Before I post to your replys I will point out that alot of you didnt read everything I posted. If you had some of the things I have to reply to now wouldnt need it.

Your current argument is if the Imps had this broadside weapons I talk about everyone else would. I counter THAT with this. Since the moncal had the most advanced shields the Imps would have copied it. They didnt, in fact they built the ISD 2 with less power normally going to shields.

The moncal had the most dangerous anti-fight weapon system, which was giant cluster bombs on the outer hull of there ships. No fighter could escape the blast. It being so effective youd think the Imps would use it but they didnt.

The tactics the Rebs used to deal with the long range weapons of the IMPS is heavy ECM, close range cap ship fighting OR only sending anticap ship fighter to deal with the IMP cap ships, like A or B Wing fighters. The Mon Cal can carrry 120 Reb fighters. If they r ready for a large Naval fight they will stay out of range and just deploy all there fighters.

The ZC can afford to fight IMPs at any range because there ships r both very tough and powerful.

2)Legally you cant just copy and rebuild and then sell anything that is patented by another company.

While this is true in a normal law abiding society if you are a a company that effectively owns star systems and you are willing to wage a civil war to secede from the government I would be willing to be you have no qualms about using Republic patents for toilet paper(yes I know they don't actually print stuff out on paper but the point is fairly clear to those of us who live in a galaxy where paper is used)

Also to address 1) it would make good economic sense (and the CIS leaders aren't stupid economically, politically naive and easily manipulated maybe) to invest in upgraded power plants for your ships anyways, more power= faster engines, stronger shields, and more powerful/longer weapon ranges whether you building a fleet to protect convoys or building a war fleet

Going by the listed reactor outputs, weapons designed, and tactics used by the REBS and CIS they didnt feel the need to replicate that sort of Laser tech and reactors. As I posted in exception of ISD2 the other SD that had these heavy turbo Laser Cannons could be avoided if the ships attack from any direction but the starboard and portsides. Hense why Rebs and CIS prefer to jumpin at very close range.

Agian alot of people missed my post that the alternate weapons used by other forces or IMP ships are heavy troops / missiles, gauss rifles, and in the case of one of the Super CIS ships a Ion cannon.

The problem with your last point though IS they would have to capture a Venerator or new SD. Which rarely happend OR survive being attacked by such a weapon and understand what it is that attacked them.

So one company is able to manufacture turbolasers that can fire several thousand times further then that of other companies and no one else copies this process. That makes absolutely no sense. If a weapon with such a range advantage over any other turbolaser were developed any company wanting to win the Republic's and later the Empire's heavy warship contracts away from KDY would make copying the weapon or producing their own version of it a top priority, as would any shipwrights loyal to the Separatists or the Alliance.

And since we never see these broadside weapons firing on screen and nothing in the novels, comics, or video games shows them being fired at such a long range what evidence does the person who originally stated that they have such a range offer to support his claim?

Actully it does make sence that no other company has copied because of more than one reason. 1) Energy requirement KDY star destroyers have always had the most powerful reactors out of the diffrent companies cap ships to exist, These other companies would have to invest in more advanced reactors as well as these boardsides. 2)Legally you cant just copy and rebuild and then sell anything that is patented by another company. 3) Other long range weapons were built that can be considered alternatives to above weapons, Cap ship heavy torps and missiles, gauss weapons built into prototype SD that were built by MM. 4) Except for the ISD 2, SD that had these weapons were to a degree easy to avoid. Staying to the bow you could only be fired upon by two of these cannons(16 SD2) if your anywhere else but the starboard or port side they can be avoided. The other compaines and or Admirals of other fleets may have seen this as a design flaw that could be exploited if the rush in or jump in close to there enemies. I dont because up close the enemy now has to deal with multible batteries of heavy turbos and ions.

No evidence is required for the range of the broadsides. They got permission from LF to publish that detail into the source book. These crossection books are purposly filed with details for the ships they rep that you wont find in any other medium because of the story telling style of SW. If this were ST you would because in there stories its important alot of the time too there plots to add facts about tech.

1: If the author based that number on evidence from the setting it is one thing. If he just made up a number with no proof it is far different,.

2: There is no evidence that Kuat Drive Yards designed vessels have more power available then another ship of the same size. If Rendili Stardrive, Corellian Engineering Corporation, or the Mon Calamari built a 1,600 meter long warship class there is absolutely no reason to believe that their designs couldn't match an Imperial-class vessel's power output. When the Essential Guide to Warfare explained why Kuat Drive Yards got most of the Grand Army of the Republic, and Imperial warship contracts nothing was mentioned about Kuat Drive Yards having more efficient power generators.

3: As someone else mentioned in times of war military equipment manufacturers from opposing sides tend to not care about copyrights and patents of their enemy counterparts. Actually I doubt they care about patents and copyrights held by military manufacturers in neutral nations, and unless the nations are every close allies most probably don't even care during peacetime. Thus if the Separatists, Alliance or both got their hands on a weapon with such a massive range advantage, either by obtaining a physical copy of the weapon system or the blueprints they would hand it over to their shipwrights instantly to duplicate. And there is no reasonable way that neither of those two groups was ever in a position to recover one of those turbos from either a Venator or Imperial, or at lest steal the blueprints. Its much more likely that both groups would have been able to do so at some point in fact if such weapons existed.

4: Industrial espionage between even allied shipwrights seems to be very common in Star Wars. We know that Kuat Drive Yards used it widely as part of their effort to weaken and eventually buy out Core Galaxy Systems. We also know that Rendili Stardrive launched a major industrial espionage effort against Kuat Drive Yards early in the Clone Wars, and possibly earlier. And we know that both Kuat Dive Yards and Republic Sienar Systems/Sienar Fleet Systems engaged in a mutal industrial espionage campaign because in the early days of the Empire many large gatherings which had representatives of both corporations present would often involve those representatives arguing over which shipwright stole what from the other.

1) Doesnt matter LF approved of these authors works ergo its canon. JFYI A I1SD has a detecation range of 100 light years using its trancevers and comscan computers. Just to compare it taked a Federation Galaxy Class star ship 24 hours to scan 1 light year.

2) Curtis Saxtion wrote it that the KDY ships have the most powerful reactors out of Cap ships esp during the Reb era.

3) Reasonable answer for three posted above

4) Doesnt matter because it was KDY that ended up on top as far as Imp cap ship contracts are concerned.

2: There is no evidence that Kuat Drive Yards designed vessels have more power available then another ship of the same size. If Rendili Stardrive, Corellian Engineering Corporation, or the Mon Calamari built a 1,600 meter long warship class there is absolutely no reason to believe that their designs couldn't match an Imperial-class vessel's power output. When the Essential Guide to Warfare explained why Kuat Drive Yards got most of the Grand Army of the Republic, and Imperial warship contracts nothing was mentioned about Kuat Drive Yards having more efficient power generators.

My personal bias and assumptions at play here, I think all of them do have equal power output but I assume that each funnel their power into different areas. CEC probably puts their power into engines for speed. (CR-90 for example) Mon Cals seem to prefer shields, with the redundant generators they seem to install. Rendili probably invested their power into automating systems to reduce manpower (like the slave circuits on the Katana fleet). Kuat probably funnels more into weapons than the others. Star Destroyers aren't named that because it sounds so cool.

You do realise though that almost 4 CR-90s could fit in a ISD1 solar ionazation reactor? If there all equal than KDY would be extermly behind on reactor tech if 1 90 had the same reactor output. It would also mean if they used all that energy for traveling they r not thinking clearly because they could have used all that energy for shields.

I all ready posted this... ECM ECM and or close range fighting. Also the REBS would send A-Wings with there electronic attack capabilities to **** up Star Destroyers so they couldnt even fight period. TIE Bombers as well as Heavy TIE Bombers and TIE Interdictors have a electronic attack equipment that **** up antifighter weapons.

Also I posted the alternate long range weapons that can be used.

I know some of the models one the empire uses are faster that 60 mph

Holy reading comprehension fail...

Here's why a range of 15 light minutes does not work. For anything other then a object on a fixed orbit, like say a planet, moon or a space station.

15 light minutes is 269,813,212 kilometers distance. Now lets say that even if a turbolaser traveled at the speed of light, which it doesn't.

You target something that far away, you see where it was 15 minutes ago, not where it currently is, because sensors are limited to the speed of light. You then fire a turbolaser at it, it will take at least 15 minutes to get there, that means 30 minutes have past from the point it was where you fired at.

Now even if you could accurately predict heading and speed, and assuming the target didn't change heading or speed... If you're off by even .0001% you've still missed your target by 26,981 kilometers. There is zero chance of hitting anything when you figure the distances you're talking about at 15 light minutes. Again unless it's a fixed orbit object.

1) Your to closed minded about situations in which these weapons can be used.

2) There lots of diffrent models of Turbo Lasers. They have shown them traveling at diffrent speeds. Lastly you dont know the speed in which the laser is traveling from the broadsides used on the ISD 1 and 2. You dont know the speed of the lasers from T& D6 turbos, XX-8 Heavy Turbos, and XX-9 Heavy Turbos. No where is it written that they travel at 60 mph. For all we know since Lasers r all ready heavly altered the ones fired from these cannons may fire lasers that travel close to 15 light min.

Like I said these cannons are HUGE they dwarf the XX-9s. The onlything bigger is the planetary turbos and Super Lasers.

3) Since these LASERs are botled and can change directions because of the targeting system / light manipulation equipment as they leave they barrel these could have course corrections esp with the help of a TIE Fighter / FC which is meant to be used for long range attacks.

4) Its not impossible esp since the ISD 2 has 32 per side and and fire rapidly in ever direction that target can go as long as ECM is defeated. You didnt think that people using these weapons would fire only one time and only where that target is at did you?

Not to mention that the target will see the bolt coming well before it arrives and be able to evade unless the sensor crew is asleep at their posts or the bridge unmanned.

Not always going to happen. They could fire when the ship is in a passive and actice sensor vulnerable situations. Imps have done this in the past. The IMPs have much better systems than the Rebs so sptinging a trap in a dense gas cloud has shown not to bother them

Whatever the actual starts are will probably not have a bearing on the game except in the loosest sense. They will be modified for game play purposes and range will be whatever is appropriate for the board. It is all a matter of storytelling which is why, using tractor beams as an example, the Death Star can pull the Falcon in at an immense distance but an ISD cannot haul in a corvette from point blank range and evidently cannot catch the Falcon.

The available info on turbolasers is chock full of contradictions. But personally i prefer them to be relatively short range. As was stated earlier ships firing into empty space isnt thrilling as a general rule. Although if followed immediately after by a volley of explosions it can work nicely

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XO1jGV46yCE

1) Your to closed minded about situations in which these weapons can be used.

2) There lots of different models of Turbo Lasers. They have shown them traveling at different speeds. Lastly you dont know the speed in which the laser is traveling from the broadsides used on the ISD 1 and 2. You don't know the speed of the lasers from T& D6 turbos, XX-8 Heavy Turbos, and XX-9 Heavy Turbos. No where is it written that they travel at 60 mph. For all we know since Lasers r all ready heavly altered the ones fired from these cannons may fire lasers that travel close to 15 light min.

Like I said these cannons are HUGE they dwarf the XX-9s. The onlything bigger is the planetary turbos and Super Lasers.

3) Since these LASERs are botled and can change directions because of the targeting system / light manipulation equipment as they leave they barrel these could have course corrections esp with the help of a TIE Fighter / FC which is meant to be used for long range attacks.

4) Its not impossible esp since the ISD 2 has 32 per side and and fire rapidly in ever direction that target can go as long as ECM is defeated. You didnt think that people using these weapons would fire only one time and only where that target is at did you?

2: There are different speeds of turbolaser shots I believe but none of them get anywhere near the speed of light and there is no evidence that the ISD's broadside guns fire bolts that do so.

3: Are you saying that the bolts can change course once fired, or just that the gun can adjust its bearing before it fires? If the former that's crazy. If the latter it won't make a difference.

4: Yeah but you would have to spread the shots to cover the area that the target might be in when the shots arrive and at a 15 LM range even if each gun in the broadside fires 50 bolts the odds on being able to cover that wide of a zone and get enough shots on target to do significant damage is virtually nil.

Not to mention that the target will see the bolt coming well before it arrives and be able to evade unless the sensor crew is asleep at their posts or the bridge unmanned.

Not always going to happen. They could fire when the ship is in a passive and actice sensor vulnerable situations. Imps have done this in the past. The IMPs have much better systems than the Rebs so sptinging a trap in a dense gas cloud has shown not to bother them

Finding the exact location of a target in those situations will be incredibly difficult, especially at the ranges you are talking about.

The fact is there is no evidence anywhere in Star Wars to support the claim that ISD broadside turbolasers have a 15 LM range. Lucasbooks or whoever oked the project that said otherwise trusted that the author would make reasonable claims based on the data available to him, AKA the movies and EU material that was out at that time. Obviously they trusted him too much but that doesn't make what he said correct unless it is supported by something we see on screen, or in the new novels and comics.

1) Your to closed minded about situations in which these weapons can be used.

When you prove you've both actually read and comprehend what I said, I'll bother responding to your nonsense. Until then I don't see a reason.

The problem with your last point though IS they would have to capture a Venerator or new SD. Which rarely happend OR survive being attacked by such a weapon and understand what it is that attacked them.

2: There is no evidence that Kuat Drive Yards designed vessels have more power available then another ship of the same size. If Rendili Stardrive, Corellian Engineering Corporation, or the Mon Calamari built a 1,600 meter long warship class there is absolutely no reason to believe that their designs couldn't match an Imperial-class vessel's power output. When the Essential Guide to Warfare explained why Kuat Drive Yards got most of the Grand Army of the Republic, and Imperial warship contracts nothing was mentioned about Kuat Drive Yards having more efficient power generators.

My personal bias and assumptions at play here, I think all of them do have equal power output but I assume that each funnel their power into different areas. CEC probably puts their power into engines for speed. (CR-90 for example) Mon Cals seem to prefer shields, with the redundant generators they seem to install. Rendili probably invested their power into automating systems to reduce manpower (like the slave circuits on the Katana fleet). Kuat probably funnels more into weapons than the others. Star Destroyers aren't named that because it sounds so cool.

You do realise though that almost 4 CR-90s could fit in a ISD1 solar ionazation reactor? If there all equal than KDY would be extermly behind on reactor tech if 1 90 had the same reactor output. It would also mean if they used all that energy for traveling they r not thinking clearly because they could have used all that energy for shields.

I all ready posted this... ECM ECM and or close range fighting. Also the REBS would send A-Wings with there electronic attack capabilities to **** up Star Destroyers so they couldnt even fight period. TIE Bombers as well as Heavy TIE Bombers and TIE Interdictors have a electronic attack equipment that **** up antifighter weapons.

2) There lots of diffrent models of Turbo Lasers. They have shown them traveling at diffrent speeds. Lastly you dont know the speed in which the laser is traveling from the broadsides used on the ISD 1 and 2. You dont know the speed of the lasers from T& D6 turbos, XX-8 Heavy Turbos, and XX-9 Heavy Turbos. No where is it written that they travel at 60 mph. For all we know since Lasers r all ready heavly altered the ones fired from these cannons may fire lasers that travel close to 15 light min.

1. The New Republic had captured more than a "few" ISDs so it obviously couldn't have been as hard as you say it is.

2. My point is that Corellians place their emphasis on speed, the CR-90 being one example and Han brags about outrunning the Corellian ships, ergo they must be fast for such an accomplishment to be worth bragging about. If you believe I really was trying to suggest that a CR-90 has the same power production capabilities as a ship over 10x its size, you either are dumber than I give you credit for or you think I am dumber than I am

3. A-wings don't have the ECM abilities to shut down Star Destroyers, I don't know where you got that idea from or what/if you were smoking/drinking when you thought you read that but I want whatever it is.

4. Even in the Star Wars Universe the only thing capable of traveling faster than the speed of light is a hyperdrive, so like others have said AT A MINIMUM it would take 15 to hit a target 15 light min away

I believe but none of them get anywhere near the speed of light and there is no evidence that the ISD's broadside guns fire bolts that do so.

even at the speed of light, you still couldn't hit anything that's not on a fixed orbit at 15LM. It's just mathematically impossible. The amount of area even a small cone would cover at that distance is staggering.

A 10 degree cone, would have an area of 8,770,880,000 KM.

The problem with your last point though IS they would have to capture a Venerator or new SD. Which rarely happend OR survive being attacked by such a weapon and understand what it is that attacked them.

2: There is no evidence that Kuat Drive Yards designed vessels have more power available then another ship of the same size. If Rendili Stardrive, Corellian Engineering Corporation, or the Mon Calamari built a 1,600 meter long warship class there is absolutely no reason to believe that their designs couldn't match an Imperial-class vessel's power output. When the Essential Guide to Warfare explained why Kuat Drive Yards got most of the Grand Army of the Republic, and Imperial warship contracts nothing was mentioned about Kuat Drive Yards having more efficient power generators.

My personal bias and assumptions at play here, I think all of them do have equal power output but I assume that each funnel their power into different areas. CEC probably puts their power into engines for speed. (CR-90 for example) Mon Cals seem to prefer shields, with the redundant generators they seem to install. Rendili probably invested their power into automating systems to reduce manpower (like the slave circuits on the Katana fleet). Kuat probably funnels more into weapons than the others. Star Destroyers aren't named that because it sounds so cool.

You do realise though that almost 4 CR-90s could fit in a ISD1 solar ionazation reactor? If there all equal than KDY would be extermly behind on reactor tech if 1 90 had the same reactor output. It would also mean if they used all that energy for traveling they r not thinking clearly because they could have used all that energy for shields.

I all ready posted this... ECM ECM and or close range fighting. Also the REBS would send A-Wings with there electronic attack capabilities to **** up Star Destroyers so they couldnt even fight period. TIE Bombers as well as Heavy TIE Bombers and TIE Interdictors have a electronic attack equipment that **** up antifighter weapons.

2) There lots of diffrent models of Turbo Lasers. They have shown them traveling at diffrent speeds. Lastly you dont know the speed in which the laser is traveling from the broadsides used on the ISD 1 and 2. You dont know the speed of the lasers from T& D6 turbos, XX-8 Heavy Turbos, and XX-9 Heavy Turbos. No where is it written that they travel at 60 mph. For all we know since Lasers r all ready heavly altered the ones fired from these cannons may fire lasers that travel close to 15 light min.

1. The New Republic had captured more than a "few" ISDs so it obviously couldn't have been as hard as you say it is.

2. My point is that Corellians place their emphasis on speed, the CR-90 being one example and Han brags about outrunning the Corellian ships, ergo they must be fast for such an accomplishment to be worth bragging about. If you believe I really was trying to suggest that a CR-90 has the same power production capabilities as a ship over 10x its size, you either are dumber than I give you credit for or you think I am dumber than I am

And what I said was that Kuat power generators aren't notably superior to scale. In other words a Kuat designed ship the size of a CR90 with the same size of reactor won't have a significantly greater amount of power available then the CR90 but also that a Corellian designed ship the size of an Imperial class Star Destroyer with the same size of reactor that an Imperial class ship has would not have a significantly lower amount of power available then the Imperial class ship has

Whatever the actual starts are will probably not have a bearing on the game except in the loosest sense. They will be modified for game play purposes and range will be whatever is appropriate for the board. It is all a matter of storytelling which is why, using tractor beams as an example, the Death Star can pull the Falcon in at an immense distance but an ISD cannot haul in a corvette from point blank range and evidently cannot catch the Falcon.

The available info on turbolasers is chock full of contradictions. But personally i prefer them to be relatively short range. As was stated earlier ships firing into empty space isnt thrilling as a general rule. Although if followed immediately after by a volley of explosions it can work nicely

Ah yes, such a shame we rarely see that in western sci-fi (incidentally, that clip is how I imagine Corvette combat to be. Zipping around the battlefield throwing turbolaser fire at the weakest locations).

Still, given that Star Destroyers are noted to be very good at orbital bombardments, and such bombardments usually take place from high orbit, I have a hard time picturing their range as under 13000 kilometers.

Whatever the actual starts are will probably not have a bearing on the game except in the loosest sense. They will be modified for game play purposes and range will be whatever is appropriate for the board. It is all a matter of storytelling which is why, using tractor beams as an example, the Death Star can pull the Falcon in at an immense distance but an ISD cannot haul in a corvette from point blank range and evidently cannot catch the Falcon.

The available info on turbolasers is chock full of contradictions. But personally i prefer them to be relatively short range. As was stated earlier ships firing into empty space isnt thrilling as a general rule. Although if followed immediately after by a volley of explosions it can work nicely

Ah yes, such a shame we rarely see that in western sci-fi (incidentally, that clip is how I imagine Corvette combat to be. Zipping around the battlefield throwing turbolaser fire at the weakest locations).

Still, given that Star Destroyers are noted to be very good at orbital bombardments, and such bombardments usually take place from high orbit, I have a hard time picturing their range as under 13000 kilometers.

1) Range of anything vs a stationary target (especially space to ground borbardment) is significantly larger than effective combat range. So the fact you can hit the planet from low orbit (which I will point out is only a few hundred km not thousands - since why would you bombard from geosynchronous?) doesn't make combat ranges thousands of km.

2) Arguing with BKL on anything to do with star wars tech is a losing game. He is a complete idiot.

Whatever the actual starts are will probably not have a bearing on the game except in the loosest sense. They will be modified for game play purposes and range will be whatever is appropriate for the board. It is all a matter of storytelling which is why, using tractor beams as an example, the Death Star can pull the Falcon in at an immense distance but an ISD cannot haul in a corvette from point blank range and evidently cannot catch the Falcon.

The available info on turbolasers is chock full of contradictions. But personally i prefer them to be relatively short range. As was stated earlier ships firing into empty space isnt thrilling as a general rule. Although if followed immediately after by a volley of explosions it can work nicely

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XO1jGV46yCE

Their is no contradictions. Your basing your opinion on conflicts in which hurding was the objective.

QUOTE

Finding the exact location of a target in those situations will be incredibly difficult, especially at the ranges you are talking about.

The fact is there is no evidence anywhere in Star Wars to support the claim that ISD broadside turbolasers have a 15 LM range. Lucasbooks or whoever oked the project that said otherwise trusted that the author would make reasonable claims based on the data available to him, AKA the movies and EU material that was out at that time. Obviously they trusted him too much but that doesn't make what he said correct unless it is supported by something we see on screen, or in the new novels and comics. UNQUOTE

Comscan has very power detection equipment. But agian if hitting them using only the SD targeting is causing them problems then they will use the TIE Fighter / FC

Its aproved by LF ergo its canon just like the other bits of info thats added to all the tech books that are not mentioned in the other mediums.

1) Your to closed minded about situations in which these weapons can be used.

When you prove you've both actually read and comprehend what I said, I'll bother responding to your nonsense. Until then I don't see a reason.

Right back at you. You always assumed the fight was just between the 1 ISD and unnamed ship at those ranges instead of there being more than one and that the target always has unhindred movement.

The problem with your last point though IS they would have to capture a Venerator or new SD. Which rarely happend OR survive being attacked by such a weapon and understand what it is that attacked them.

2: There is no evidence that Kuat Drive Yards designed vessels have more power available then another ship of the same size. If Rendili Stardrive, Corellian Engineering Corporation, or the Mon Calamari built a 1,600 meter long warship class there is absolutely no reason to believe that their designs couldn't match an Imperial-class vessel's power output. When the Essential Guide to Warfare explained why Kuat Drive Yards got most of the Grand Army of the Republic, and Imperial warship contracts nothing was mentioned about Kuat Drive Yards having more efficient power generators.

My personal bias and assumptions at play here, I think all of them do have equal power output but I assume that each funnel their power into different areas. CEC probably puts their power into engines for speed. (CR-90 for example) Mon Cals seem to prefer shields, with the redundant generators they seem to install. Rendili probably invested their power into automating systems to reduce manpower (like the slave circuits on the Katana fleet). Kuat probably funnels more into weapons than the others. Star Destroyers aren't named that because it sounds so cool.

You do realise though that almost 4 CR-90s could fit in a ISD1 solar ionazation reactor? If there all equal than KDY would be extermly behind on reactor tech if 1 90 had the same reactor output. It would also mean if they used all that energy for traveling they r not thinking clearly because they could have used all that energy for shields.

I all ready posted this... ECM ECM and or close range fighting. Also the REBS would send A-Wings with there electronic attack capabilities to **** up Star Destroyers so they couldnt even fight period. TIE Bombers as well as Heavy TIE Bombers and TIE Interdictors have a electronic attack equipment that **** up antifighter weapons.

2) There lots of diffrent models of Turbo Lasers. They have shown them traveling at diffrent speeds. Lastly you dont know the speed in which the laser is traveling from the broadsides used on the ISD 1 and 2. You dont know the speed of the lasers from T& D6 turbos, XX-8 Heavy Turbos, and XX-9 Heavy Turbos. No where is it written that they travel at 60 mph. For all we know since Lasers r all ready heavly altered the ones fired from these cannons may fire lasers that travel close to 15 light min.

1. The New Republic had captured more than a "few" ISDs so it obviously couldn't have been as hard as you say it is.

2. My point is that Corellians place their emphasis on speed, the CR-90 being one example and Han brags about outrunning the Corellian ships, ergo they must be fast for such an accomplishment to be worth bragging about. If you believe I really was trying to suggest that a CR-90 has the same power production capabilities as a ship over 10x its size, you either are dumber than I give you credit for or you think I am dumber than I am

3. A-wings don't have the ECM abilities to shut down Star Destroyers, I don't know where you got that idea from or what/if you were smoking/drinking when you thought you read that but I want whatever it is.

4. Even in the Star Wars Universe the only thing capable of traveling faster than the speed of light is a hyperdrive, so like others have said AT A MINIMUM it would take 15 to hit a target 15 light min away

1) We werent talking about the New Republic, even then they would have little reason to change there tactics agianst the Empire since the RA tactics work pretty good.

2) Nether I assumed, correctly so, your just being combative. You havent said a thing about the other factions alternative tactics or weapons they use for long range engagments.

3) No not directly BUT they uses their electronic attack capabilities to **** up everything around the SD while they hit the SD with its missiles and then leaves. If the mission goes well the SD is side lined.

4) Tachyons move alot faster than light and by the time of the dark times era every fight has a composite sensor package, one of those sensors being tachyon projectors. There very well be other things that travel faster than light in SW

I know what others have said, the issue here is that one believes every signle turbo laser travels at 60mph, and they have no refrence to that ether, almost the rest believe that the broadsides cant exist because they dont know the other factions counters, and or if the IMPs have that laser tech everyone else must want it, even though that style of combat may seem pointless considering there own understanding of tactics agianst the empire.

I believe but none of them get anywhere near the speed of light and there is no evidence that the ISD's broadside guns fire bolts that do so.

even at the speed of light, you still couldn't hit anything that's not on a fixed orbit at 15LM. It's just mathematically impossible. The amount of area even a small cone would cover at that distance is staggering.

A 10 degree cone, would have an area of 8,770,880,000 KM.

Agian your being closed minded they r not firing with one cannon one beam per min. If this is a ISD2 it has 32 of these cannons perside and they can rapid fire these cannons at all locations that target could be at by the time the beams arive at that 15 lm distance. About the only time they couldnt hit them is IF they are jumping too hyperspace.

And what I said was that Kuat power generators aren't notably superior to scale. In other words a Kuat designed ship the size of a CR90 with the same size of reactor won't have a significantly greater amount of power available then the CR90 but also that a Corellian designed ship the size of an Imperial class Star Destroyer with the same size of reactor that an Imperial class ship has would not have a significantly lower amount of power available then the Imperial class ship has

I know what you said, I just dont see a refrence for it.

1) Range of anything vs a stationary target (especially space to ground borbardment) is significantly larger than effective combat range. So the fact you can hit the planet from low orbit (which I will point out is only a few hundred km not thousands - since why would you bombard from geosynchronous?) doesn't make combat ranges thousands of km.

2) Arguing with BKL on anything to do with star wars tech is a losing game. He is a complete idiot.

1) How about planetray defenses? By the Reb era, not that planets before that era didnt have some sort of defence, they have built huge ass anti cap turbo lasers which can easily go past the distance you wrote.

2) Cute, it must be hard on your mind that information that you thought was correct was really bull.

I had a quoting error but this is written too the person asking me about fire linking capabilities.

Yes IM talking about the beam itself changing direction. In the Clone Wars era they had only two fighters that had fire computer linking capabilities, the ARC-170 and the V-Wing. At those times though it was because the end or the whole cannon itself was mechanically movied. Some time between then and the Dark times laser technology improved so that the laser beam could be manipulated to change direction without manipulating the laser cannon structure. Thats why you see ships in the OT being able to fire in alternate angles.

What IM proposing is that these SD broadsides are using special equipment to maniplute the path of the laser during its time traveling too the target.

And again that's crazy. No laser or turbolaser has ever been shown changing course once its been fired except for in legends and those were being pulled off course by Vong defenses not being adjusted by the ship firing them to hit their target

2) Nether I assumed, correctly so, your just being combative. You havent said a thing about the other factions alternative tactics or weapons they use for long range engagments.

I am not trying to be combative I am merely just pointing our what I believe are gaps in your arguments or trying to defend my own opinions and thoughts.

The "Factions" I am referring to are the manufacturing companies and their design philosophies, they do not have "tactics for long range engagements" the Alliance/Empire/Whoever they sell their ships to have tactics, and yes I have stated that I feel the Corellian engineers favor speed, the Mon Cal engineers prefer shield strength, and Rendili could have preferred automation. These are choices for where I believe their "Discretionary" power was designed to go.

2) Nether I assumed, correctly so, your just being combative. You havent said a thing about the other factions alternative tactics or weapons they use for long range engagments.

I am not trying to be combative I am merely just pointing our what I believe are gaps in your arguments or trying to defend my own opinions and thoughts.

The "Factions" I am referring to are the manufacturing companies and their design philosophies, they do not have "tactics for long range engagements" the Alliance/Empire/Whoever they sell their ships to have tactics, and yes I have stated that I feel the Corellian engineers favor speed, the Mon Cal engineers prefer shield strength, and Rendili could have preferred automation. These are choices for where I believe their "Discretionary" power was designed to go.

Yeah certain shipwrights, whether corporations or individual designers, will believe that particular qualities lead to better warships, or will create ships designed for roles which call for a focus on boosting particular qualities in the design, Thus they will focus their designs on maximizing those qualities they feel me for the best design or those that suit their design's intended role. But the edge won't be to the point where one ship is thousands of times better then its counterparts designed by other shipwrights in the area or areas it focuses on which its rivals did not focus on.

I guarantee you that, collectively, we have already put more thought into these range values than the author of Incredible Cross-Sections did.

I believe but none of them get anywhere near the speed of light and there is no evidence that the ISD's broadside guns fire bolts that do so.

even at the speed of light, you still couldn't hit anything that's not on a fixed orbit at 15LM. It's just mathematically impossible. The amount of area even a small cone would cover at that distance is staggering.

A 10 degree cone, would have an area of 8,770,880,000 KM.

Agian your being closed minded they r not firing with one cannon one beam per min. If this is a ISD2 it has 32 of these cannons perside and they can rapid fire these cannons at all locations that target could be at by the time the beams arive at that 15 lm distance. About the only time they couldnt hit them is IF they are jumping too hyperspace.

Shall we do the maths on this?

Lets assume the following.

Turbo laser blasts travel at the speed of light.

Blasts cannot be re-targeted/adjusted in flight. (To be honest if we allow beam adjustment in transit you would NEVER miss)

I will allow perfect knowledge of target location at time of firing. We know SW universe has FTL communications. Be this through the fluff of the TIE/fc or on-board sensors is irrelevant.

We assume that the target only accelerates perpendicular to the line of fire. This makes the maths a bit easier and actually makes hitting the target easier (since if you allow target to change range it can dodge a fire pattern by being further or closer than expected and thus not being where the blast/beam will be).

We allow the target movement speeds of our target to be lets say 1% of the speed of light? At 2300G (acceleration of ISD2), you can reach this speed in around 2 minutes 10 seconds. So working from that the maximum distance a ship could travel would be 2.5million kilometres. (Yes you did read that correctly). And that distance is increasing by 3000km/s.

So we have a circle describing the where the target can be 15minutes after the weapons are fired. This circle has an area of 19.58million km^2. Now if we model the target ship as an ISD with diameter 2km (to allow for shields etc.) We have a target area of 3.14km^2. (This is 0.000016% of the target area.) So if we assume you want to get 1 hit from your guns. You need to cover each km^2 with 1/2 shot. That gives you (assuming a sensible distribution) a pretty much 100% chance to hit the target. As such you need to fire 10 million (yup that is correct - 10 million) shots in pretty much 0 time. So lets say we give you 10 seconds to fire your pattern the target area goes up a bit (by around 0.5 million km^2) so not much change there. The extra number of shots is kinda small relative to the total, so we'll let that slide too.

As such each barrel on the ISD2's broadside of 32 turbo-lasers would have to fire 31,250 shots per second for the whole 10 seconds.This to me seems like rather a high rate of fire. I mean sure if you want to believe that an ISD2 can fire each gun more than 30 thousand times per second go ahead. But I don't think anywhere in the SW Universe have we seen proof of that.

1) Range of anything vs a stationary target (especially space to ground bombardment) is significantly larger than effective combat range. So the fact you can hit the planet from low orbit (which I will point out is only a few hundred km not thousands - since why would you bombard from geosynchronous?) doesn't make combat ranges thousands of km.

2) Arguing with BKL on anything to do with star wars tech is a losing game. He is a complete idiot.

1) How about planetray defenses? By the Reb era, not that planets before that era didnt have some sort of defence, they have built huge ass anti cap turbo lasers which can easily go past the distance you wrote.

2) Cute, it must be hard on your mind that information that you thought was correct was really bull.

1) Again with planetary defences. You are firing from the surface, into low orbit. Attacking targets that are attacking you. Even at geosynchronous orbital altitudes you are no more than 40,000 km away. So at speed of light that is 0.13s. So maximum deviation from current predicted location (since given we know position and speed we can predict the location - we are only interested in the location difference) is around 199km. That assumes you accelerate at 2300G as soon as the shot is fired. So it is possible you could use them at those ranges, but against targets in low orbit they are much more likely to be effective.

2) See the above. I unlike you do not make statements without backing them up. So if you want to call my maths bull and think it is cute when I school you, go ahead. I'm enjoying pointing out your mistakes and I am really really bored at work today! So no skin off my nose.

Just so you know, guys, i was NOT saying that i don't want them to be included. As an avid Imperial player of course i want them. I'm just saying that compared to the Corvette or even the Neb B it has a lot more firepower.

Shall we do the maths on this?

Nice job on the math there. But the fact is he still won't accept it, or will come up with some BS reason why it could work, like they're stealth bolts that the other ship can't see coming... Or just ignore it since it proves him wrong.

Arguing with BKL on SW Tech is like trying to knock down a brick wall with your head. You won't accomplish anything but get a headache. Although schooling him like you did can be entertaining and you can at least see some appreciation on your effort from the rest of us.

The problem is, BKL has massive problems with reading comprehension... Just look at how he mentioned 60mph for Turbolasers like 3 or 4 times, despite the fact I never said such a thing. I assume he has the same problem when he reads the tech manuals.

See I could buy that a ISD 2 had guns with a 15LM range, that if they didn't encounter anything they could travel for that far before dissipating. But short of a fixed orbit, we all know they can't hit anything...

Just so you know, guys, i was NOT saying that i don't want them to be included.

We know

I don't think there's anything wrong with including ISD's in the game. Sure they'll be powerful, but they'll also cost a lot of points, I'd say somewhere in the 100-125 range.

Give the ISD say 3 red, 3 blue and 3 black dice front arc and I'd say that would feel right, but not be game breaking.

Shall we do the maths on this?

Nice job on the math there. But the fact is he still won't accept it, or will come up with some BS reason why it could work, like they're stealth bolts that the other ship can't see coming... Or just ignore it since it proves him wrong.

Arguing with BKL on SW Tech is like trying to knock down a brick wall with your head. You won't accomplish anything but get a headache. Although schooling him like you did can be entertaining and you can at least see some appreciation on your effort from the rest of us.

The problem is, BKL has massive problems with reading comprehension... Just look at how he mentioned 60mph for Turbolasers like 3 or 4 times, despite the fact I never said such a thing. I assume he has the same problem when he reads the tech manuals.

See I could buy that a ISD 2 had guns with a 15LM range, that if they didn't encounter anything they could travel for that far before dissipating. But short of a fixed orbit, we all know they can't hit anything...

Of course arguing with him will never change his view. But hopefully others will get to see his lack of arguments being de-constructed. That is totally worth it!

As to the range. I guess the biggest issue is not beam spreading (which would be a huge issue), but more accurate aiming. Even with a stationary target you are talking about infinitesimal adjustments at firing point leading to large or huge changes in impact point. Clearly less important when doing bombardment than intra-ship combat.

Just so you know, guys, i was NOT saying that i don't want them to be included.

We know

I don't think there's anything wrong with including ISD's in the game. Sure they'll be powerful, but they'll also cost a lot of points, I'd say somewhere in the 100-125 range.

Give the ISD say 3 red, 3 blue and 3 black dice front arc and I'd say that would feel right, but not be game breaking.

I'm not sure what you would give an ISD or ISD2 yet. Till I have actually played, not sure what I think would be sensible. Need to have a good think about it. But I do think that the weapons will be balanced to the cost. I expect ISD2 to be around 140 points to prevent you running more than 1. ISD1 might be 125ish so you could run 2 with Commander + a couple of fighters/upgrades.

I don't think there's anything wrong with including ISD's in the game. Sure they'll be powerful, but they'll also cost a lot of points, I'd say somewhere in the 100-125 range.

Give the ISD say 3 red, 3 blue and 3 black dice front arc and I'd say that would feel right, but not be game breaking.

I'm not sure what you would give an ISD or ISD2 yet. Till I have actually played, not sure what I think would be sensible. Need to have a good think about it. But I do think that the weapons will be balanced to the cost. I expect ISD2 to be around 140 points to prevent you running more than 1. ISD1 might be 125ish so you could run 2 with Commander + a couple of fighters/upgrades.

I was actually thinking closer to 140-150 range so you can't have 2 when you include the commander tax, (Personally I would like 2 but as we've seen from X-wing too many "large ships" can make the game less fun and might cause them to question it, also ISDs are supposed to be 2x as big and have 2x the weapons of a VSD so double the points isn't an unreasonable guess)

I would venture 4 Red 2 Blue 3 Black, and probably 4(maybe 5) shields front and sides and 12 Hull with an Engineering value of 4-5 we don't know for sure what it does but I assume higher is better, my guess is the higher it is the more dice you can roll per repair command (just a guess that you roll something for repairs and get x+dice results) or you get X points to repair based on you X engineering value (maybe a limit of either doing shields or hull not both or you can only repair 1-2 per facing or something). Anti Squadron will be 2 (maybe even as low as 1) the bigger the ship the harder it is to defend against star fighters, probably a fairly high squadron rating as well and a command value of 3 maybe pushing 4(It appears every time a ship "doubles" its length you gain a command (CR90 1- Neb B 2 - VSD 3)

And again that's crazy. No laser or turbolaser has ever been shown changing course once its been fired except for in legends and those were being pulled off course by Vong defenses not being adjusted by the ship firing them to hit their target

Check out anh and rotj lots of the fighters are firing lasers at diffrent angles than the aoa of the craft. I also brought this up on the xwing forums. One of the writters of the rebels show and some other sw medium has said that legends is still canon too disney wars unless parts are contradicted. So now its secondary canon.

2) Nether I assumed, correctly so, your just being combative. You havent said a thing about the other factions alternative tactics or weapons they use for long range engagments.

I am not trying to be combative I am merely just pointing our what I believe are gaps in your arguments or trying to defend my own opinions and thoughts.

The "Factions" I am referring to are the manufacturing companies and their design philosophies, they do not have "tactics for long range engagements" the Alliance/Empire/Whoever they sell their ships to have tactics, and yes I have stated that I feel the Corellian engineers favor speed, the Mon Cal engineers prefer shield strength, and Rendili could have preferred automation. These are choices for where I believe their "Discretionary" power was designed to go.

I believe but none of them get anywhere near the speed of light and there is no evidence that the ISD's broadside guns fire bolts that do so.

even at the speed of light, you still couldn't hit anything that's not on a fixed orbit at 15LM. It's just mathematically impossible. The amount of area even a small cone would cover at that distance is staggering.

A 10 degree cone, would have an area of 8,770,880,000 KM.

Agian your being closed minded they r not firing with one cannon one beam per min. If this is a ISD2 it has 32 of these cannons perside and they can rapid fire these cannons at all locations that target could be at by the time the beams arive at that 15 lm distance. About the only time they couldnt hit them is IF they are jumping too hyperspace.

Shall we do the maths on this?

Lets assume the following.

Turbo laser blasts travel at the speed of light.

Blasts cannot be re-targeted/adjusted in flight. (To be honest if we allow beam adjustment in transit you would NEVER miss)

I will allow perfect knowledge of target location at time of firing. We know SW universe has FTL communications. Be this through the fluff of the TIE/fc or on-board sensors is irrelevant.

We assume that the target only accelerates perpendicular to the line of fire. This makes the maths a bit easier and actually makes hitting the target easier (since if you allow target to change range it can dodge a fire pattern by being further or closer than expected and thus not being where the blast/beam will be).

We allow the target movement speeds of our target to be lets say 1% of the speed of light? At 2300G (acceleration of ISD2), you can reach this speed in around 2 minutes 10 seconds. So working from that the maximum distance a ship could travel would be 2.5million kilometres. (Yes you did read that correctly). And that distance is increasing by 3000km/s.

So we have a circle describing the where the target can be 15minutes after the weapons are fired. This circle has an area of 19.58million km^2. Now if we model the target ship as an ISD with diameter 2km (to allow for shields etc.) We have a target area of 3.14km^2. (This is 0.000016% of the target area.) So if we assume you want to get 1 hit from your guns. You need to cover each km^2 with 1/2 shot. That gives you (assuming a sensible distribution) a pretty much 100% chance to hit the target. As such you need to fire 10 million (yup that is correct - 10 million) shots in pretty much 0 time. So lets say we give you 10 seconds to fire your pattern the target area goes up a bit (by around 0.5 million km^2) so not much change there. The extra number of shots is kinda small relative to the total, so we'll let that slide too.

As such each barrel on the ISD2's broadside of 32 turbo-lasers would have to fire 31,250 shots per second for the whole 10 seconds.This to me seems like rather a high rate of fire. I mean sure if you want to believe that an ISD2 can fire each gun more than 30 thousand times per second go ahead. But I don't think anywhere in the SW Universe have we seen proof of that.

1) Range of anything vs a stationary target (especially space to ground bombardment) is significantly larger than effective combat range. So the fact you can hit the planet from low orbit (which I will point out is only a few hundred km not thousands - since why would you bombard from geosynchronous?) doesn't make combat ranges thousands of km.

2) Arguing with BKL on anything to do with star wars tech is a losing game. He is a complete idiot.

1) How about planetray defenses? By the Reb era, not that planets before that era didnt have some sort of defence, they have built huge ass anti cap turbo lasers which can easily go past the distance you wrote.

2) Cute, it must be hard on your mind that information that you thought was correct was really bull.

1) Again with planetary defences. You are firing from the surface, into low orbit. Attacking targets that are attacking you. Even at geosynchronous orbital altitudes you are no more than 40,000 km away. So at speed of light that is 0.13s. So maximum deviation from current predicted location (since given we know position and speed we can predict the location - we are only interested in the location difference) is around 199km. That assumes you accelerate at 2300G as soon as the shot is fired. So it is possible you could use them at those ranges, but against targets in low orbit they are much more likely to be effective.

2) See the above. I unlike you do not make statements without backing them up. So if you want to call my maths bull and think it is cute when I school you, go ahead. I'm enjoying pointing out your mistakes and I am really really bored at work today! So no skin off my nose.

ons are to fire at. Just in display we have better track while scan capabilities. As I posted before your assuming again this is a one on one fight and that the rebel ship is at full

g with no o

ther factors effecting its aoa.

2) The reason you don't want to fire so close too the planet is because its defence weapons are nearly good enoght to one shoot kill theship/s attacking it. At longer ranges you stand abeter chance of evading the mechanical tracking capabilities of most anti cap planetary weapons except there missiles and torps.

3). You don't teror up my posts... In the past you've enjoyed trying toterror apart canonical information, while at the same time neglicting to adress other tidbits of information to make your point look true, and that was before you decided to stalke me on the ffg forums, which is geting ******* old. Any time someone has posted something that shoots your points down you become a ass hole or go ******* nutts like that one time I shoot down your false point about sw lasers

and blasters being plasma. On top of that you have attacked mechanical engineers as

well as other experts in there fields. I don't care if you really have taken acoustic engineering cources as a minor in college and have a good understanding of the currently mainstream understanding of physics you got what it takes to be innovative.

And again that's crazy. No laser or turbolaser has ever been shown changing course once its been fired except for in legends and those were being pulled off course by Vong defenses not being adjusted by the ship firing them to hit their target

Check out anh and rotj lots of the fighters are firing lasers at diffrent angles than the aoa of the craft. I also brought this up on the xwing forums. One of the writters of the rebels show and some other sw medium has said that legends is still canon too disney wars unless parts are contradicted. So now its secondary canon.

Did you even bother to read what I said? I specifically said that we have never seen a laser bolt change course when its flying through space. What angle the cannon was at when it fired has nothing to do with what I said. Laser bolts and Turbolaser bolts are not homing weapons so once they have been fired they do not turn to follow the target if the target evades.