Weapons can be taken away.

How do you remove the Force?

And how can one-hitting a human compare to juggling 4-5 AT-ATs?

I I do it like this:

1 pip to activate the Move Power

+1 pip for every size above Sil 0

+1 pip for every range to move

+1 pip for every extra target.

The limit of pips you can spend is the number of the upgrade you bought.

Bought only 1 strength upgrade? Then it's Sil 1 at max.

You might consider your encounter design... if there aren't cliffs or chasms then they can't drop them down them.

This is Star Wars... bottomless pits are a genre staple.

Of course this is true. But they don't have to exist everywhere!

Weapons can be taken away.

How do you remove the Force?

And how can one-hitting a human compare to juggling 4-5 AT-ATs?

I I do it like this:

1 pip to activate the Move Power

+1 pip for every size above Sil 0

+1 pip for every range to move

+1 pip for every extra target.

The limit of pips you can spend is the number of the upgrade you bought.

Bought only 1 strength upgrade? Then it's Sil 1 at max.

This jibes with my original interpretation. If it ever came up in a game I think that's how I would run it too.

Weapons can be taken away.

How do you remove the Force?

And how can one-hitting a human compare to juggling 4-5 AT-ATs?

I I do it like this:

1 pip to activate the Move Power

+1 pip for every size above Sil 0

+1 pip for every range to move

+1 pip for every extra target.

The limit of pips you can spend is the number of the upgrade you bought.

Bought only 1 strength upgrade? Then it's Sil 1 at max.

Okay, you can take away a Player's PC's weapon in-game, is the OP (or yourself) going to do it at the same level as you plan on gimping your Force using PCs?

Also 4-5 AT-ATs? Hyperbole much? Anyone want to throw out the required number of pips and the likely EXP cost to successfully juggle 4-5 AT-ATs?

It's all Fluff, mechanically there is very little difference in the effectiveness of the Force Powers and non-Force abilities at similar costs. Are Force users going to be bada$$? Yep, but no more bada$$ then any other PC potentially can be for the same amount of EXP spent. FFG spent a lot of time building this precisely so it would be fair.

Costs to juggle an AT-AT:

Class: 20 (if it is your second)

Talents: 100 to FR 2

Move-Tree: 65 for all Strength upgrades, another 15 for 1 range-band and to deal damage with it.

Total: 200 exp

I can now depending on the rules interprated throw 1 AT-AT every round.

Give me another 30 and i can throw up to 5.

If you charge only 1 pip for every effect as a whole (1 for move, 1 for strength, 1 for magnitude) with 3 pips i can juggle 5 AT-ATs per turn. For a total of 230 exp.

Please tell me how any other class could take out an army in a few rounds without resorting to a nuke?

If you charge 1 pip for every step in the upgrades like i do you would have to pay 6 pips to throw 1 AT-AT 1 range band far.

And 10 to juggle 5.

I might even be a ***** and charge another pip for every Sil every target is about Sil 0. Juggling 2 AT-ATs would cost 11, 3 would vost another 5 more .... you get the idea.

That way a powerful Master with FR3+ would be able to throw 1-2, but not annihilate entire armies in a few turns.

This is Star Wars... bottomless pits are a genre staple.

Of course this is true. But they don't have to exist everywhere!

Weapons can be taken away.

How do you remove the Force?

And how can one-hitting a human compare to juggling 4-5 AT-ATs?

I I do it like this:

1 pip to activate the Move Power

+1 pip for every size above Sil 0

+1 pip for every range to move

+1 pip for every extra target.

The limit of pips you can spend is the number of the upgrade you bought.

Bought only 1 strength upgrade? Then it's Sil 1 at max.

That's how we've been using it. That way not only do you need to invest experience, but you're going to only get significant options as you increase your Force Rating. Which to me makes sense, as you're becoming a more powerful Force user and capable of more.

I'm not sure if that's correct and if people want to run it differently then awesome, whatever works for your group. But I like this way as it feels more balanced and makes the player have to decide where to invest their pips, ie. invest in range or size? Can't have your Jedi cake and eat it too!

I think people get a little too side tracked in the max extreme example of why Move is OP. Some like to compare what a Joe gun can do with lots of xp. Here's why Move is overwhelmingly, unquestionably OP.

An entry level Force sensitive is FR1. It has a 33% chance to generate 2 pips. The Morality mechanic would not impose a severe penalty even if they had to flip a DP and convert 2 DS pips and that's the only Conflict they earn in the session.

That Force sensitive then spends 65 xp and then every round they can with a wave of their hand have a 33% chance to knock over an AT-AT. We won't say destroy, just knock it on its side and take it out of combat. There are no other specs that can with their 1st 65xp have a 33% chance to take out a Walker every round. Granted it's short range, but you are disabling a Walker.

Once they get to FR2, which is by no means a huge investment, use Emergent and it's 75 xp, they have a 100% chance of doing the above, and with an additional 30xp, a chance of being able to do it to 5 at once. Forget about the dramatic hurling through the air stuff, that's just knocking them over and taking them out of combat, which is all you need to do.

So for 170 xp, they can disable 5 Walkers a round with a wave of their hand. That's OP.

Personally, I would rather the unleash power have more damage potential than Move. And the rules in this case do not reflect that. But I recognize that that is personal taste.

Also 4-5 AT-ATs? Hyperbole much? Anyone want to throw out the required number of pips and the likely EXP cost to successfully juggle 4-5 AT-ATs?

Have you read the whole thread?

There have actually been several posts laying out specifically how the Move power works.

Okay, I'll admit that the Move power seems overpowered in that it doesn't scale well, it's obvious that the system is designed for personal scale and breaks down a bit when you get to larger objects. There probably should be more restriction as to size and range of things effected, however the scenario described really shouldn't be an issue.

The point I was making is that in normal encounters which are nearly always going to be in personal scale, it's not going to make a difference. Encounters involving enormous battlefields with AT-ATs roaming around within short distance from one another, that a Force using PC can get to without getting blown to pieces, isn't going to happen that often. 99% of the games encounters are going to be personal scale, maybe a vehicle or few but nothing as grand as a major battlefield. At personal scale you're typical Joe gun is going to be mowing down as many, likely a lot more, individuals each session then they're Force using counterpart. So sure if we take Force powers to they're logical extreme they seem pretty over powered but the truth is the game is rarely about the absolute extremes, and if you end up finding yourself in one of those extremes then use your GM authority and put on the breaks. But don't gimp normal Force using Players who aren't trying to juggle AT-ATs just because they could, possibly, maybe do it if all the conditions of a potential encounter were exactly perfect for it to work.

Perhaps with Move, part of the issue might be addressed by house-ruling how the damage scales?

Instead of the current system of Silhouette x10 for objects of Silhouette 1 and larger, change it so that the damage is instead base 5 with a +5 bonus for each Silhouette above 0?

Silhouette 0 object = 5 damage (no change)

Silhouette 1 object = 10 damage (no change)

Silhouette 2 object = 15 damage (5 less)

Silhouette 3 object = 20 damage (10 less)

Silhouette 4 object = 25 damage (15 less)

As for it's damage compared to FaD's Unleash power, I think the fact that Move is dependent on there being really big objects to throw around balances the higher damage potential vs. Unleash's ability to simply crank out damage on a whim, to say nothing of Unleashed having the potential to also deal strain damage or apply the Burn quality for a few rounds.

The OPness of Move aside, if you want to not have a Nemesis thrown off a cliff the Beta Force and Destiny book has a sidebar about resisting being thrown by an opposed Willpower Vs. Resilliance roll or resisting your weapon being pulled away by an Opposed Athletics roll.

How about limiting maximum silhouette size to the character's current Force Rating?

move as written can become overpowered quite quickly. you need a mature player to use it properly. if you are short on mature players you might have to nerf the "move" powers. or make people (ab-)using them "famous" if they use their powers in the open all the time. i'm sure they'll like the attention of bounty hunters and the imperium.

The OPness of Move aside, if you want to not have a Nemesis thrown off a clip the Beta Force and Destiny book has a but about resisting being thrown by an opposed Willpower Vs. Resilliance roll or resisting your weapon being pulled away by an Opposed Athletics roll.

Does it really? Awesome. What page is that on? I can't wait to get my hands on the FnD beta.

The OPness of Move aside, if you want to not have a Nemesis thrown off a clip the Beta Force and Destiny book has a but about resisting being thrown by an opposed Willpower Vs. Resilliance roll or resisting your weapon being pulled away by an Opposed Athletics roll.

Does it really? Awesome. What page is that on? I can't wait to get my hands on the FnD beta.

Page 195 in Force and Destiny, it's the giant red box at the bottom. Also keep in mind that if you make a bad guy Force Sensative any force powers used against him/her can be an opposed Discipline check.

I like this. You could, rather than up the Force Pip cost make a resistance roll against silhouette + number when over silhouette 1. Silhouette 1 objects wouldn't require an opposed roll unless they are Nemesis, this way you don't gimp Force users on the personal scale but for larger objects you make it more difficult.
So Moving 1 sil. 2 object is Difficulty 1 vs the PCs Will and Force Rating (or some other combination), 2 = dif 2, etc. A sol 3 object would be difficulty 2+the number etc.
(A PC, for example, with Will 3 and FR 2 would be YYG)

I think this would be fair.

some great ideas for nerfing "move" here!

To repeat some earlier comments. I have always thought that using Force move/push/throw to harm someone is blatantly a dark side use of the power. Except for maybe a knockdown effect.

But honestly, it he starts villain chucking a lot, SOMEONE in maybe in Black armor, black helmet, and Cape with a red lightsaber is going to wonder who is causing such a disturbance in the force and investigate, hoping to find the stupid farmboy who has his other lightsaber

Slighly side-tracking this thread to mention AT-AT really should have been Silhouette 5, anyway.

Am I correct if I say that u can earn only 2 FR in EotE ? Coz u get one from specialization and another one from last talent ?? Thx.

Yes, 2 FR can be earned in EoE.

OK thx. So if u play only EotE u can't be OP.

Move, depending on how you choose to interpret the rules is still pretty wicked even with FR2.

I've not seen anything mentioned of the balancing factor of needing to succeed at a Discipline check to move objects to attack things with the proverbial AT-AT. Even if you interpret the RAW to mean that +1 FP spent jumps you up to silhouette equal to number of Strength upgrades (which I really do think that's the way it is written), you must still succeed at that check to do any good with it. You must roll enough successes and enough FP. That's not as easy as it sounds.

So, if you maxed out on Strength and Range upgrades, and jumped up to a FR of 2 (which, assuming your player is a complete cheeseball and took the shortest route possible to intentionally annoy everyone around him, would require at least 200 XP)...

1 FP to activate Move

+1 FP to jump up to Silhouette 4

+1 FP to Increase the range.

Note that this does not include the XP cost and odds of also succeeding at a Daunting (4) Discipline check.

I just did 10 test rolls with a FR 2 and a Discipline skill of 2 ability + 2 proficiency. Out of those 10 rolls I only came up with one that produced even one success and enough LS points to fuel the power. Two other rolls produced one success and enough DS points to fuel the power.

I dunno... this sounds like a high XP investment for a relatively low success rate. Who is going to want to take a chance of 1 in 10 while an AT-AT is plodding towards them?

I should also note that f you're not the type of GM who would use the tools at your disposal (allowing them to use DS points without fear), you're missing out on the inherent concepts that balance the powers. Not to mention the fact that if someone does something as flamboyant as throwing an AT-AT at someone they will likely have the entire might of the ISB hunting them down. A considerable portion of the Empire's resources is being devoted to finding characters that can do that sort of thing and wiping them from existence. If you're not factoring in such story-based elements, you're not factoring in the assumed balancing factors of the game. That's not a power that is OP. That is a user that is ignoring vital aspects.

Now, as for simply pushing over an AT-AT... well, same argument above... the Empire would take notice. Aside from that, look at it from a "so what?" perspective. So he can knock over an AT-AT. So what? Looks great and scary, but when you boil it down to what has actually been accomplished... he took out one enemy. If your encounter is derailed by the loss of a single AT-AT... Don't rely so much on brute strength to make your encounters interesting.

Perhaps from a mechanical standpoint Move can be a bit overpowered. But there are a lot of ways to balance it out in session.