Here to necro, but does the Black and Decker one actually project lines if you're holding it over the table? I'm about to order that Amazon for one day shipping if it does (seeing as local Harbor Freight is out of the other one and I don't like waiting).

Army Painter offers their own version now. Named (appropriately) "Target Lock".

http://usshop.thearmypainter.com/products.php?ProductGroupId=5

Here to necro, but does the Black and Decker one actually project lines if you're holding it over the table? I'm about to order that Amazon for one day shipping if it does (seeing as local Harbor Freight is out of the other one and I don't like waiting).

Yes it does

Australian players should take note that laser products are restricted to 1MW power or less.

I bought this one off Ebay from China and it is serving me well, but it is not small. 10cm long, 5cm high and wide, but it is cheap. Being cheap it is also made of crap plastic and will probably break easily if dropped.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Laser-Level-Guide-Leveler-Straight-Project-Line-Leveler-W-Tripod-Level-Tool-/191533899542?hash=item2c984f5f16

I got a line projector of Amazon £20 it makes life much easier when checking arcs.

Has anyone made an attachment for a model base that projects two lasers to represent the arc on a fighter? Basically it would go on the base where the card would be, which could sit on top of the laser projector.

I have tried hand-held ones and found ultimately they are not accurate. I have a ryobi one that is the same idea as the black and decker one above. The ability to set it on the table for steady measurement is key. It actually changes the color of the arc on the ships' tile to yellow when it is perfectly aligned.

My very bright green laser is a combo of this

http://www.amazon.com/AixiZ-Cross-Standard-12x30mm-Modules/dp/B004RPNO2U

and this

http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/5a47/?srp=2

and some electrical tape.

Wow, there are some just awful reasons people give for not liking lasers in a Star Wars game of all things...

"Uh, its.. uh... It's so shaky... Laser accuracy isn't accurate enough..."

As a land surveyor, I find some people's lack of faith in lasers disturbing...

Army painter laser costs about £6, and it's a great little tool. Thoroughly recommend them.

I guy I play with got one for $10-15 at Harbor Freight, and I'm considering getting one myself. It's really nice for checking arcs when there are multiple models nearby, and it's faster than the range ruler in a lot of cases.

Plus it looks cool when it passes over the clear bases and peg stands.

I have tried hand-held ones and found ultimately they are not accurate. I have a ryobi one that is the same idea as the black and decker one above. The ability to set it on the table for steady measurement is key. It actually changes the color of the arc on the ships' tile to yellow when it is perfectly aligned.

Can you link to the one you have?

I have the harbor freight special for $6, but Id like one I can place on the table.

Wow, there are some just awful reasons people give for not liking lasers in a Star Wars game of all things...

"Uh, its.. uh... It's so shaky... Laser accuracy isn't accurate enough..."

As a land surveyor, I find some people's lack of faith in lasers disturbing...

It is great for a quick measurement, but it is less accurate than lining up a ruler with a hard edge. At least for the cheap harbor freight laser that I have, there is a "bloom" that creates some ambiguity as to the precise location of the laser line's edge. I find the laser to be inaccurate for measuring potential gaps of < 2mm, which seem to come up frequently in actual play.

As far as etiquette goes, is it rude to to check arcs before boosting/barrel rolling to aid in dodging them?

As far as etiquette goes, is it rude to to check arcs before boosting/barrel rolling to aid in dodging them?

It is technically illegal. You can only check arcs during the combat phase, and only for the ship that you are currently attacking with (or checking the defender's arc in case something like AutoThrusters might trigger).

If you live in Australia and having trouble finding a laser tool I was able to pick the black and decker one up from this site

As far as etiquette goes, is it rude to to check arcs before boosting/barrel rolling to aid in dodging them?

It is technically illegal. You can only check arcs during the combat phase, and only for the ship that you are currently attacking with (or checking the defender's arc in case something like AutoThrusters might trigger).

You think the cops take drug dealing seriously you haven't seen them respond to you checking arcs, they don't give warnings either just slam that flashbang through the window and come in shooting.

If only it were just against the rules you could get away with a verbal warning but the corrupt politicians took lobbyist money...

Since this thread doesn't have enough luddite curmudgeons in it, I feel I have to step in just to spice it up a bit.

I've never seen a person use a laser pointer/laser level in a tabletop game in a way that didn't make me bristle. It's usually that the laser meister is openly (sometimes rudely) doubtful of the other player's ability to measure a straight line. For 90% of the shots in this game, a reasonable person can determine whether it's in or out of arc in half a second or so. For that small percentage of close calls, the core set provides every tool necessary for extending a ship's firing arc to the target.

For those very, very close shots where it just can't be definitively determined by the human eye, my friends and I "50/50" it by rolling a red die: blank or focus, it's out of arc. Hit or crit, it's in arc. Laser pointers add absolutely nothing when it comes to determining shots that hit or miss by micrometers, because human error will never be ruled out, and pretending otherwise is just silly and oftentimes obstinate behavior. It's reasonable to assume that the core set has provided every tool necessary to achieve the level of accuracy the game designers deem acceptable.

Since this thread doesn't have enough luddite curmudgeons in it, I feel I have to step in just to spice it up a bit.

I've never seen a person use a laser pointer/laser level in a tabletop game in a way that didn't make me bristle. It's usually that the laser meister is openly (sometimes rudely) doubtful of the other player's ability to measure a straight line. For 90% of the shots in this game, a reasonable person can determine whether it's in or out of arc in half a second or so. For that small percentage of close calls, the core set provides every tool necessary for extending a ship's firing arc to the target.

For those very, very close shots where it just can't be definitively determined by the human eye, my friends and I "50/50" it by rolling a red die: blank or focus, it's out of arc. Hit or crit, it's in arc. Laser pointers add absolutely nothing when it comes to determining shots that hit or miss by micrometers, because human error will never be ruled out, and pretending otherwise is just silly and oftentimes obstinate behavior. It's reasonable to assume that the core set has provided every tool necessary to achieve the level of accuracy the game designers deem acceptable.

I've been playing this game for about 5-weeks and have attended 1 tournament. In that time i have seen people bending range rulers to their advantage, shunting models to get them into los, and even insisting I dont even check an arc that i was clearly not in.

I reserve my right to be doubtful

Well, most arcs are easy enough to eyeball it or simply use the range ruler anyway.

It would only be if there were models in the way obstructing the use of a range ruler or a really difficult close call that a laser would be particularly useful. It does come up.

And of course, if it's your opponent attacking, the sporting and polite thing to do would be to offer to let them use the laser to check themselves.

After all, who wouldn't want to play with a laser?

Everyone playing with lasers.

We are the Tournament. Lower your points, and surrender your games. We will add your distinctive Gunner and Darth Vader cards to our own. Your arc-haggling, is futile.

It's usually that the laser meister is openly (sometimes rudely) doubtful of the other player's ability to measure a straight line.

The number of times I see people (myself included) assume a shot is in, only to find that it's out by 3-5mm when they actually check, leads me to think the doubt is quite well-founded.

Also, your lack of logic is amusing. You later claim that the fact the laser can't rule out human error means we shouldn't use it, but your alternative is to rely more heavily on the people making those human errors. How does that work?

Laser pointers add absolutely nothing when it comes to determining shots that hit or miss by micrometers, because human error will never be ruled out, and pretending otherwise is just silly and oftentimes obstinate behavior.

Of course it won't rule out human error. But it can reduce human error, most notable by getting into places that a range ruler can't.

Just because a tool can't do everything doesn't mean we can't use it for something.

I'll put it another way. I've never seen a laser used in a way that didn't seem in some way condescending, or even authoritarian. The person with the laser, in my experience, is much more likely to view his measurement as paramount in the misguided belief that it is necessarily more accurate, when in fact the accuracy of the tool may be of much greater variance than what FFG has already provided.

More than anything, since this is a social game I think it's important that players don't put each other on the defensive with their tableside actions. DR4CO, you'll understand what I'm saying since your comment that my "lack of logic is amusing" was intended to do just that, to put me on the defensive. Now imagine that we're in the middle of a game of x-wing; it's a little frostier than before, right?

I'm not saying people that want to shouldn't use their laser pointers, I'm just encouraging people to be judicious in the frequency and manner in which they're used.

As you say, that's a problem with the player and not the tool (one of which this thread has tempted me into ordering last night).

If there's doubt about arc on something I see no reason at all why a friendly suggestion of "Shall we check it with the laser?" should cause an issue at all.

I've seen enough bumps and nudges both from myself and my opponents to know that at least having the option to measure this way will be worthwhile.

If you live in Australia and having trouble finding a laser tool I was able to pick the black and decker one up from this site

Super Cheap Auto have a generic SCA branded one for $15.

I'll put it another way. I've never seen a laser used in a way that didn't seem in some way condescending, or even authoritarian. The person with the laser, in my experience, is much more likely to view his measurement as paramount in the misguided belief that it is necessarily more accurate, when in fact the accuracy of the tool may be of much greater variance than what FFG has already provided.

More than anything, since this is a social game I think it's important that players don't put each other on the defensive with their tableside actions. DR4CO, you'll understand what I'm saying since your comment that my "lack of logic is amusing" was intended to do just that, to put me on the defensive. Now imagine that we're in the middle of a game of x-wing; it's a little frostier than before, right?

I'm not saying people that want to shouldn't use their laser pointers, I'm just encouraging people to be judicious in the frequency and manner in which they're used.

I mean, there's gonna be plenty of variance in taking out a cardboard range ruler that can also be warped through use. Lasers aren't perfectly accurate, but they're a lot less prone to human error than getting out the range ruler.

I also find it bizarre that you would get offended by a laser measurement. It takes about five seconds. No one's accusing anyone of anything. It's just a way to see the situation better.