.

@ derroehre: "As long as they don't evolve into ugnaughts and highjack other threads." Don't complain, Ugnaughts are cool! (Even if I have to check the spelling every single time)

ed.: spelling

I like Miraluka, they are cool. And i agree with maelora here, the really alien races interest very few people, and will not be standard at the majority of gaming tables. People have a hard time feeling a connection with a chevin for example.

Yes some humanoid aliens are easy to create, other less so (miraluka for example, how do you do their permanent Force Sight?). Maybe a good compromise would be putting in a new humanoid alien in every splatbook that comes out, while the rest can be weird aliens?

PDF rights are considered electronic/digital rights and fall under different area (Computer/Gaming) than the print rights (Books). It may be prohibitively expensive to have both. Even WotC didn't purchase those electronic rights in conjunction with the print rights. Online PDFs like the adventures by FFG and the articles back from WotC were considered support material an not sold and therefore were able to skirt the different rights issue.

Ah, so it's not "digital gaming" but "digital distribution" rights. Now that sounds reasonable.

Still ludicrous, but in an entirely different manner.

No, it's Electronic Games actually.

Remember the Lucasfilm licenses for "Electronic Games" and "Tabletop games" were written in what? The Mid 80's at the latest? The idea of an e-book was big sci-fi stuff back then (even Star Trek DS9 had huge clunky iPad devices when it was on the air in the mid-late 90's for crying out loud).

So the way the legalese of the license agreements was worded back then means that today a game book in an electronic format is technically considered an "electronic game" and not a "tabletop game".

The only work around is there are exceptions for "promotional and marketing materials" which is why free adventures can be PDFs, because you still need the paper book to actually use it.

Remember the Lucasfilm licenses for "Electronic Games" and "Tabletop games" were written in what? The Mid 80's at the latest?

That strikes me as even more ludicrous.

Remember the Lucasfilm licenses for "Electronic Games" and "Tabletop games" were written in what? The Mid 80's at the latest?

And they weren't rewritten since?

That strikes me as even more ludicrous.

Welcome to the wonderful world of contract law.

Lucasfilm as a company so no need for a re-write, since separate licenses = chances for more money, and what for-profit corporation doesn't love making money for it's shareholders (public or private)?

However, with Disney taking over the reigns and already being a highly profitable company, they might be inclined to revisit the contract and amend the terms so that "tabletop games" also covers "electronic support products" such as for-sale PDFs. Best we can do at the moment is hope...

Remember the Lucasfilm licenses for "Electronic Games" and "Tabletop games" were written in what? The Mid 80's at the latest?

And they weren't rewritten since?

That strikes me as even more ludicrous.

It is ludicrous. But changing it requires lawyers to spend time doing it.

It is ludicrous. But changing it requires lawyers to spend time doing it.

On the flip side, I can totally see Lucas (and now Disney) being money grubbing ******* and not going with it.

Sigh.

FFG buying the license and are a small company...They don't get to set the terms.

FFG buying the license and are a small company...They don't get to set the terms.

Exactly.

FFG is a somewhat small-time operation when compared to major-league companies like Lucasfilm and Disney. Most RPG companies operate on a fairly slim profit margin, and additional expenses are a major concern, where a corporation like Disney can weather those additional expenses without as much worry. And for Lucasfilm, the Star Wars brand was pretty much a license to print money (not quite to the level of Nintendo and their handheld systems, but pretty close).

As the old gaming industry joke goes....

How do you earn a small fortune?

Take a large fortune and start an RPG company.

The only reason you're seeing more indie companies these days is because of the advent of public funding, such as Kickstarter, which allows said indie companies to greatly mitigate their up-front costs. And if the Kickstarter doesn't fund due to lack of interest, then said company isn't out any money, where in the olden days if you published a product and it tanked, said indie company was in trouble since they'd be losing money in an industry where the profit margins are quite small unless your game is called D&D or is a D&D clone such as Pathfinder.

I have not found it via searching and it seems a question unworthy of it's own thread so I will ask it here: Could someone be so kind as to perhaps which races can be found in which splat books? I have EotE and my friend has AoR, so we have those covered.

Thanks in advance.

The only work around is there are exceptions for "promotional and marketing materials" which is why free adventures can be PDFs, because you still need the paper book to actually use it.

Which is exactly why this would work, publishing ONLY the species data would be no different than publishing the character sheets as a promotional asset. You are not publishing a whole book you are only providing the Species data as a promotion for the books in which they are contained.

You learn all about that in 'Publishing' class at any university or in a copyright and cyberspace class like the ones offered at Stanford.