I can't remember the exact page (220?) but in the GM chapter under the Morality section it mentions that lowering your Morality at the start gets you XP and/or credits. It even gives advice as to what you may have done to get them.

However, around page 34(?) is gives raising or lowering your Morality by 20 as one of four starting options (the others being extra XP, credits or both).

Thoughts?

The GM section is probably an outdated bit of rules text from an earlier draft. I'd guess the material on page 34 is correct, since that's what Andy and Sam and Kat Ostrander were all referencing when I spoke to or overheard conversations with about the Morality mechanic.

I think so, too. I made this thread just before going to another where this question applied.

I feel that lowering your starting Morality should give more XP and Credits, not an alternative to XP and Credits. I feel that:

Morality 70: No XP or Credit Bonus

Morality 50: (As in Book)

Morality 30: 15 XP or 3500 Credits or (10 XP and 1000 Credits) or (5 XP and 2500 Credits)

Which would make that 30 Morality very tempting - and that's the point, right?

I feel that lowering your starting Morality should give more XP and Credits, not an alternative to XP and Credits. I feel that:

Morality 70: No XP or Credit Bonus

Morality 50: (As in Book)

Morality 30: 15 XP or 3500 Credits or (10 XP and 1000 Credits) or (5 XP and 2500 Credits)

Which would make that 30 Morality very tempting - and that's the point, right?

Too tempting and unbalanced. People would take it saying either they don't care and will be dark or that their character is dark but changing to the light. Either way they just want it for the goodies.

I feel that lowering your starting Morality should give more XP and Credits, not an alternative to XP and Credits. I feel that:

Morality 70: No XP or Credit Bonus

Morality 50: (As in Book)

Morality 30: 15 XP or 3500 Credits or (10 XP and 1000 Credits) or (5 XP and 2500 Credits)

Which would make that 30 Morality very tempting - and that's the point, right?

Too tempting and unbalanced. People would take it saying either they don't care and will be dark or that their character is dark but changing to the light. Either way they just want it for the goodies.

"Just wanting it for the goodies" is an exemplar of the Dark Side. I don't see the problem.

It's the same amount of XP and Credits a character in a party of 2 can get for either Obligation or Duty, so it's not out of line. Granted you might have larger parties, but if you've got Force Users in your game, you're going for bigger stuff anyway.

Plus, it rewards players who WANT to be dark side, which will probably be a fair few in any game mixed with EOTE

I feel that lowering your starting Morality should give more XP and Credits, not an alternative to XP and Credits. I feel that:

Morality 70: No XP or Credit Bonus

Morality 50: (As in Book)

Morality 30: 15 XP or 3500 Credits or (10 XP and 1000 Credits) or (5 XP and 2500 Credits)

Which would make that 30 Morality very tempting - and that's the point, right?

It doesn't work in practice though. Take a look at EotE, people will max the entire parties Obligation from the start if it means getting 5 more XP, I've seen them do it. With this build they will always take 30.

The options as is make more sense. A player at starting level will want to take the usual XP and/or Cash bonuses to get a leg up. A player starting at Knight level won't want that XP and Cash so bad because he already knows he's getting 150XP, and a saber or 10k worth of kit on top of the basic starting stuff, so for him a Morality shift might be more valuable.

Well, it's obvious we play with different types of people.

In our EOTE game, people took more Obligation at the start in exchange for credits, but then in our game 5 XP has proven a lot easier to come by than 1,000 credits

The players I play with probably wouldn't min-max their characters into the Dark Side just in exchange for a few credits or XP, they'd probably take into account what those Morality points mean and what their character is intended to be like.

Well, it's obvious we play with different types of people.

And on your level you can do whatever works. For the official rules FFG has to consider the public at large and what they will do.

Yeah, as a general rule I'd say getting to drop your Morality and getting additional XP and credits is a bad idea. It's just going to encourage those players that like to play evil characters to do so even more than they would already. And this is a game where the PCs are generally intended to be heroes, not a group of self-serving sociopaths.

Yeah, as a general rule I'd say getting to drop your Morality and getting additional XP and credits is a bad idea. It's just going to encourage those players that like to play evil characters to do so even more than they would already. And this is a game where the PCs are generally intended to be heroes, not a group of self-serving sociopaths.

Whaaaaaat?! Nobody plays selfish sociopaths in an RPG! No, I agree. I'm glad they went with this as a base and leave it up to us to tweak it to grey or darker.

With the people I play with, if someone started with 30 Morality the GM would be constantly trying to get them to generate Conflict, and would hand out Conflict at the slightest sign of fear, anger, despair, etc. If you wanted to skirt the Dark Side, you could try, but there's no guarantees. And once you start down the dark path... Let's just say it would not go well for them.

There are a lot of Force Powers that don't allow Dark Side users access to some Light Side effects. That's not to mention distrust from your teammates and other problems that aren't handled mechanistically.

You want to play an evil character? Ok, sure. You get thrown in the deep end first. Enjoy your bonus XP, you're gonna need it.

"Just wanting it for the goodies" is an exemplar of the Dark Side. I don't see the problem.

It's the same amount of XP and Credits a character in a party of 2 can get for either Obligation or Duty, so it's not out of line. Granted you might have larger parties, but if you've got Force Users in your game, you're going for bigger stuff anyway.

Talking to Sam Stewart at GenCon, they specifically wanted taking the 20pt Morality hit/boost to be a choice, not a way to minmax a character for someone who wants to play a Dark Sider AND gen more xp/money.