As written, a darksider imposes his will more strongly with the battle meditation power, reflected in the rules as a penalty to willpower. However, I dont see a corrosponding benifit.

The MAstery upgrade implies it is usable on people who would resist- but as written, it can only affect friendly characters.

Perhaps the darkside version can expand to unwilling puppets? So it can target any friend or foe, and impose a Advantage or Complication with each force point, and drains Willpower if you use the Dark side... perhaps draining more Willpower with more darkside pips?

Suggested changes:

Basic Power: Remove the word "Friendly" from "Engaged friendly targets"

Add "If the force user spent any Drkside on this check, reduce the targets willpower by 1 (to a miimum of 1), and you may choose to inflict Complications instead of Advntage "

Mastery: Add to "If the user spent darkside..." "The user may spend 2 Forcepoints per setback they wish to add to this check."

Battle Meditation isn't mind control (that's more the realm of Influence), but instead enhances the coordinated efforts of a group. Palpatine (who was said to use this to enhance Imperial effectiveness according to the Thrawn Trilogy) didn't use it on Rebel troops, but was just the sort of guy to mentally goad his troops into taking actions in battle they might otherwise avoid, particularly if they've only got a Willpower of 2 and no ranks in Discipline, making it harder for them to make that Easy check to disregard a blatantly suicidal directive from the Emperor.

It's been made pretty clear that Battle Meditation only works on those willing to subordinate themselves to it. Yoda was believed to have used it during the Clone Wars to better coordinate the Clone Troopers and other warriors under his command, but did so with their approval, likely by explaining beforehand that he could use the Force to improve their efforts and make victory more likely. Since he's not the type to resort to using dark side pips to generate Force points, that means that his side's going to enjoy some pretty hefty bonuses when squaring off against the Separatist's battle droid forces. The Emperor was much more insidious about it, and would probably have included some form of mental conditioning in his troops so that they'd (at least subconsciously) accept a mysterious influence driving them forward in battle.

It's been awhile since I read The Last Command... wasnt there something with Joruus C'bath and Mara Jade?

For that matter, Mara Jade's compulsion to kill Luke in that trilogy was almost certantly battlemeditation related.

But my point remains- as it stands, a darkside force user using battle meditation weakens his own allies for no actual benefit. What should a darksider GAIN from overwelming his allies willpower?

It's been awhile since I read The Last Command... wasnt there something with Joruus C'bath and Mara Jade?

For that matter, Mara Jade's compulsion to kill Luke in that trilogy was almost certantly battlemeditation related.

Re-read the Influence power. That covers "mind control" in making people believe something different. It's made pretty clear that Battle Meditation isn't mind control no matter how much you want it to be.

In the case of Mara, the Emperor's "last command" was really more of a plot device than something that needs to be mechanically replicated, same with Joruus and his mental reprogramming of that one Imperial officer. If I were to use an existing Force power, Influence (which covers screwing with people's minds and memories) is a far more appropriate choice.

As you say.

My point remains that a darksider weakens his teammates with no benifit to himself. He should gain some kind of benifit.

My issue with the Dark Side version of Battle Meditation is that it's a bit too weak. Even if you drive someone's Willpower down to 1, that's still a fairly even check, and if you're dealing with military types or the like, they will probably have a couple of ranks in Discipline, making it even less likely to succeed.

The best example of this effect in the books comes in the battle between Darth Caedus and Admiral Niathal at Fondor, where Caedus uses exactly this power to drive the starship commanders under him to engage in more brutal behavior. I'd be surprised if some of those captains didn't have at least 3 or 4 ranks in Discipline.

The base difficulty needs to be higher, or it needs to be an opposed Discipline vs. Discipline check, or the power should allow for the user to spend Force points to increase the difficulty of the check to resist. This is all keeping in mind that affected parties are semi-willing participants.

In the Bane novels, it describes Lord Kaan using a darkside version of Battle Mediation to make the enemy forces sluggish and slow to react to changes within the battle. Perhaps in the Mastery level give the User the ability to generate a number of Threats equal to the pips generated to use against the enemy.

I like the idea of Battle Meditation, but I am not a fan of the execution. If I was to simulate any given instance of this power, I would be unable to under the current rules.

I understand that the rules should not reflect the game in every instance, but Battle Meditation was meant to be used to bolster large scale forces (or demoralize them), and that is impossible under these rules.

I like the idea of Battle Meditation, but I am not a fan of the execution. If I was to simulate any given instance of this power, I would be unable to under the current rules.

I understand that the rules should not reflect the game in every instance, but Battle Meditation was meant to be used to bolster large scale forces (or demoralize them), and that is impossible under these rules.

Well, the bolstering of large scale forces is really more of a plot element, and even then something done by very powerful Jedi Masters or Sith Lords, things that the PCs most certainly are not.

I like the idea of Battle Meditation, but I am not a fan of the execution. If I was to simulate any given instance of this power, I would be unable to under the current rules.

I understand that the rules should not reflect the game in every instance, but Battle Meditation was meant to be used to bolster large scale forces (or demoralize them), and that is impossible under these rules.

Not entirely impossible. As the rules stand now, if you have a good Presence (say 4), and purchase all of the Magnitude and Range upgrades, and have a high Force Rating, you could conceivably affect a lot of people at a pretty long range.

The way I look at increasing range is Engaged-->Short-->Medium-->Long-->Extreme-->Starship Close, then you need to go Engaged-->Starship Close to get to Starship Medium, etc... So, 5 steps from Engaged to Starship Close, 5 more steps to Starship Medium, etc... So, to get Long Range at Starship scale, you'd need to activate your maxed Range Upgrades 5 times (I think), which is doable (albeit rare) on a FR 3 character. Next, you could, say, activate your Magnitude Upgrades 3 times to affect 48 people (4 PRE x 4 Magntitude x 3). Base power + upgrades is 9 Force pips required, which can be done on a very lucky roll with a FR of 4 and the One With The Universe talent. Personally, I'd rate someone like Palpatine or Darth Caedus at a FR of somewhere from 5-7. And, they could always just keep trying to broaden their effect until they get that lucky roll, since they only need to commit 3 dice after achieving the desired result to keep it going.

Or, use a Destiny point to get the much broader effect.