OK, grabbed the F&D Beta at GenCon. I generally like it (uncertain about the general balance of Force Users, but we'll get to that later).

Consider the usual force shenanigans used by pretty much all Jedi in all movies of pushing an opponent to the ground or more often onto other adversaries ( cue Obi-Wan smashing battle droids on other battle droids )

So how does that work?

- Can non-Force Sensitive opponents resist? Do they need the Move power?

- Does "the thrown" take damage? How much?

- Do opponents on the receiving end? More if "the thrown guy" is Silhouette>1?

- At what range does he end up?

- Is he knocked prone?

- Do you need "Magnitude" to force push someone onto other targets?

Off the cuff, I figured that it would need the "can do damage" Control upgrade, and be a resisted (Discipline VS Discipline) roll with a force dice, and you have to both succeed and generate enough Force Points to succeed. It would do 10 damage on "the thrown" and Sil x 10 on targets.

What are your ideas on the subject?

Don't have the book, so no answers, I'd also like to see someone lay out the mechanics of "force slam" or what have you...they use it a lot. Windu destroys a full squad of droids including a couple of droidekas, and even Ahsoka (on Onderon) lays down a wave (but they aren't destroyed).

- Can non-Force Sensitive opponents resist? Do they need the Move power?

Both Ventress and Grevious dig their lightsabers into the ground to prevent being pushed too far, and a Trandoshan does it as well using his claws, so there must be some negative dice that generate threats at work here.

So how does that work?

- Can non-Force Sensitive opponents resist? Do they need the Move power?

- Does "the thrown" take damage? How much?

- Do opponents on the receiving end? More if "the thrown guy" is Silhouette>1?

- At what range does he end up?

- Is he knocked prone?

- Do you need "Magnitude" to force push someone onto other targets?

Off the cuff, I figured that it would need the "can do damage" Control upgrade, and be a resisted (Discipline VS Discipline) roll with a force dice, and you have to both succeed and generate enough Force Points to succeed. It would do 10 damage on "the thrown" and Sil x 10 on targets.

What are your ideas on the subject?

'Move' is the same across all three games, isn't it?

I use Sil x 10 on targets and the people who get hit ('Stormtrooper skittles' is a popular pastime; Move is a minion killer really)

You'd need the upgrades for precision and numbers, obviously. And the intent to hurt; you can just Move someone without hurling them into a wall at terminal velocity if you want to restrain them.

I tend not to allow 'saving throws' as long as the Force/Discipline check is made. If someone rolls well enough to launch an ATAT to extreme range upwards, it's going to be scrap metal when it hits the ground.

Ok, I'll answer your questions, but the first thing that needs to be addressed is what you are talking about. In the films "Force Push" usually just shows the target being knocked around, or thrown only about a meter or so. In this case the "Bind" power form F&D can represent this effect in a lot of cases. It even allows some wound and strain to be kicked out, so a sufficicently good roll can allow you to Bind a target (usually a weak minion) into submission.

Now, if you want to go Palpy push you out the window, or get into the video games and Legends novels, then you're talking Move...

- Can non-Force Sensitive opponents resist? Do they need the Move power?

Break out box, on Pg 195 (in my book) "Resisting Force Powers" gives you the option to allow powerful NPCs to use certain skills and abilities to directly resist force powers. It actually gives the example that a character could use Resilience to resist a power that moves them.

- Does "the thrown" take damage? How much?

Typically the opinion is it's just inverting the mechanic for throwing a Sil 1 object at them. Since most characters are Sil 1 that's 10 damage. The exception being if you throw them off something (like pushing a character out of a guard tower or something) in which case you use falling damage. There's also an element that suggests using move to lift a character and drop them, but that's another issue and you'll probably be getting conflict points out of it.

- Do opponents on the receiving end? More if "the thrown guy" is Silhouette>1?

The thrown guy is still an object with a Sil.

- At what range does he end up?

Well the power is limited to moving items that start at short range, but they can end up however far your max range will allow...

- Is he knocked prone?

I'd say this probably is a result of the required Discipline check, that allows you to generate advantage and triumph, so that would be a way to use those.

- Do you need "Magnitude" to force push someone onto other targets?

Probably up to your GM, but I'd say no.

Whip up whatever works for you, because there is a conspicuous lack of guidance by the devs on the issue.

Interesting. Love the comment about Bind.

- Not sure about being knocked around without being knocked down.

-Still not sure if Force Users without Move should be able to resist (With Resilience, presumably).

- Do extra successes inflict extra damage since it's a "ranged attack"?

Whip up whatever works for you, because there is a conspicuous lack of guidance by the devs on the issue.

I figured that's what Betas are for. Up to now Force usage was supposed to be "on the sidelines", but with a full "Force Users enabled" game here, I guess clarifying those situations is going to get a bit of attention.

I suppose they might address it, they did intro some new mechanics/talents during AoR, so it's always possible. Like I said though there is a conspicuous lack of attention to this rather iconic power of Jedi, so I don't know if they have something planned or are just trying to tiptoe past the subject and hope no one notices....

I would definitely allow force users to resist, as part of lightsaber combat in the books traditionalls was stilling their mind to defend against the enemy's force powers. Something as simple as opposed discipline (or discipline vs resilience) + force rolls, attacking character using force as normal, defending character requiring 1 force point to actually defend and the others spent as success/advantage as desired. Extra successes should probably be allowed to cause more damage, as you've produced a stronger, more successful throw. As for falling, maybe an athletics check at the end of the push, starting at hard and increasing difficulty for distance thrown, would be appropriate.

OK, grabbed the F&D Beta at GenCon. I generally like it (uncertain about the general balance of Force Users, but we'll get to that later).

Consider the usual force shenanigans used by pretty much all Jedi in all movies of pushing an opponent to the ground or more often onto other adversaries ( cue Obi-Wan smashing battle droids on other battle droids )

Force throw is just the Move power, used to move the target away from you.

So how does that work?

- Can non-Force Sensitive opponents resist? Do they need the Move power?

Some of them can, yes. See the Resisting Force Power Checks sidebar on page 195.

- Does "the thrown" take damage? How much?

" Resulting impact deals damage to both the target and the object being moved… ilhouette 0 objects deal 5 damage, while other objects deal damage equal to ten times their silhouette ", first Control upgrade, page 210.

- Do opponents on the receiving end? More if "the thrown guy" is Silhouette>1?

See above.

- At what range does he end up?

From short range to short range, unless range upgrades are purchased and used (see Range upgrades, page 210).

- Is he knocked prone?

Not by default, but could easily be done with the proper expenditure of a few or even a .

- Do you need "Magnitude" to force push someone onto other targets?

One other target? No, since the default power is one thrown object, one target, and both suffer damage. If you want to throw them into many targets, yes. But think about throwing one minion into another in a group…you deal damage to the group twice …once for the minion thrown, and a second time to the minion hit.

The above idea of using Bind has some merit, if you're just wanting to move them a bit, and using DS pips can cause unsoakable wounds. The "Immobilized until the end of the user's next turn" could very well represent them being knocked prone and unable to move until they stand up.

It'll do less damage than throw, and it requires FR 2+, whereas Move requires FR 1+, and does more damage. Bind, however, is more reliable, since it doesn't require a ranged attack roll. Bind is more "accurate" and does less damage. In the end, use whichever you think is best for your character.

-EF

I would definitely allow force users to resist, as part of lightsaber combat in the books traditionalls was stilling their mind to defend against the enemy's force powers. Something as simple as opposed discipline (or discipline vs resilience) + force rolls, attacking character using force as normal, defending character requiring 1 force point to actually defend and the others spent as success/advantage as desired. Extra successes should probably be allowed to cause more damage, as you've produced a stronger, more successful throw. As for falling, maybe an athletics check at the end of the push, starting at hard and increasing difficulty for distance thrown, would be appropriate.

Basic resistance for player characters is on the sidebar on page 195. "Advanced" resistance is in the form of the Protect Force power (pages 210-121).

-EF

I see the prequle force slam abilitie being the Move (Control-throw) talent, used on a minion group as single target, to throw at another minion group.

If a squad of 4 batledroids is considered Sillouette 2, throwing them at another squad of 4 battledroids will do 20 points of damage to both squads, enough to take them bth out, assording to my math (4 soak, 4 wounds per droid, single hit = single soak)

I wish this was addressed in some way, even as a sidebar.

Our house rule has had it operating similarly to the rule for thrown objects, but with the combined Force power check being opposed by the targets.

If successful, 1 generated force point will allow an engaged silhouette 1 target to be hit, pushing them to short range, dealing either strain damage (no soak), or regular damage (soak applies) to the target as per their silhouette size, and knocking them prone.

Any extra successes and advantages from the combined roll can be used as well. 1 success can give a silhouette 1 target the Disorient 1 quality, and 1 advantage spent on a disoriented target extends the the effect round. A Triumph can be spent to incapacitate a single target.

I'd say that a Force Push, as in throwing people across the room like Yoda did to Sidious in Ep3 just prior to their big lightsaber fight would be covered under Move, requiring at least 2 Force Points (1 to trigger the base power, 1 to trigger a Strength Upgrade for a Silhouette 1 person) and doing 10+successes damage. Use Magnitude Upgrades to hit more than one target, or Range Upgrades if you want to push the person further away. If you get a few Advantages or a Triumph on your Discipline roll, spend that to say the target is prone upon landing.

My group moved from D6 Star Wars and we already had a "force user" in our group (an escaped Emperor's Hand). We migrated and have been using Move to toss stormtroops around from the start.

As many have mentioned we also used Sil 1 (10 damage). I ruled as the GM that to cause any damage however, they needed that upgrade that allows damage (cannot remember which, do not have book handy now). Basically the we ruled the upgrade translates to speed.

I have the beta also, but have not really looked over all the force powers yet.

Also, thinking of this, except for Minions Groups (which could be considered as a single target with a higher Silhouette), I'd think using to "Link" or "Auto-Fire" (which?) into multiple targets is fair game. Actually, I wonder if Auto-Fire could be the mechanic for throwing more than one victim using the Magnitude upgrades ("Look ma! Stormtrooper machine gun!").

Also: so what's the Critical on a tossed Stormtrooper?

I am hoping it is iconic enough that we will get some actual direction or side bar ideas they've toyed with including an eye to balance issues.