Been playing around a bit with the Knight level recommendations for characters that aren't using lightsabers, and I'm finding that in many cases, starting out with 10K credits leaves me with characters that have anywhere from a couple to several thousand credits left over, even if using those rules for EotE or AoR characters.

While the 10K does cover the cost of a lightsaber, I think it hands over too much money to other character types that can severely tip the balance of the game, particularly for mixed groups that make use of EotE or AoR material.

I wonder if the options should be "lightsaber or 5K extra credits" instead. While the lightsaber costs more, it's a set item without much wiggle room as opposed to the haul that a bunch of bonus credits could provide.

It depends. For a hired gun merc 10k is a gun for every occasion and some change, for a smuggler pilot with a ride in need of pimping 10k is gonna go fast...

I would suggest that if multiple characters all picked the credits, they would invest the total left over into modifications for their ship, or something like that.

I think its weirder actually that 10k is slightly more than the Basic Lightsaber costs (9,300), so technically starting with the 10k lets you buy a lightsaber + have 700 credits left over, unless you implement a rule to prevent their purchase directly (and considering most of the cost is the crystal, it seems odd, though I suppose they are outlawed by the Empire, or at least that is the implication).

The Talisman of Iron Fists is clearly intended as a lightsaber alternative, for the guy who always plays a monk in any game. starting with less than 10,000c would deny a knight from starting with this artefact.

I don't see why there is a need to start with 10k in credits at all. It is not like the Jedi Knight spent that amount to get his lightsaber in the first place. He spent 300 credits for the parts to make the hilt and then he traveled to one of the Jedi controlled planets and was guided by the force to find his crystal.

I don't see why there is a need to start with 10k in credits at all. It is not like the Jedi Knight spent that amount to get his lightsaber in the first place. He spent 300 credits for the parts to make the hilt and then he traveled to one of the Jedi controlled planets and was guided by the force to find his crystal.

Yeah, but it's not about the Jedi. Imagine you're playing a clone wars campaign, you pick the Jedi, your pal picks the Soldier:Commando so he can be an ARC trooper.

Laminate Armor: Vacc sealed, helmet comlink, Optics: 5,450c

2 Blaster Pistols: 800c

2 Frag grenades: 100c

Vibroknife: 250c

Blaster Rifle with Foregrip, telescopic sight, sling: 1,500c

Loadbearing gear, utility belt, 4 stimpacks, climbing gear, electrobinos, glow rod, 2 extra reloads, binders: 610c

Total: 8710c

I think at "knight" level I'd more go for the "what do we have" approach and talk through it with my players or my GM, get the background right. I mean the smuggler might start with a ship, that's 80 or 100k, sure shared between him and 1 or 2 other players, but still. Same with the 2 person pr Y-Wing, that's a 40k per person asset. 10k credits is a lot and then at the same time it's almost nothing.

I think at "knight" level I'd more go for the "what do we have" approach and talk through it with my players or my GM, get the background right. I mean the smuggler might start with a ship, that's 80 or 100k, sure shared between him and 1 or 2 other players, but still. Same with the 2 person pr Y-Wing, that's a 40k per person asset. 10k credits is a lot and then at the same time it's almost nothing.

I'm inclined to agree, and will likely be disregarding the 10K credits suggestion if/when I run any games starting at Knight level.

I don't see why there is a need to start with 10k in credits at all. It is not like the Jedi Knight spent that amount to get his lightsaber in the first place. He spent 300 credits for the parts to make the hilt and then he traveled to one of the Jedi controlled planets and was guided by the force to find his crystal.

Yeah, but it's not about the Jedi. Imagine you're playing a clone wars campaign, you pick the Jedi, your pal picks the Soldier:Commando so he can be an ARC trooper.

Laminate Armor: Vacc sealed, helmet comlink, Optics: 5,450c

2 Blaster Pistols: 800c

2 Frag grenades: 100c

Vibroknife: 250c

Blaster Rifle with Foregrip, telescopic sight, sling: 1,500c

Loadbearing gear, utility belt, 4 stimpacks, climbing gear, electrobinos, glow rod, 2 extra reloads, binders: 610c

Total: 8710c

Ghostofman's sample character pretty well illustrates my concern. At this point, the Soldier/Commando has tricked out so much of his gear that there's really not anything more he'd need other than occasionally restocking on grenades and stimpacks (though for the record, I think you only need to by extra reloads once to be able to remove the "out of ammo" effect of a Despair; at least that's how I've been playing it).

Yeah, a party with a ship could dump some of their money into upgrading it, but not every group is going to select a ship as their group resource.

With EotE and AoR operating on the assumption that characters are generally not going to be swimming in vast piles of credits (unless they're a Quartermaster or Entreprenuer with maxed ranks in Sound Investments), it just feels off that Knight level PCs would be handed this huge stack of credits and told "do as you will," particularly if the group contains PCs that aren't Force users.

If force users are a member of an organization of any sort, I imagine that organization will have some say about how they spend their credits. This might take the form of a tithe (player has money but must contribute to the organization), an allowance (the organization has the money and doles it out as it sees fit), or even an expense account requiring receipts!

I would personally play it by ear and hand out credits only when appropriate to the story. A large fixed number of starting credits doesn't sit well with me. I don't want my games to focus on resource management (credits, blaster shots, starship fuel)... too much like life. Now, if needing enough credits to buy starship fuel to get off planet convinces characters to follow some dangerous side story I have planned, then I'm all for it

I don't see why there is a need to start with 10k in credits at all. It is not like the Jedi Knight spent that amount to get his lightsaber in the first place. He spent 300 credits for the parts to make the hilt and then he traveled to one of the Jedi controlled planets and was guided by the force to find his crystal.

Yeah, but it's not about the Jedi. Imagine you're playing a clone wars campaign, you pick the Jedi, your pal picks the Soldier:Commando so he can be an ARC trooper.

Laminate Armor: Vacc sealed, helmet comlink, Optics: 5,450c

2 Blaster Pistols: 800c

2 Frag grenades: 100c

Vibroknife: 250c

Blaster Rifle with Foregrip, telescopic sight, sling: 1,500c

Loadbearing gear, utility belt, 4 stimpacks, climbing gear, electrobinos, glow rod, 2 extra reloads, binders: 610c

Total: 8710c

Ghostofman's sample character pretty well illustrates my concern. At this point, the Soldier/Commando has tricked out so much of his gear that there's really not anything more he'd need other than occasionally restocking on grenades and stimpacks (though for the record, I think you only need to by extra reloads once to be able to remove the "out of ammo" effect of a Despair; at least that's how I've been playing it).

Yeah, a party with a ship could dump some of their money into upgrading it, but not every group is going to select a ship as their group resource.

With EotE and AoR operating on the assumption that characters are generally not going to be swimming in vast piles of credits (unless they're a Quartermaster or Entreprenuer with maxed ranks in Sound Investments), it just feels off that Knight level PCs would be handed this huge stack of credits and told "do as you will," particularly if the group contains PCs that aren't Force users.

Well I think this needs to be kicked around some more, and is seriously what the open beta is for.

On the one hand you're not wholly wrong; a character that isn't from F&D, or that is but ignores force powers and lightsabers, preferring to stick to just their talent tree, is going to have the ability to buy a lot of kit, almost to the point where he won't have to get anything ever again except for very mission specific items...

On the other (and continuing the ARC Trooper example) in combat that Breach on the saber is a huge boon, so all that gear starts to balance out a little in the ability to pick the right weapon for the job (you can only use one [ok two] weapon at a time there chummer). I would like a little more input on how it would compare to a non-combat character and situation though, I'm drawing a bit of a blank on that right now.

In some cases there might be reasonable alternatives, a EotE character can go nuts with the obligation as long as he's the only one in the group with obligation...

Also, just something else that pops in there... if lightsaber crystals are punchable purchasable in your campaign taking care of the non-saber-swingers early will make that purchase down the road easier for the rest of the group to swallow...

Still it's the Pilot guy that really bugs me... when nearly every attachment for a vehicle is 3,000c and up 10k is nothing...

Would it be too much against the grain of the overall system to say something like "A character gets a lightsaber, or +2000c they can spend on starting equipment or keep. The group gets 20,000c to be spent modifying their ship, or base, if they have one. Any credits from this allotment that are not spent are lost."

I don't see why there is a need to start with 10k in credits at all. It is not like the Jedi Knight spent that amount to get his lightsaber in the first place. He spent 300 credits for the parts to make the hilt and then he traveled to one of the Jedi controlled planets and was guided by the force to find his crystal.

Yeah, but it's not about the Jedi. Imagine you're playing a clone wars campaign, you pick the Jedi, your pal picks the Soldier:Commando so he can be an ARC trooper.

Laminate Armor: Vacc sealed, helmet comlink, Optics: 5,450c

2 Blaster Pistols: 800c

2 Frag grenades: 100c

Vibroknife: 250c

Blaster Rifle with Foregrip, telescopic sight, sling: 1,500c

Loadbearing gear, utility belt, 4 stimpacks, climbing gear, electrobinos, glow rod, 2 extra reloads, binders: 610c

Total: 8710c

Ghostofman's sample character pretty well illustrates my concern. At this point, the Soldier/Commando has tricked out so much of his gear that there's really not anything more he'd need other than occasionally restocking on grenades and stimpacks (though for the record, I think you only need to by extra reloads once to be able to remove the "out of ammo" effect of a Despair; at least that's how I've been playing it).

Yeah, a party with a ship could dump some of their money into upgrading it, but not every group is going to select a ship as their group resource.

With EotE and AoR operating on the assumption that characters are generally not going to be swimming in vast piles of credits (unless they're a Quartermaster or Entreprenuer with maxed ranks in Sound Investments), it just feels off that Knight level PCs would be handed this huge stack of credits and told "do as you will," particularly if the group contains PCs that aren't Force users.

Well I think this needs to be kicked around some more, and is seriously what the open beta is for.

On the one hand you're not wholly wrong; a character that isn't from F&D, or that is but ignores force powers and lightsabers, preferring to stick to just their talent tree, is going to have the ability to buy a lot of kit, almost to the point where he won't have to get anything ever again except for very mission specific items...

On the other (and continuing the ARC Trooper example) in combat that Breach on the saber is a huge boon, so all that gear starts to balance out a little in the ability to pick the right weapon for the job (you can only use one [ok two] weapon at a time there chummer). I would like a little more input on how it would compare to a non-combat character and situation though, I'm drawing a bit of a blank on that right now.

In some cases there might be reasonable alternatives, a EotE character can go nuts with the obligation as long as he's the only one in the group with obligation...

Also, just something else that pops in there... if lightsaber crystals are punchable purchasable in your campaign taking care of the non-saber-swingers early will make that purchase down the road easier for the rest of the group to swallow...

Still it's the Pilot guy that really bugs me... when nearly every attachment for a vehicle is 3,000c and up 10k is nothing...

Would it be too much against the grain of the overall system to say something like "A character gets a lightsaber, or +2000c they can spend on starting equipment or keep. The group gets 20,000c to be spent modifying their ship, or base, if they have one. Any credits from this allotment that are not spent are lost."

I do like this - though I worry about the random assortment of other gear a 'knight' level would have picked up - spare clothes, glowrod, comlink, etc. Say, 500cr and a lightsaber versus 2500cr for the others?

Were it me, I might just sit with each player and ask him. "Jimmy's character will be getting a Lightsaber. What major piece of gear is missing to make your character complete as far as equipment is concerned?"

Yeah, some pieces of gear is going to be worth more than others, but if a blanket 10k credits is not the direction you want to go with your players, it's best just to be honest and make sure everyone is cool with it.

Would it be too much against the grain of the overall system to say something like "A character gets a lightsaber, or +2000c they can spend on starting equipment or keep. The group gets 20,000c to be spent modifying their ship, or base, if they have one. Any credits from this allotment that are not spent are lost."

I do like this - though I worry about the random assortment of other gear a 'knight' level would have picked up - spare clothes, glowrod, comlink, etc. Say, 500cr and a lightsaber versus 2500cr for the others?

The thing I gotta ask though... Are Jedi characters typically shown carrying much more then a lightsaber, comlink, and a few other odds and ends?

Would it be too much against the grain of the overall system to say something like "A character gets a lightsaber, or +2000c they can spend on starting equipment or keep. The group gets 20,000c to be spent modifying their ship, or base, if they have one. Any credits from this allotment that are not spent are lost."

I do like this - though I worry about the random assortment of other gear a 'knight' level would have picked up - spare clothes, glowrod, comlink, etc. Say, 500cr and a lightsaber versus 2500cr for the others?

The thing I gotta ask though... Are Jedi characters typically shown carrying much more then a lightsaber, comlink, and a few other odds and ends?

PT Jedi usually had an assortment of small gear, usually things like field rations and emergency equipment - whether an underwater breathing apparatus or synthrope dispenser. A lot of it was on that little utility belt the OR Jedi tended to wear.