Lots of super discussion on this, it's hard to comment on it all.

I think adding ship variants is a bad idea. However, I think adding more pilots and paint jobs on several ships is a great idea. I love the idea of Aces packs, and the trick is to include new pilots that get used, but also don't blanket replace the previous pilots. Wes is awesome, but he doesn't show up more than Biggs, Luke, Wedge, et al. Same with the Interceptor guys, and I hope that the new B-Wing guy doesn't just replace Ibtisam and co.

The bad idea with Variants is that it doesn't really make design or fiscal sense for FFG. Where's the payoff? Selling ships is the money, not the cardboard.

I like the ideas that add to the game in general, but not in such a way as to remove that which actually connects this game to the Star Wars experience. EU is really great in my mind, and in many others. I do agree that the Vong were lazy writing, but at the same time, the experiences of the Jedi Order, of the Solo clan, of Mara and Luke, have become real parts of the EU, and they cannot just be 'lost' in the meantime. Without it, you don't get the Legacy era stuff, which is pretty fun story reading for people who love Star Wars.

But most people don't view that stuff and get excited. I'd imagine there's a large portion reading this post and asking, "what the heck is the Legacy Era, and who are the Solo Clan beyond Han?" For them, all this stuff begins to dilute the heart of this game, which is in the heart of the Star Wars universe, the original Trilogy.

I think that while I suggested a Smugglers and Spies section (which might include Cor-Sec by the way), it might be more realistic to suggest that new content from the past/upcoming TV series (Clone Wars and Rebels) and/or the past/upcoming movies (Prequel and future films) is more more realistic in terms of new factions. The real key to the question for me is which actually provides a good, long, future for this game that is a like/love/obsession but without diluting the experience of Star Wars.

I think a Smugglers/Cor-Sec would not dilute the era, but might prove difficult in terms of ship and character separation and recognition. It might be hard to include the prequel era content because of historical reasons (aren't the ships that preceded the modern A, B, X, and E Wings worse than the A, B, X and E Wings?). I think the problem with the future films is that they won't have enough content/be fleshed out with EU material in a timely fashion compared to the life span of X-Wing.

I think FFG have, and it pains me to say this, shot themselves in the foot with the number and speed of releases for this game. Unfortunately, the name of the game is economics, and it is certainly more economical to capitalize on the popularity and demand for this game. X-Wing must make FFG a lot of money, and it makes them more money the more content they produce. However, in my humble opinion, I think we have about 3 too many ships for each faction at this point, and while they're ALL awesome and I love playing with these toys, the pace they've set becomes very hard to slow down from.

What happens if/when the fans of the game start to clamour for ships because they only release 1 or 2 per faction in 2015? When you've been given core game plus 2 expansions per faction in 2012 (technically 4 ships, but the Core is important), 4 expansions per faction in 2013 (total 8 ships), 3 per faction with 2 aces packs and 2 Huge Rebel ships in 2014, and now 3 new ships expected Q4 2014. In other words, 2014 has featured the a total release of 3 new ships per faction, and Aces packs for each Faction with the inclusion of 3 factions... so 9 brand new ships with 1/2/3 modified early versions in ace format)... and that doesn't include the Huge Ships! To extrapolate the current scale of growth and project it towards 2015, we should expect 4 new ships per faction next year, and at least 2 new Huge Ships, and at least 1 aces pack per faction. That's potentially 12 new ships, with perhaps 3-6 of them retreated in aces and the potential for more Epic Battle material (yay).

But, is that a realistic growth schedule for the longevity of this game? Is there enough material to even sustain the current pace, never mind grow it the way I just suggested along a similar scale? Wouldn't it be healthier long term to slow down? But what happens if we only get 3 new ships in 2015, or just 6, or even just 3 with an aces pack for each faction? What about 2016? I don't think FFG can realistically slow down without making their customers upset, and obviously it's hard to sustain the employees who work on this game for us (who are AMAZING) without producing enough new content to make their positions and the game viable.

Anyway. I hate to sound so negative, so downcast, when in reality I'm calling for a problem that may just be a Red Herring. My hope is that someone at FFG is thinking about these things, and is saying "Let's solve the problem and give our fans/customers 5-10 more years of steady content for this game," because the way I see it, 2 years might be too much to hope for. But maybe I just have too narrow vision.

Jacob

4th Faction, I'm not going to buy it!

3rd Faction or Wave 6, I'm not going to buy that either!

Wave 5, I bought a defender, and that's all I will buy.

I want my money back for the Tie Advance, and the Y-Wing. Waste of money.

I will buy only those up grades for a Tie Fighter, Tie Advanced, Tie Interceptor, and Tie Bomber. I want more Tie Bombers pilots. Since none of that is not going to happen. I see that I most like will not be playing this game much longer.

Introduce a force sensitive pilot list. You could create a new faction from it or provide them for existing factions. Might add a force element to the game changing a ships fate somehow.

Introduce a force sensitive pilot list. You could create a new faction from it or provide them for existing factions. Might add a force element to the game changing a ships fate somehow.

That's actually an idea I really like. The concept of Stealth Xs that require Jedi Pilots is in the EU, and it would also allow the addition of quite a variety of pilots from a variety of Eras. Probably not going to happen, but it's an idea I really would love to play with.

Jacob

I have seen your threads on this issue before and all I can think of is "balancing nightmare."

If we had these new variants why use the basic ones? Your ew bomber completely negates a named shuttle pilot. This isn't something I could get behind either. You start messing with the ships in this manner and you start to disorient the superb balance this game has. The idea reeks of power creep.

I'll give you credit for thinking of something innovative...but this is ultimately a bad idea.

"reeks of power creep." Well that was unfriendly. If FFG assigns the correct point value to each ship, And each ship is correctly worth the points assigned to it, than your statement is Incorrect. It is simple a matter of a logic, called an If-Then statement. (Yes, MATH saves the day!) This is a Super Awesome Idea, it "Fixes" many problems with the game, without a major overhaul. ( I will Not buy the Second edition of the game!) And as I stated before, "This could give all players a new twist and still keep the flavor of X-Wing. (As well as letting the player, keep playing their favorite ships!)" Note on playing their favorite ships. This will prolong the longevity of the game as a whole.

As to regards to your statement, "Your ew bomber completely negates a named shuttle pilot." I don't find this to be an argument. There are many pilots and many have the same skill set. (Just a note on realism, just look at the US Air Force, Many pilot and Air craft have the same capabilities. Because of this overlap in capabilities, the US is very successful at military action.)

I think you’re over complicating what I am saying. The changes are all ready printed on the pilot card. It’s not a balancing nightmare at all. You choose your pilots , your upgrades till you reach 100 points, just like before. I gave the example of a Tie fighter that had a Targeting computer as standard issue. So here is my example:

The Tie fighter, Academy Pilot , with Actions (Focus, Barrel Roll, and Evade) is worth 12 points. Add a modification say a targeting computer, this would add 2 more points. So this is worth 14 points.

The Tie Fighter Variant is a Tie Fighter, Academy Pilot, with the Actions printed on the card are, (Focus, Barrel Roll, Evade and Target Lock) for 14 points. Since now the Target Lock is already printed on the card. That Tie Fighter Model –b is entitled to one Modification, because the target lock is now printed on the pilot card. This is the next Model of Tie Fighter.

The Tie Fighter Variant with an auto cannon would be a both a named and unnamed pilot cards. These card would add a Cannon upgrade on the bottom of the card, with the caption Auto Cannon only.

Another example

Tie Bomber Scimitar Squadron Pilot,

Upgrade printed on the bottom of the card are, (not including the one Modification)

Torpedo

Torpedo

Missile

Missile

Bomb

A variant of the bomber what only change the upgrades printed on the bottom of a card

Tie bomber Model B

Upgrades printed on the pilot cards

Crew

Missile

Missile

Bomb

Bomb

This variant replaced the torpedo upgrades and replace one with a crew upgrade and the other with a extra bomb upgrade. And this ship would still be eligible to add one Modification. This is how it is printed on the Pilot Card.

Another example would be a Y-Wing:

Y-Wing Gold Squadron Pilot worth (18 points)

Upgrades, not counting the Modification.

Turret

Torpedo

Torpedo

Astromech

Y-Wing Varaint Model B, The upgrades printed on the Pilot card could be.

Turret

Bomb

Bomb

Astromech

Or

Turret

Missile

Missile

Astomech

Since I don’t know the formula the FFG used to determine points I can’t state what these variants are worth.

An A-Wing with a Chardaan Refit is a variant. The Chardaan Refit “Upgrade” is a hard way to do a variant. The Varaint should be a printed Pilot card.

These variants are printed pilot cards that have a different set of upgrades. That is it, it is that simple. No balancing nightmares. You choose your ship, your upgrades till you reach 100 points. You now have different versions of the ship.

FFG could make one Expansion for the Empire, Called “Pilot of the Empire” and One for the Rebellion, called “Pilots of the Rebellion”. Adding about a hundred pilot card, all the counters needed, plus anything else they wish to add. But No models because that would be a waste.

And please don’t tell me that the players can’t handle to many options. I want many options so I can play this game many years!

Man I'm tied!

I am sorry if my choice of words offends you...but yes this idea really does "reek of power creep" and has the potential to do far more harm than good. It would fundamentally change how this game is played and the role of many of these ships. It may seem like a simple idea...and on the surface it is. But you are either too naive or enamored with how "Super Awesome" this idea is to see its faults. I dont see any issues that exist currently that this proposal would "fix." You yourself admit you wouldnt know how to "properly price" these. I am sure you will admit it would be an extremely daunting task...one that would eat up substantial resources and could potentially turn the game into Xwing ver 2. You may not see it but this would be a catastrophic sea change in what is at least 30% of this game...list building.

FFG WOULD have to reexamine literally every card that has come out and find out how to fairly price each of these "Variants" that would be developed. Creating by your own words 100(!) "new" pilots per faction and 3x new ships for them to fly doesnt sound like a major overhaul?

One of the major pillars of your idea is to essentially give every ship in the game a "royal guard" title. But one is "baked into" the ship already and somehow that is balanced? Simply because its cost is incorporated into the pilot? Every A-wing should immediately have the Chaardaan Refit? Have you thought of how multiple upgrades (both present and future) could oversynergize and create op combos? This can be mitigated quite a bit under the current regime due to the fact that it only effects a very limited number of pilots...not all the pilots in the game. This is one of the major things you are proposing...and yet it isnt a major overhaul? This is simple and not a balancing nightmare? Just because it is printed on the card doesnt make it balanced...have you ever looked through a 40K codex?

I dont understand how you can simply dismiss that making unique pilots no longer unique isnt an issue. Its a pretty big issue as it contributes to faction, pilot,and ship identity. You can choose to dismiss it if you want...but it matters alot to those of us who are playing and I know I wont take kindly to having these abilities moved to multiple pilots without a very very good reason.

Allowing ships to trade their upgrades in for others flings wide open the door to op combos and the balancing nightmare...a major part of the cost of ships is what upgrades they can take and how those upgrades can synergize with each other to make the ship better than the sum of its parts...and those upgrades are priced accordingly through whatever means the devs have. I really dont understand how you are unable to see this.

Options are not a bad thing...but too many options become impossible to playtest and the really good players will be able to break the game quite quickly by finding combos you may have never thought of...this is one of the major problems with the games GW puts out (and part of why I stopped playing 40K.) We have plenty of options as it stands now and I dont feel the games longevity is in doubt at this point in time. This idea as I have stated, will do nothing but hurt the game...its a bad idea. I wish you could see that.

As I said in my last post...you can throw realism out the airlock...as long as we are playing with ships that make noise in space and can be piloted by flashlight wielding space wizards I wont pay too much attention to realism...How does a TIE fly in atmo? It certainly isnt aerodynamic...

We have plenty of longevity coming with the new faction, new movies, and new TV series coming soon...and all the video games and other media sure to follow...while your idea is creative you should devote (heh heh) that energy to a better idea.

EDIT TO ADD: if you want to continue this discussion i would recommend you start a new thread or necro your old one...we dont need to derail this thread

I am “naïve”, (Thank for that! That brought a smile to my face! :-), in believing that the Game designers can figure it out. I’m “naïve”, in the believe that FFG wants to put out a game that doesn’t make me feel that it’s a “money pit” or that they are trying to “milk” me for every penny that they can. One good expansion for each faction would solve that. I’m “Naïve” in believing that the points each ship and the points the upgrades are assigned are correct. Because when I go to a tournament my 100 points should have the same change as winning as any one else’s. (I’m not talking about dice rolls that is fate. Nor tactics that is experience.)

What fixes, the great lack of pilots for one! Only four Tie advance pilots, Only four Y-wing pilots, only four Tie bomber pilots, soon on and so forth. I am “Naïve” enough to believe that the FFG team can handle it.

Please don’t even use it’s hard work for the FFG development team. I work very hard for my money, and I do expect the FFG development team to do the same. If Not then they are not worthily of my patronage.

I started a new topic call, What type of expansion would you like to see for X-Wing! To continue this conversation!

See Ya there! :-)

I would be soooooo happy to buy some Vong ships!

Check out this awesome Vong Transport (you can see a Croalskipper leaving the bay):

I would be happy to buy vong more so than the S&V which i will probably buy but never play.

Don't think the vong have many ships though but I'm also not opposed to FFG created ships.

I just want this game to have as long a life as possible