Creepy isn't funny in this context.

The fact that there was nothing remotely explicit in no way changes the fact that the first thing I read from you on this thread was... About sex. And not just about sex generally, but about sex _with you_.

Let me be clear: I'm not offended by your farts. I'm more perplexed as to why you didn't excuse yourself from the dinner table first. Nor can I understand why you insist there is no smell.

You were offended by the PA comic? You don't have to appreciate my sense of humor, but you also don't have to pretend like a re-posted comic has anything to do with you and me on a personal level.

Now, I did apologize, so your analogy falls a bit flat. I'm just wondering why all the hubbub, since I've made it clear (or I'm in the process of trying to make it clear) that my comments aren't being received as intended.

Actually, I don't really think of it as a question of permission. But its kind of a creepy thing to say, no? And also, girls get this type of comment a lot?

This tends to be the first thing that off-puts them from joining a "boys-club" as these geeky things tend to be.

Of course it's creepy. It wouldn't be funny if I was being serious, though it seems my sense of humor is lost here anyway.

There is a thing called Poe's Law (http://goo.gl/Tt7EW7) that you might find useful. The short version is that it is often impossible to tell the difference between someone being fake-creepy for a laugh, and someone being creepy-creepy because they're a creep.

I think women are turned off by this stupid arguing. Every one knows don't feed a troll. If you perceive a problem report it and move on.

There is a thing called Poe's Law (http://goo.gl/Tt7EW7) that you might find useful. The short version is that it is often impossible to tell the difference between someone being fake-creepy for a laugh, and someone being creepy-creepy because they're a creep.

Have you ever seen me post before?

I think women are turned off by this stupid arguing. Every one knows don't feed a troll. If you perceive a problem report it and move on.

I don't think he was trolling. It was a joke in bad taste. We've all done it. I agree with moving on.

I don't think he needs to be reported. Besides, we all learn and I need to laugh sometimes.

I think we should just drop it too.

The fact that there was nothing remotely explicit in no way changes the fact that the first thing I read from you on this thread was... About sex. And not just about sex generally, but about sex _with you_.

Let me be clear: I'm not offended by your farts. I'm more perplexed as to why you didn't excuse yourself from the dinner table first. Nor can I understand why you insist there is no smell.

You were offended by the PA comic? You don't have to appreciate my sense of humor, but you don't have to pretend like a re-posted comic has anything to do with you and I.

Now, I did apologize, so your analogy doesn't quite strike me as accurate. I'm just wondering why all the hubbub, since I've made it clear (or in the process of trying to make it clear) that my comments aren't being received as intended.

Also: we're trying to explain to you how to avoid doing the same thing in the future. I'll grant that you are not being understood as intended. If that's the case, let's teach you how to make the joke you want to make.

I'm the guy who makes his Jewish relatives laugh at Holocaust jokes. I wooed my now-wife with some of the darkest humor you can imagine. I'm not afraid to go "there". But I do know that the secrets are timing, and only making fun of the people who have the power to hurt you.

I don't think he needs to be reported. Besides, we all learn and I need to laugh sometimes.

I think we should just drop it too.

Hey, if people are that offended then please, do it. I wish we had a better moderator presence here. I apologized, I've tried to explain to people what my thought process was to help calm the conversation (not provide excuses, as some might suspect), and I'm trying to figure out just which nerve I struck and why. If despite all of that people still feel the need to report me, I won't object. That having been said, my joke may have been in poor taste (lord knows I've done worse), but it certainly wasn't intended to inflame people.

2 things: I generally find Penny Arcade amusing, but I don't see your link to them.

Also: we're trying to explain to you how to avoid doing the same thing in the future. I'll grant that you are not being understood as intended. If that's the case, let's teach you how to make the joke you want to make.

I'm the guy who makes his Jewish relatives laugh at Holocaust jokes. I wooed my now-wife with some of the darkest humor you can imagine. I'm not afraid to go "there". But I do know that the secrets are timing, and only making fun of the people who have the power to hurt you.

Bottom of page 5. If by your previous comment you think I was actually, legitimately propositioning your wives, you are way, way off base. It may have been creepy, but it was in no way sexual. There are ways of getting that point across, in written form, if that's what I had wanted to do.

This would be a great time to take that discussion to the PM.

Besides, I think the thread had its day.

This would be a great time to take that discussion to the PM.

Besides, I think the thread had its day.

Maybe it's a good lesson for other people to learn.

Actually it feels like you're trying to cover up the harm done. Your apology doesn't seem very sincere if you then continue by not considering why people raised objections to your humor.

Also it's a joke has been said to nary effect more than any other line in the history of dealing with men in male dominated areas.

Actually it feels like you're trying to cover up the harm done. Your apology doesn't seem very sincere if you then continue by not considering why people raised objections to your humor.

Also it's a joke has been said to nary effect more than any other line in the history of dealing with men in male dominated areas.

I am very much considering it, hence why I'm asking questions and soliciting feedback. I also feel like my comment was very much misunderstood, hence my explanation. Do you not believe me when I tell you what I was saying, and why?

Back to topic:

My wife loves to play games. Ghost Stories, Pandemic, King of Tokyo, Bang the dice game, Summoner Wars, Level 7 (Omega protocol), Eldritch Horror and just about every RPG system out there. (currently Star Wars; EotE by the way)

Unfortunately (?) she has very little interest in miniatures games somehow. But she is about to try Star Wars the LCG and she did mention she'd try X-wing at some point. So there is hope. And even if she does not like it there is plenty of other games we like to play together. (no cheeky double meanings intended but it could not be helped)

Also note that I have a mere 52 (or 54?) inch Sony with 5.1 surround system.

Yet oddly enough I do not feel like losing.

I will have you know, I have knitted an X-Wing doily. So even though your example is funny there are men out there that are straight that know how to knit.

what? No pic?

I think we all want to see that

I don't have a wife. Can I play with one of yours?

Please be respectful.

This comment is a good example of how, at a minimum, a like / dislike / rating system could be very beneficial, especially if the dislikes are anonymous.

As a bonus, being able to set the minimum viewing threshold to 0 would be nice to filter out the -1's.

Wow... This one came off the rails pretty hard after I shut down for the night. Sigh. I thought I got what WW was trying to do with his response last night, which was why it didn't necessarily bother me that much.

Part of the problem is that sarcasm doesn't translate well to the Internet. I'm not trying to make excuses for the remark, but I felt like it was a tongue in cheek attempt to add a bit of levity to what had been several pages of mostly, if not exclusively serious responses. I guess it's why I try to avoid sarcasm in my posts as much as I can.

Wow... This one came off the rails pretty hard after I shut down for the night.

We're past that. Let's either get back on the topic now or let the thread drop.

so,

BACK ON TOPIC

In many cases, it does read like many of our wives don't have much interest in miniature battles games. I think that's perfectly fine, even if disappointing at times. I don't think any of us want to force people into this game against their will. I just don't want women to feel excluded from something they would otherwise enjoy.

In November, I'll be hosting a library event in which I explain the game to a teenage audience, which I presume will have roughly as many girls as boys attending. (My wife is the youth librarian at that branch, but I may also be doing the same program at other branch libraries.) I'll probably be posting about that in a month or so trying to get people's ideas for what to do.

For right now, I would like to open up discussion on the topic of how women might enjoy a somewhat different flavor of X-Wing. We've already talked about competitiveness. It's clear that many of the women posting here have said that they're plenty competitive. Also, it's been posted that the downside of competitiveness is when men express their aggravation at losing (to a gurl!) in less-than-polite ways. So, I think it would be a thought to take the edge off the competitiveness.

Any ideas?

For my part, I'm not hyper-competitive. I do like winning, don't get me wrong, but I don't live and breathe for victory. So, this is not just a gender issue. I do like narrative stakes, which I think this game doesn't tend to have enough of, despite all the missions that FFG has brought along with the game. I wonder if women players are structurally more likely to agree with me on this than male players are. If so, I think that might be an avenue worth exploring. (Also, it would give me even more justification for doing what I would otherwise advocate for anyway. )

Western culture teaches men to be more aggressive and competitive than women, but board game geeks tend to break that mold, at least somewhat.

My wife likens miniatures war gaming to playing dolls that men can get into.

My wife plays X wing, chooses her own lists etc, she clearly enjoys the game or she just wouldnt play it.

She also has a warhammer 3rd edition list High Elf army and she paints as well as i do.

She prefers board games to be honest like dungeonquest, curse of the mummys tomb.... all those 80s classics.

We also do WWII and Cold War living history re-enactment together.

She's a pretty cool chick.

Oh and we both like lego!

same woman as WWII Canadian war correspondent (just had black hair back then)

Here with me as a war co and her 'pioneer sgt' husband.

Sian with my section. she portrays Womens Royal Army Corp, we're an 80s British rifle section

Sense of humour essential, fancy dress party as silk specre and rorscarch

and our wedding with lego cake!

On the whole i consider myself a very lucky man. She's funny, clever, pretty and gamer/larper, we're in a band toghether ... all round win!

But her gaming style... quite competitive, plays to win but isnt interested in tournys (known to sulk a bit if she loses too).

Like rules to be clear cut but is happy to 'fly casual' and remind you if you forget an action etc.

She still wins most games.

In a recent game she flew rebels and with only one mauled xwing on the board vs my three pristine TIE's she was going to concede a defeat... i said 'no play on' , wanting a real definite kill on wedge...

that went badly, i banged howlrunner into an asteroid, mucked up a lot of decisions and several turns later a mauled wedge sailed off with TIE wreckage in his wake

Western culture teaches men to be more aggressive and competitive than women, ...

I disagree with this. I think it's actually quite the opposite.

"Western culture" is a stand-in for modern culture. Aggressive and competitive behavior on the part of men, on the other hand, is a facet of traditional culture. I might grant you that the industrial revolution brought about a greater separation of gender roles, but the 20th century fundamentally changed the trajectory on that. We, in the West, are actually on the cutting edge of gender inclusiveness. It's just that many of us lament that we still have such a long way to go.

... but board game geeks tend to break that mold, at least somewhat.

I do agree with this. There's something inclusive about geeks/nerds, but there's also a dark side to this which involves insecurity. Unfortunately, the a priori gender imbalance is something that's tough to break, despite the overall culture of inclusiveness of nerds. Maybe that's because the reputation of association (who you hang out with, and how you are judged on that) is something that is more important for girls (especially at the teenage years, when hobbies get started).

On the whole i consider myself a very lucky man. She's funny, clever, pretty and gamer/larper, we're in a band toghether ... all round win!

Yes, all round win. You are a VERY lucky man.

I have indeed gotten my wife to play and enjoy this game, though it doesn't come up too often to be honest. It's this and mario kart on occasion too, other than that, no nerdy pursuits at all for her, though she is ok with genre tv and movies which is good for me. Hell, my dad played a game of x-wing. This game is unprecedented accessible in my experience so far...

I guess a good way to think of it is to imagine that you, as a man, wanted to try and get into an activity that is traditionally or stereotypically considered feminine/pursued mostly by women. Take a dumb example like, I don't know, knitting. Obviously, I'm not saying all women knit or anything like that; I just wanted to use something that most people would consider to be stereotypically a woman's interest. So, you sign up to go to a knitting club, because to your knowledge, none of your friends knit. When you arrive there though, you find that everyone or almost everyone else present is a woman. They're all happily chatting away, clearly super into it; discussing the merits of different types of yarn, the latest knitting needle set to come out and what new opportunities it opens up, etc. (okay, I may be taking this analogy a bit far ). I imagine that, even if you genuinely love knitting, and even if you know that your knowledge of the hobby is on the same level, you may still feel nervous and/or a bit ridiculous going in there and trying to fit in. You may worry that people won't take you seriously, or may worry about what your friends might think given that there is a social stigma attached to a man doing something like knitting.

The question you have to ask yourself then is, what would you want the women at this knitting club and the knitting community as a whole to do to make you feel less awkward and able to fully enjoy yourself?