The System obviously pushes players toward the light side with its strain bonuses and such. But am I the only one that thinks there should be a balance of light side/Dark side bonuses vs drawbacks? (i.e. Dark side decreases your strain but increases damage on force powers etc)

I believe that the main idea is a comparative with D6 spirit where when you go Dark Sider you have just two options:

- Redemption

- Game Over and give your char to the master

Off course this seems the general "essence", but you can change it in your games freely. Your "rise damage option" seems a good one [20- Dmg +1; 10- Dmg +2] (Just with "Give Conflict" Powers)

I actually think there should be a non-Force related "bonus" to being dark side. Being light side paragon gives non-Force users some pretty sweet toys: strain increase and a bonus light side destiny point. So if you're not a Force user you still gain some tangible benefits to using the Morality system…but the non-Force users don't get as much for being dark side paragon.

I don't really have any solid ideas right now, I just wanted to throw the idea out there.

-EF

The fact that the dice will generate Darkside points 20% more often isn't enough of a bonus?

Already plenty of benefits:

Greater chance of rolling dark pips.

Use Force powers for attack all you want.

Nothing really compelling a "dark" character to act evil. Can do whatever they like without "worrying" about Conflict. Big hysteresis function on alignment means you won't accidentally slip out of being darkside.

I retract from my proposition XD

DS Pip probabilities are 58,3%. http://maxmahem.net/wp/star-wars-edge-of-the-empire-die-probabilities/

So, considering that the the best attack powers are DS and it's easier to get DS pips, I consider that this is enough "benefits" too.

The fact that the dice will generate Darkside points 20% more often isn't enough of a bonus?

Not if you're not a Force user, no

I'm thinking more for "backwards compatibility" to allow non-Force users to use Morality. As it stands, non-Force users don't get any benefits for being dark side.

Even if it were something simple, like instead of flipping one LS destiny point to DS, just add a DS destiny point. That is beneficial to the group because it adds one more point to the finite pool, but it's immediately negative since the point needs to be used against them first.

-EF

The OPs point was directed at Force users, and since there is nearly a 20% greater chance of generating Dark Side points, Dark Side Force powers are 20% more powerful. Plenty of bonus built in already.

It seems as if FFG is going with the spirit of the films where nobody but Force users really think about the Dark Side. Also, F&D is about Force users, so Morality as it is couples well. Take these two things into account and the Morality bonuses/penalties work fine. If a group wants to explore Morality applying to everyone, that's fine. It's just that it may need to be house-ruled as the base concept isn't for that. My two cents.

I think using Morality for non-Force users is more for narrative than actual game mechanics. I'm putting real thought into using Morality for all of my players, regardless of whether they are FS or not but I'm only planning to use the "bonus" stuff for Force users. The non FU's will simply have a better idea if they are good guys or bad guys.

For example, Malcolm Reynolds would probably have a higher morality than Jayne but neither would really have to worry about strain issues directly related to their morality.

For non-Force users, you could view it as the individual indulging in their darker emotions and desires has taken a toll on them. Maybe they're stressed out of paranoia--fear of reprisal or the law catching up with them--or wracked with subconscious guilt for their atrocities. In any case, the presumable benefit to the low-Morality non-Force-user is that they got to do whatever they wanted to, and they've reaped those benefits.

The game as of now is not really built for playing 'bad guys', note the lack of support for Imperial campaigns in AOR. It's been a pretty blatant design decision.

While I'm pretty sure darkside and imperial splatbooks will be coming in the future (It would be a bad business decision NOT to) right now I don't think there is much intended support structure for being a badguy.

I do not think there should be a mechanical benefit, besides those mentioned above. The Dark Side is quicker and easier because the characters don't need to worry about doing the right thing, can always succeed on a Force Power check by flipping a Destiny point, and can shoot people with lightning.

I think the mechanics of WEG provided incentive for sitting on one or two DS points with the mechanical benefits. It is funny, because looking at the movies alone, the biggest bad hid his Force powers and played the long game rather than running around blasting people.

I do feel like all characters should track their Morality if the system is being used. Whether it mechanically affects them is another thing, but it would provide a barometer for the GM.

I like it as it is, though I haven't fully gotten the hang of it yet.

If I were to introduce further bonuses and penalties, I think the way that I would balance it would be to put the penalties on the Dark Side wielder's team mates. E.g. your allies gain stress points and things like that. This makes the Dark Side mechanically "easier" for the wielder which fits with the temptation and notions of the films ("stronger? no. easier") whilst letting others suffer the consequences. I think this would produce a very effective way of balancing things and representing the consequences of the Dark Side. After all, it's not the Dark Side because it makes you weaker. It's the Dark Side because it's bad for everyone around you.

Can you imagine Darth Vader or Sidious as a team player? No? Nor me. The group dynamics with a Force wielder using the Dark Side occasionally would be great. The other players would naturally get resentful of the Dark Sider, and that would be a restraint on their action when they see the effect on their friends. Darth Vader renounces it because he sees that it will lead to the death of his son. He falls to it because he puts his own needs ahead of others.

The Dark Side is not weaker and shouldn't be balanced by penalties to the character. The Dark Side is ultimately about selfishness and should be balanced by things that reflect that.

The System obviously pushes players toward the light side with its strain bonuses and such. But am I the only one that thinks there should be a balance of light side/Dark side bonuses vs drawbacks? (i.e. Dark side decreases your strain but increases damage on force powers etc)

It's already built in to the force dice.

7 of the 12 sides are dark side. Thus, the dark side is more consistently available.

A light side user will hesitate to use dark side results on the Force die. A dark side user won't blink twice about flipping a Destiny point and eating some strain to use light side pips, therefore the only question for a dark side user is how many pips he rolls.

Sounds like a solid benefit to me.

A light side user will hesitate to use dark side results on the Force die. A dark side user won't blink twice about flipping a Destiny point and eating some strain to use light side pips, therefore the only question for a dark side user is how many pips he rolls.

Sounds like a solid benefit to me.

In addition to this, most of the powers have some pretty heavy bonuses for dark-siders as is. Bind lets you land a crit and increase the crit rating with more points. Harm requires nothing but rolling force dice and lets them deal direct damage (ignoring all soak), which can be upgraded to hit multiple targets and even drain life to the player or revive a player who could have died 10 turns ago in battle. And Unleash lets you just start frying people.

So they may get the short end of the stick in terms of Morality, but in terms of Force Powers and really, anything else that requires rolling Force Dice, there really isn't a shortage of how much they get in terms of overall benefits.

I think Morality is also a great way to track reputation, and can have great narrative effects. With Obligation it was called out: high Obligation, you find it easier to interact with the criminal element but can't buy stuff legitimately; with low Obligation officials will actually be willing to meet with you. High morality, people trust you more; low morality, maybe one's Coercion checks are easier since everyone knows you do bad things, and babies cry when they see you. The Order66 podcast had a great episode (18) about this a while back called "Yooouuuu might be a Darksider".

If they want to add a mechanical benefit I would suggest +1 wound threshold and +2 wound threshold respectively (and remember that they do get to use Darkside Pips which are somewhat more frequent anyways). Wounds don't do a whole lot as a resource like strain but that plays into the evil concept. Just like the Demon Mask! Darksiders always seem to be a bit more "hardy" but I really like the drop in strain. Here is why. If you are trying to be a "good" character and work your way back to the Light Side then you HAVE to use strain to use a Light Side Force Pip. This resource is precious and the more "evil" you are, the bigger a toll that will be. Thus the further down the chart, the harder to go back up it (and what is great is that this actually messes with a player's head. Do I REALLY want to spend more strain, or do I just chance the corruption point? I'll chance it. Wait.. I'm still evil.) This morality system rocks.

How about this.

"A Non force sensitive who becomes a paragon of either light or dark, has developed a reputation that affects how Obligation and Duty interact with the character.

A Dark side paragon gains an Obligation equal to 30 minus his morality. This should be related to his reputation- Criminal, Bounty, or so forth. His duty is also considered to be less by the same amount, as your superiors are afraid to reward you as they should.

A Light side paragon , conversely, is considered "legitimate and aboveboard", able to rely on their reputation to protect them from the cosiquences of their obligations. Their obligation is considered to be (morality minus 70) less. You also are fast tracked by your superiors- your duty is considered to be higher, and allows the party to reach a new contribution rank faster (and you start the new contribution rank with this bonus duty as well)"

How about this.

"A Non force sensitive who becomes a paragon of either light or dark, has developed a reputation that affects how Obligation and Duty interact with the character.

A Dark side paragon gains an Obligation equal to 30 minus his morality. This should be related to his reputation- Criminal, Bounty, or so forth. His duty is also considered to be less by the same amount, as your superiors are afraid to reward you as they should.

A Light side paragon , conversely, is considered "legitimate and aboveboard", able to rely on their reputation to protect them from the cosiquences of their obligations. Their obligation is considered to be (morality minus 70) less. You also are fast tracked by your superiors- your duty is considered to be higher, and allows the party to reach a new contribution rank faster (and you start the new contribution rank with this bonus duty as well)"

Unless you think The Force is whispering in people's ear's about how Awesome Socks the LSer is and how Ebil Dudes the DSer is.

How about this.

"A Non force sensitive who becomes a paragon of either light or dark, has developed a reputation that affects how Obligation and Duty interact with the character.

A Dark side paragon gains an Obligation equal to 30 minus his morality. This should be related to his reputation- Criminal, Bounty, or so forth. His duty is also considered to be less by the same amount, as your superiors are afraid to reward you as they should.

A Light side paragon , conversely, is considered "legitimate and aboveboard", able to rely on their reputation to protect them from the cosiquences of their obligations. Their obligation is considered to be (morality minus 70) less. You also are fast tracked by your superiors- your duty is considered to be higher, and allows the party to reach a new contribution rank faster (and you start the new contribution rank with this bonus duty as well)"

I'd still base it on their actions that were witnessed, just as I would without Morality.

Unless you think The Force is whispering in people's ear's about how Awesome Socks the LSer is and how Ebil Dudes the DSer is.

True, but it's hard to become a Paragon without being seen as a good or bad person.

True, but it's hard to become a Paragon without being seen as a good or bad person.

True, but it's hard to become a Paragon without being seen as a good or bad person.

It's hard to be recognized as a Paragon without witnesses to your "good deeds". It isn't any harder to be one.

You missed my point. becomig a paragon is such a long and difficult process, that at some point people are going to notice yo being a good person, however hard you hide it. This reputation is what is modifying the obligation and duty scores.

Darkside paragon is a bit more difficult, but your obligation can be for whatever singular incident tanked your morality, as well as a general "bad person" penalty.

After seeing what Luke does and how he is "ranked" in the rebellion, I am pretty sure a Dark sider would LOSE duty as the rebellion wouldn't want someone to corrupt their golden boy Luke.

Sorry but the main thing that separates Star Wars from "everything else" is that Light is "good guys" dark is "bad guys" and ne'er the twain will meet.

I fully understand people want to deal with the moral ambiguities that are available in real life, but Star Wars is pretty cut and dry about how Dark should be negative (anger/hate/fear leading to the dark side). As to non-force users being affected. You are more likely to draw Vader or Palpatine's notice if you are going around killing all dark sider-ish.That might even lead to an Inquisitor or an Emperor's Hand knocking at your door to either kill/recruit you.

The main thing is, dark side is "easier/quicker/bad" and the ease to travel down that path is the only "benefit" it should EVER have. To a non-force user, you don't EVER have to agonize about if you should kill or just leave unconscious, kill and go about your merry way. A Force user would gain conflict and thus being able to throw around Dark side points like it is Halloween candy.

TL:DR; Dark side is bad, no benefits for you!