Okay. So there have been three core books and several supplements to introduce more races to the FFG Star Wars Universe. So why so many duplicates? I am tired of seeing Humans and Twi'lek in every book. Where are my Gungans!!

Simple. Each Core book needs Humans. Splat books are specific to their shtick. Just because you have a gran in the core book of AoE doesn't mean they can't add them to the EotE Colonist book. We would all love lots of playable races, but FFG is out to make money and they do separate each book by feel/what works. I feel like it is worth it, because we get the "point of view" of each core book. I personally wouldn't mind if they skipped stating out Gungans, but since at least one person desires them, ok.

Well, honestly...my all Gungan Jedi Campaign is a Death Stick Pipe dream. I was totally tongue in cheek...

But seriously. If all the races can be used in any of the three games...and I doubt ANYONE is going to ski buying a core book saying well the Age of Rebellion just isn't for me; why not have a boat load of playable species/races?

Sure, humans are all over the galaxy but once you spec them out, why the redux?? Don't get me wrong, the Corellian Human was a nice touch. Why not include a different human each time. A Llordian, Kuati, etc...that would be tres cool.

I'm with you, I like all that stuff. But, someone somewhere is going to just want one book. Plus it helps with rules lookup/character advancement when you have multiple.

You really think most of FFG's target market is going to buy Force and Destiny as their first SWRPG book, open up to the species page, see that the closest thing to humans as a PC choice are Llordians, find out that standard Humans are only in Edge of the Empire and say "oh that's fine, all my friends are fans of Han Solo's Revenge' by Brian Daley so they'll be fine with that. I'll just plunk down another $60 for EotE in case any of them want to play a human"?

The Core books are meant to be self-contained. A little bit of redundancy and repetition is necessary, including playing humans and other very common/popular choices.

Personally, I don't agree with every choice of repeat player species so far, but I think a lot of that could be remedied by just a *little* bit of an increase of options per book. Eight per core book has left a lot of players in my groups shrugging at trying to find one they like, and three per sourcebook is hardly enough to make it worth my while. I agree that *some* of the overlap in the sourcebooks is punishing to near-completionists like myself, but questioning the inclusion of humans in a Core book is just silly.

Think of it this way. Some people are just going to buy Edge books. Because that fits their version of Star Wars that they want to play. So they are going to stick to that line. Others are going to stick to Age and others to F&D. Each game line is likely going to need each species so each game line is likely to have some duplication of what happens in other lines. Those that follow all the lines are going to get some duplication along with a lot more variety.

Also, as pointed out by KRKappel (I think it was), even if the species stats make a re-appearance, the fluff description for each line is different; it might be the same race mechanically, but most of the text on them is new and tailored to that product line.

And IIRC, they have only had a single reprint in the splatbooks with the other two being unique; I haven't purchased that one yet, is that correct?

Twi'leks are only in the Edge of the Empire rulebook. F&D only marks their second apperance.

Yeah, aside from humans, Twileks are the only reprint.

Duros are in Enter the unknown and Age core. Droids are in Age and Edge core as are humans. But again in separate lines that FFG cannot assume people are buying all lines.

Bothans are reprinted too aren't they?

But if you wanna be upset about getting stuff over and over again, the Bantha in the Room is the rules reprints. Assuming you NEVER buy more than one tranche of the three books (something not impossible, but IMO highly unlikely) that means you're only gonna get half of one book - let's say a third to be generous - for rules, which, of course, if you only ever buy one Corebook, will work out well, cuz, you know, hard to play the game without the rules yeh?

Buuuut, once you start buying more than one Core, you start literally wasting money. Comparing EotE and AoR, I would say, at a conservative guess that there's about 200 pages of identical stuff (not counting my weird copy that had a printing glitch where 10 or so pages were given to me twice in the book - bonus I suppose) between the two cores.

Now, not counting the Vigorish...err...tax I paid, the book cost me about 60 bucks Canadian (both Cores). Each book is approximately 440 pages long (give or take, remember my EotE was a mutant), so, 60 bucks across 440 pages works out to a smidgen more than 7 cents a page - and 200 pages works out to about 14 dollars and 60 cents...about the price of a set of dice for this game.

Now, when I buy the Full Version of Force and Destiny, assuming it's the same size and assuming the same degree of reprinted material, now I've just blown 29 dollars and 20 cents out my nearest available orifice...oddly enough, about the price of the F+D Beta.

"You don't HAVE to buy all three books!"

Sure. I don't need both legs to walk either, but it tends to work better if I have them. Star Wars campaigns set in and around the Rebellion Era sooner or later are gonna run into situations where there is material required from all 3 of those Cores. Yes, you CAN run an exclusively EotE game and thereby cut out 60 percent of what Star Wars is. You can just buy EotE and AoR and thereby only cut out about 30 some odd percent of what Star Wars is. But to have the freedom and flexibility to do ANYTHING in the SW Universe, you need all three Cores - and FFG knows this.

They didn't HAVE to do the Cores this way. They could have released a generic system using other symbols on the dice, released a core rules document online for free OR if they insisted on asking you to pay for the rules, they could have released a core mechanics book and had all the other subsequent books branch off that core mechanics book.

Yes, some people would have complained. I dunno if anybody's noticed this but gamers are rarely completely happy with something, so some people would holler and cuss, most people would realize that IN RETURN for having purchased the core mechanics, they were now free to pick up and use ANY supplement for ANY game they liked, thereby allowing them to mix and match "Splatbooks" (hate that term) and core books to their heart's content with the core mechanics book being the rosetta stone - the one book to rule them all as it were.

But apparently the innovation and revolutionary nature of FFG's Star Wars exists only in its dice mechanics. Too bad.

My point is, after all this...if you wanna be mad, try being mad at the money you're throwing out the window on rules you already have.

And then, when all is said and done, brace for the Second Edition, when we can Commence Au Festivales alllll over again.

I thought Gran were reprinted as well. AoR core rule book and Far Horizons (Colonist splat book for EotE).

Ok, so - just for the ones that don't have F&D (yet) - what exactly are the species? Obviously Human, Zabrak, Twilek, Togruta, if I interpret the artwork correctly. What about the others?

Thank you

Ok, so - just for the ones that don't have F&D (yet) - what exactly are the species? Obviously Human, Zabrak, Twilek, Togruta, if I interpret the artwork correctly. What about the others?

Thank you

Kel Dor, Cerean, Nautolan, and Mirialan

There are at least 32 species (counting Species variants) available for players so far. Career books (such as the recent Far Horizons book) generally add 2-3 species that are not found in any other books.

Current Species that I know of:

Aqualish (Aquala), Aqualish (Quara), Aqualish (Ualaq), Arcona, Bothan, Cerean, Chevin, Chiss, Drall, Droid, Duros, Gand, Gand (Lungless), Gran, Human, Human (Corellian), Ithorian, Kel Dor, Klatooinian, Mirialan, Mon Calamari, Nautolan, Rodian, Selonian, Sullustan, Togruta, Toydarian, Trandoshan, Twi'lek, Weequay, Wookiee, Zabrak

Hopefully you can find a species you can relate to in this list!

There is also the unofficial species supplement. Not sure how many of those have now been released by FFG, though.

I just browsed through the Unofficial Species Menagerie 3.0 last night and found about 11 species that have since been published officially, not counting Chiss and Toydarians.

They didn't HAVE to do the Cores this way. They could have released a generic system using other symbols on the dice, released a core rules document online for free OR if they insisted on asking you to pay for the rules, they could have released a core mechanics book and had all the other subsequent books branch off that core mechanics book.

My point is, after all this...if you wanna be mad, try being mad at the money you're throwing out the window on rules you already have.

And then, when all is said and done, brace for the Second Edition, when we can Commence Au Festivales alllll over again.

Jeebus Cripes, are people still whining about this???

FFG were clear about what they were doing and why. This was made very clear right from the start.

If you don't like it, you're free to spend your money elsewhere.

Personally, I think they're already scraping the barrel when it comes to races, but the books are full of all kinds of stuff that's useful and valuable even if you don't care about new species.

Ok, so - just for the ones that don't have F&D (yet) - what exactly are the species? Obviously Human, Zabrak, Twilek, Togruta, if I interpret the artwork correctly. What about the others?

Thank you

Kel Dor, Cerean, Nautolan, and Mirialan

Oh, nice. Two of my players are playing a Togruta and a Nautolan. It will be great to finally be able to adjust their stats to the official ones from the books. How close to the unofficial stats are they, exactly? Do Nautolans still retain their bonus for seeing in darkness, and Togruta's the echo location bonus?

Really excited for this book. While I think I'm still going to prefer EotE's setting over the AoR and FaD, it's nice to be able to cater to the more 'force-minded' players of my group (aka Jedi wannabes ). As a matter of fact, I consider all 3 books to be just 1 game. If one of my players wants to use a spec from AoR to go with his EotE spec... why not, right?

There is also the unofficial species supplement. Not sure how many of those have now been released by FFG, though.

It is not made by FFG

Jeebus Cripes, are people still whining about this???

FFG were clear about what they were doing and why. This was made very clear right from the start.

If you don't like it, you're free to spend your money elsewhere.

Oh I know, it's sooooo teeeeerribly tedious...I do hope you'll forgive me for daring to maintain a complaint when you've tried so terribly hard in past posts to pain people who do so as trolls, boors, churls and people who *exasperated sigh* obviously just don't get it! I beg your forgiveness in this matter, nay, 'pon my knees I beseech you for it.

It has been my experience that when you maintain a narrative, it is difficult to ignore. When you maintain a complaint, it is recognized as being an ongoing concern, rather than something that is merely a momentary annoyance.

And I don't give a tinker's dam that the company said they were going to do it. Such statements are not the pronouncements of Almighty God, sealed forever in stone, but rather those of humankind, and as such are, if subject to sufficient counter-influence, perhaps changeable.

That is to say, once again, that regardless of what may have been said or explained, the way FFG chose to do this was clunky and they knew it was clunky, which IMO leaves them open to accusations ranging from lack of imagination to outright milking of the customer base.

"oh, but they're a business! They're SUPPOSED to make money! - etc."

Sure. And I will give them my money if they give me a product worth my money. And so far, on balance they have, but also so far I have two problems with the Core Books nobody at FFG seems to care about:

1) The font is too small, too light and therefore almost impossible for me to read.

2) In order to obtain the maximum flexibility in a tabletop Star Wars experience, they're asking me to pay for the same stuff multiple times.

This bothers me. And I don't care if the writers and officers at FFG fold their arms and say deal, and I don't care if the Bunny Boosters - who simply cannot handle any criticism of their beloved product unless it originates in their own minds or conforms to a narrow set of acceptable parameters - say deal, I will not quietly deal and I will speak out, all the time, every time an opportunity presents itself. Yes, even though on balance I still very much like this product and the system it uses.

Because in the rest of the world, that is how you change things dear Madam.

Unless many people are making the same complaint or echoing it, then it will be, in all likelihood, for nothing. Not to mention that they are more likely to "hear" you if you talk to them directly.

Jeebus Cripes, are people still whining about this???

FFG were clear about what they were doing and why. This was made very clear right from the start.

If you don't like it, you're free to spend your money elsewhere.

Oh I know, it's sooooo teeeeerribly tedious...I do hope you'll forgive me for daring to maintain a complaint when you've tried so terribly hard in past posts to pain people who do so as trolls, boors, churls and people who *exasperated sigh* obviously just don't get it! I beg your forgiveness in this matter, nay, 'pon my knees I beseech you for it.

It has been my experience that when you maintain a narrative, it is difficult to ignore. When you maintain a complaint, it is recognized as being an ongoing concern, rather than something that is merely a momentary annoyance.

And I don't give a tinker's dam that the company said they were going to do it. Such statements are not the pronouncements of Almighty God, sealed forever in stone, but rather those of humankind, and as such are, if subject to sufficient counter-influence, perhaps changeable.

That is to say, once again, that regardless of what may have been said or explained, the way FFG chose to do this was clunky and they knew it was clunky, which IMO leaves them open to accusations ranging from lack of imagination to outright milking of the customer base.

"oh, but they're a business! They're SUPPOSED to make money! - etc."

Sure. And I will give them my money if they give me a product worth my money. And so far, on balance they have, but also so far I have two problems with the Core Books nobody at FFG seems to care about:

1) The font is too small, too light and therefore almost impossible for me to read.

2) In order to obtain the maximum flexibility in a tabletop Star Wars experience, they're asking me to pay for the same stuff multiple times.

This bothers me. And I don't care if the writers and officers at FFG fold their arms and say deal, and I don't care if the Bunny Boosters - who simply cannot handle any criticism of their beloved product unless it originates in their own minds or conforms to a narrow set of acceptable parameters - say deal, I will not quietly deal and I will speak out, all the time, every time an opportunity presents itself. Yes, even though on balance I still very much like this product and the system it uses.

Because in the rest of the world, that is how you change things dear Madam.

What she's trying to say is FFG has already set in stone that there's going to be reprints between the three different games (though Sam did say there won't be within each game if they can avoid it).

With F&D barely in beta, nothings going to change soon. You don't like this that's fine, but you're unlikely to get any change until FFG decides its time to move to a 2nd edition, which is a long way off...

And seeing as how 2 core books are out and the third is a year away I just don't see things changing for a good long time. So you may as well accept that there are going to be 3 core books.

*shrug* Maybe they will change stuff (they could indeed darken the font for F+D in the final core release, you can't honestly tell me they can add or subtract words but somehow they can't darken the font - don't try to sell me that one 'cuz I ain't buyin' it) and maybe they won't. Maybe there's enough folks with my opinion saying stuff and maybe there isn't, but I guarantee you this:

If I just shut up and say naught, I automatically hand back any chance - no matter how small you might think it currently is - and thereby guarantee iron clad that there won't be any change....and perhaps not even for the 2nd Edition, which will likely happen a lot sooner than any of us are ready for.