It's hard to say if these two are going to work together. Can response of Lord of Morthond trigger before Gandalf loses his printed leadershit icon?

Looks like yes. Response will activate on the moment when you play a card so that moment Gandalf have Leadership icon. Sound right

Not sure, I consider using that card when I put Gandalf in and Outlands deck, but left it out because I did not think it would work.

My thought was the card could be played because Gandalf will have leadership for that moment, but then he loses leadership, so when you play a non sphere ally the response will not trigger on the card since only 2 of the heroes have leadership since Gandalf will be Neutral again. It seems like the Lord of Morthond is an ongoing effect, that requires each hero to have printed leadership icon, which is different then playing Burning Brand on Gandalf which only requires him to have lore when it is played.

We can speculate on it all day long, but I think I'll just email Caleb this question to make it easier for all of us.

There is one big thing telling me "no". Gandalf has Leadership "when playing" and the Lord of Morthonde says "after you play". At the point that you would trigger the response, the card no longer has the ability.

There is one big thing telling me "no". Gandalf has Leadership "when playing" and the Lord of Morthonde says "after you play". At the point that you would trigger the response, the card no longer has the ability.

Yes you have a point but still here a lot of speculation so better as designers

I think not. Big problem with the wording. Each hero must have a PRINTED leadership icon. Gandalf has none. That's my reading of it.

I think not. Big problem with the wording. Each hero must have a PRINTED leadership icon. Gandalf has none. That's my reading of it.

Please read the card again. It's says gandalf is considered to have the printed resource icon. Keyword: printed. It's written right on the **** card.

I agree biggest issue is resource icon fades once card is played and LOM says after card is played. We will await Caleb's gospel on this.

You're right. My bad.

This is a strange precedent to me. I don't much like the idea of adding a printed resource icon to a hero through card text. That essentially destroys the significance of the word printed. Oh well. It's just a game.

It does not adds anything, it treats the hero like if he had this icon.

Looks like yes. Response will activate on the moment when you play a card so that moment Gandalf have Leadership icon. Sound right

But only 'when a playing a card this way'... then Gandalf gain the printed icon. So only when Gandalf play cards of the top deck. It is not so over-powered.

Hi Harry,
If you are using Gandalf and two leadership heroes, all three of your heroes would be considered to have the printed leadership icon when you play a card from the top of your deck. This would allow you to play cards like Strength of Arms from the top of your deck. However, Gandalf’s ability is only active while you are playing that card. As soon as that card is played he reverts to neutral status. Since Lord of Morthond’s response effect triggers “After you play…” Gandalf would already have lost the printed leadership icon by that time and you would not be able to use it to draw a card.
Cheers,
Caleb

Good to know, thanks.

Presumably the same ruling would apply to Knight of Minas Tirith as well.

Yeah. Sadly...

To be honest is a bit complicated ....... Response is response actually, it happen fast/ Anyway one more expiation which need to be keep in mind......

You can combine it with Desperate Alliance...this card should work nice with Gandalf anyway.

(once per phase [per player!!!])

Well, for me it's quite logic.

When is When, and After is After. End of the story.

Good to know, thanks.

Presumably the same ruling would apply to Knight of Minas Tirith as well.

I think you might be able to use the Knights of Minas Tirith Response.

It's a question of when the card (Knights) gains it's response, and when it loses it - the implication is that if you have three tactics heroes it gains this response all the time, however the response is only one use (unlike Lord of Morthond).

So Lord of Mothrond does gain it's response as you play it with Gandalf, but by the time you would ever use it it's gone again. However if Knights of Minias Tirith has it's response as you play it - you might be able to use its response instantly (as it's part of the card coming into play in this case).

Although it may still not work as well (depending on how they want to determine resolution order ), I don't think the ruling on Lord of Mothrond necessarily applies.

Good to know, thanks.

Presumably the same ruling would apply to Knight of Minas Tirith as well.

I think you might be able to use the Knights of Minas Tirith Response.

It's a question of when the card (Knights) gains it's response, and when it loses it - the implication is that if you have three tactics heroes it gains this response all the time, however the response is only one use (unlike Lord of Morthond).

So Lord of Mothrond does gain it's response as you play it with Gandalf, but by the time you would ever use it it's gone again. However if Knights of Minias Tirith has it's response as you play it - you might be able to use its response instantly (as it's part of the card coming into play in this case).

Although it may still not work as well (depending on how they want to determine resolution order ), I don't think the ruling on Lord of Mothrond necessarily applies.

I think the original Lord of Morthond question was when you play a non-Leadership ally off the top of your deck using Gandalf. He gains all four resource icons when playing the card, so he would have Leadership whilst the ally was played.

On a side note, does anyone else think the wording on Gandalf is slightly odd? Why do they give him all four icons when, with the current pool, he wouldn't benefit from any other than the sphere of the card being played. I can only think that they didn't want Gandalf paying for Baggins or Fellowship cards, and this was the most concise wording they could come up with. EDIT: Or there's some non-spoiled card for The Road Darkens that makes use of it.

Good to know, thanks.

Presumably the same ruling would apply to Knight of Minas Tirith as well.

I think you might be able to use the Knights of Minas Tirith Response.

It's a question of when the card (Knights) gains it's response, and when it loses it - the implication is that if you have three tactics heroes it gains this response all the time, however the response is only one use (unlike Lord of Morthond).

So Lord of Mothrond does gain it's response as you play it with Gandalf, but by the time you would ever use it it's gone again. However if Knights of Minias Tirith has it's response as you play it - you might be able to use its response instantly (as it's part of the card coming into play in this case).

Although it may still not work as well (depending on how they want to determine resolution order ), I don't think the ruling on Lord of Mothrond necessarily applies.

Passive effect...

If it was written, "when you play KoMT, it gains «bla bla» permanently if blabla", then yes.

But passive effect comes and goes. So big no for KoMT.

I don't even know how you manage to have two different conclusion with the exact same wording on both cards... you might have invert the passive and response condition.

Well, we both agree that at the time you play Knights of Minas Tirith you have 3 tactics icons. We also both agree that after the resolution of playing it you don't.

So it could be:

Play knights from top of your deck.
Gandalf has tactics icon.
Knights enters play.
Gandalf loses tactics icon.
Now trigger the response on knights (it fails).

However it could be:

Play knights from top of your deck.
Gandalf has tactics icon.
Knights enters play (it's response is legally declared at this time as part of the enters play resolution).
Gandalf Loses tactics icons.

I think it's probably the first too, but it isn't exactly the same as Lord of Mothrond (which is an outside card triggering after Knights enters play).

I also think it would have bee better if it was the second - that is, responses can be declared as a card enters play (before it's finished entering play). Because that opens up more design space - although I suppose they could use "as it enters play" to create that design space if they really want a distinction.