I will have you know, I have knitted an X-Wing doily. So even though your example is funny there are men out there that are straight that know how to knit.

And I'm a woman who plays X-wing. It's definitely tongue in cheek, but the whole point is kind of people exist against all stereotypes. I know lots of male knitters.

But to bring something on topic. From my experience with girls and gaming (Mind you it is only 20 years or so experience) It is very uncomfortable for many women to be in a store being gawked at by men who have only ever heard about or read about women either from school or Wikipedia.

Texas! Well, Austin. Which isn't really Texas in some ways...

Which really isn't Texas in many ways. (I used to live in San Antonio.)

Unfortunately, I have a hard time with the HOW as well, since the groups around me have been in that critical mass stage since before I started, and I got into the gaming because I was inherently interested. It isn't something that can really be forced (you can't just go and say "I want more female gamers. Let's plot how to draw them in.")

I do take your point here. The reason for my inquiry is that it feels like the male gamer environment might be uninclusive. The knitting circle, I think, would probably be more inclusive, were I to want to go. (I did used to knit, a long, long time ago.)

You will quickly correct me if I have it wrong, but the FLGS and the knitting circle are not quite equivalent, because the history of empowerment is different. Guys don't exclude women because they feel threatened by them. Not directly in any case. Women's groups, on the other hand, frequently form as a sanctuary against boorish men. I realize it's not as clear-cut as all that, but it does seem to get at the heart of the matter.

Regarding the "learn to play" workshops, I'll be hosting one at my wife's library in a few months, aimed at teens. Hopefully, that can be gender inclusive from the very start.

I started my girl playing it because she mentioned she liked playing games and we've played a few times. She's hyper-competitive and pretty fearless when it comes to most things and now she is bugging me to play. I don't know for sure that it is because she really likes it that much yet or if she is just wanting to do something with me that I like. I really hope that she genuinely likes it. There are already other ladies that play at my LGS, but I'm not sure I wan to push it that far yet. It's still a hyper-competitive environment and she is very competitive herself. If she got beat bad she might never want to play again.

I'm thinking that if we want more girl gamers in mini's games we are going to need to raise a generation of them. The problem with that is outside forces will still probably drag many of them away. It is hard to buck the cultural trends.

I don't have time right now to respond to all of the awesome discussion in this thread, but I wanted to say thank you for starting it and to those who are contributing. There are a lot of good thoughts in here, and I will definitely be revisiting later (and reading in the mean time!).

My sister loves to play X Wing when I visit her but I’m still working on getting my wife to play. She at least lets me buy expansions every payday.

I played one game with my wife she won and still thinks the game is stupid. The only board game ive seen her have fun playing is manopoly. she also thinks the movies are stupid, i spend way to much money on this game and way to much time away from her and the kids playing games (once a week if im luckly). I tell her its not a game its a war agianst the evil opperssion of the empire. She just rolls her eyes. Somehow I still love her

the good news is our kids like to sit there and watch the movies and roll dice so in a few years it will be fun to play with them

Wow! I think this is one of, if not THE most interesting discussion I have seen on any of the boards I troll. Kudos to the OP and everyone who have contributed.

My wife isn't a gamer. Much. We've played stuff together on the GameCube and Wii. We've played Rock Band together on the 360. Tabletop games, though? Forget it. I've never tried getting her into RPGs, and don't plan on trying. I am, however, planning on introducing her to Puerto Rico, one of these nights.

This is my first minis experience, so I can't speak to much of that. We're both SW fans, though. Haven't tried getting her into X-Wing either, yet.

The main reason I bought the game, however, was the opportunity to eventually get my kids into gaming. 2 girls and a newborn boy, for those keeping score. Yes, they will all be exposed to the OT before long. Hopefully, that's my in.

I will say, based on my experience with FRPGs, both at home and at cons, that I've been fortunate to be able to say that I have not played in d--k groups, where women are concerned. Very little misogynistic BS that I can recall. If anything, all the groups I've played in at cons in particular, have seen the guys playing tentatively around the women, until we get a feel for the boundaries. As soon as the ladies do something totally incredible in game, or some such, it's go time, and they just become another player. Lots of fun.

I want my daughters to be able to think strategically and creatively. I don't want them to feel like they don't belong in an environment that happens to be predominantly male. As they get older, I look forward to having family game nights, so everyone can have fun and learn to fly casual. I want them to love the game, and not just winning. I want them to be comfortable in social settings, and not tied to their cell phones, living in a world of text messages, social media, and other activities that don't promote true interpersonal social interaction. I'm sure my wants will backfire in my face, but I'm looking forward to the ride.

Do I sound old, BTW?

I don't have a wife. Can I play with one of yours?

I don't have a wife, but I have a 50" TV,XBox One, Doulby 5.1 surround system and black out curtains.

Who's the real winner here?

I've got all that, plus a wife who does esports for a living.

Me. I'm the real winner here.

Also: I don't get the comment (on page 1) about nerd women being rare. In my experience, they're roughly as rare as nerd dudes. Can't hardly have a game night without a bunch of nerd ladies kicking your ass at a game you thought you were good at.

If these so called "nerd women" aren't so rare then where are you from?! Down here in the south it seems they are few and far between.

I lived in the Bay Area for most of my life. Just moved to Santa Monica last month, for wife's aforementioned job.

My last restaurant had an incredibly nerdy wait staff. Most of us were playing games when we weren't working. Funny enough: there were a lot of dude-nerds who would tell the lady-nerds that lady-nerds _did not exist_. And so the lady-nerds would simply not talk about nerd things with those guys.

And then there was the time a former-beauty-queen coworker and I nerded out about Star Wars. Where are the Nerd women? Everywhere I look.

The key (and this is a general life tip), is to be who you are, unashamedly. While being who you are, create the space for others to unashamedly be who they are. I don't know bupkiss about cars, but I love listening to my wife's uncle nerd out about them. I don't know anything about anime, but my wife is a huge fan. What I know about physics would fail high school, but I love listening to my buddy Phil get passionate.

And when I start talking about History, or Political Theory, it's fair exchange. Because passion is awesome.

There are definitely more female gamers around now then when I was young and single. I'm always saying to myself "where were these girls when I was younger." I'll admit it I gawk at half way attractive woman at the game store.

Going back to what some one else said about raising a new generation of gamers, I believe that's what it really boils down to, exposure. When my dad was in the Army back in the 70's he started playing Napoleonic wargames. I still remember painting my first miniature when I was 5 back in 1982. It was an Airfix Scottish highlander, which I still have, along with all the Napoleonics my dad painted.

Miniature gaming; aside from historical; and rpgs were so small back in the 70's, 80's, and 90's, not many people knew about it. There weren't many games stores back then, we used to actually order miniatures from catalogues, even GW stuff

When my wife and I met in 2001 she had no idea gaming existed.My wife will play regular traditional board games,but doesn't like to play anything deemed a wargame not even LoTR Risk. She can't stand it when I put anything about military history on tv.

While my wife is a lost cause I still have 2 boys and 2 girls to convert to this subculture.

The miniature hobby is still young and in the dark, it will get better in the future.

My wife loves the game and would play more often if we didn't have three children under 4. She's not into tournaments or the forums, though. My obsession is stronger.

I don't have a wife. Can I play with one of yours?

I feel pretty strongly that this is the exact kind of vaguely skeezy stuff that makes it undesirable to be the first female to join a gaming group. It's couched in "it's just a joke, lighten up" deniability, but the underlying theme is "interaction with a woman is predicated on permission from her husband." Plus, there's the whole sexual undertone to the word "play" adding another layer.

Obviously, not all women are put off by this kind of behavior, but my money would be on it being a non-trivial filter.

And like I said in the Howlrunner thread, it's not the content that's objectionable, it's the fora. Dark, twisted humor is great in the privacy of one's own home, but in a public space like this, it's not cool.

So, please stop.

I don't have a wife. Can I play with one of yours?

I feel pretty strongly that this is the exact kind of vaguely skeezy stuff that makes it undesirable to be the first female to join a gaming group. It's couched in "it's just a joke, lighten up" deniability, but the underlying theme is "interaction with a woman is predicated on permission from her husband." Plus, there's the whole sexual undertone to the word "play" adding another layer.

Obviously, not all women are put off by this kind of behavior, but my money would be on it being a non-trivial filter.

And like I said in the Howlrunner thread, it's not the content that's objectionable, it's the fora. Dark, twisted humor is great in the privacy of one's own home, but in a public space like this, it's not cool.

So, please stop.

Wonder, that joke was not funny, was really creepy, and was misogynistic as WickedGrey said. Also, it does exactly what WickedGrey says: makes it even harder for the rest of us to help bring more women to the game.

Can you please stop? You are crossing the line into rude.

I feel pretty strongly that this is the exact kind of vaguely skeezy stuff that makes it undesirable to be the first female to join a gaming group. It's couched in "it's just a joke, lighten up" deniability, but the underlying theme is "interaction with a woman is predicated on permission from her husband." Plus, there's the whole sexual undertone to the word "play" adding another layer.

Obviously, not all women are put off by this kind of behavior, but my money would be on it being a non-trivial filter.

And like I said in the Howlrunner thread, it's not the content that's objectionable, it's the fora. Dark, twisted humor is great in the privacy of one's own home, but in a public space like this, it's not cool.

So, please stop.

There's a world of difference between "giving permission" and being confident enough to let your other half play with the boys. If a woman is that put off by my comment, I'd say there are some deeper issues at work. If you're offended on her behalf, that's just as sexist.

Also: it was just a joke. Please lighten up.

I don't have a wife. Can I play with one of yours?

I feel pretty strongly that this is the exact kind of vaguely skeezy stuff that makes it undesirable to be the first female to join a gaming group. It's couched in "it's just a joke, lighten up" deniability, but the underlying theme is "interaction with a woman is predicated on permission from her husband." Plus, there's the whole sexual undertone to the word "play" adding another layer.Obviously, not all women are put off by this kind of behavior, but my money would be on it being a non-trivial filter.And like I said in the Howlrunner thread, it's not the content that's objectionable, it's the fora. Dark, twisted humor is great in the privacy of one's own home, but in a public space like this, it's not cool.So, please stop.

This.

This.

A thousand times this.

I'll go so far as to say that it's not even any single comment, but the shear proliferation of comments. Ladies put up with more BS walking down the street than dudes put up with in 4 years of High School.

If you wouldn't say it to a dude you don't know, don't say it to a lady you don't know.

There's a world of difference between "giving permission" and being confident enough to let your other half play with the boys. If a woman is that put off by my comment, I'd say there are some deeper issues at work. If you're offended on her behalf, that's just as sexist.

Also: it was just a joke. Please lighten up.

Dude, I've usually stood by you with your troll-hunting, but WickedGrey, and Blail are right. A few posters are new here, and seem to have been drawn in by the topic, because it applies to them. You might be thinking you're being ironic (I don't know, maybe?), but they don't know you, and they probably don't get that you might be play-acting, or whatever you're attempting.

Honestly, I had expected trolls to come out of the woodwork (or from under their cyber bridge) and I expected you would chase them off with some blunt quips. I didn't think you would provide the semblance of representing them.

*sigh*

If you guys are really that upset by my tongue in cheek comment, then I apologize.

I feel pretty strongly that this is the exact kind of vaguely skeezy stuff that makes it undesirable to be the first female to join a gaming group. It's couched in "it's just a joke, lighten up" deniability, but the underlying theme is "interaction with a woman is predicated on permission from her husband." Plus, there's the whole sexual undertone to the word "play" adding another layer.

Obviously, not all women are put off by this kind of behavior, but my money would be on it being a non-trivial filter.

And like I said in the Howlrunner thread, it's not the content that's objectionable, it's the fora. Dark, twisted humor is great in the privacy of one's own home, but in a public space like this, it's not cool.

So, please stop.

There's a world of difference between "giving permission" and being confident enough to let your other half play with the boys. If a woman is that put off by my comment, I'd say there are some deeper issues at work. If you're offended on her behalf, that's just as sexist.

Also: it was just a joke. Please lighten up.

We've illustrated that this joke is offensive and not funny. "Its just a joke" is said about as many times as "The sample size is too small".

There's a world of difference between "giving permission" and being confident enough to let your other half play with the boys. If a woman is that put off by my comment, I'd say there are some deeper issues at work. If you're offended on her behalf, that's just as sexist.

Also: it was just a joke. Please lighten up.

Dude, I've usually stood by you with your troll-hunting, but WickedGrey, and Blail are right. A few posters are new here, and seem to have been drawn in by the topic, because it applies to them. You might be thinking you're being ironic (I don't know, maybe?), but they don't know you, and they probably don't get that you might be play-acting, or whatever you're attempting.

Honestly, I had expected trolls to come out of the woodwork (or from under their cyber bridge) and I expected you would chase them off with some blunt quips. I didn't think you would provide the semblance of representing them.

How on earth are you guys going to be able to let your wives play with other people if you can't handle a simple comment to that effect? You're saying that they don't need your permission or protection, but that's exactly what you're doing. There wasn't even anything remotely explicit about it. I'm honestly rather perplexed where the offense is stemming from.

How on earth are you guys going to be able to let your wives play with other people if you can't handle a simple comment to that effect? You're saying that they don't need your permission or protection, but that's exactly what you're doing. There wasn't even anything remotely explicit about it.

Actually, I don't really think of it as a question of permission. But its kind of a creepy thing to say, no? And also, girls get this type of comment a lot?

This tends to be the first thing that off-puts them from joining a "boys-club" as these geeky things tend to be.

Actually, I don't really think of it as a question of permission. But its kind of a creepy thing to say, no? And also, girls get this type of comment a lot?

This tends to be the first thing that off-puts them from joining a "boys-club" as these geeky things tend to be.

Of course it's creepy. It wouldn't be funny if I was being serious, though it seems my sense of humor is lost here anyway.

Actually, I don't really think of it as a question of permission. But its kind of a creepy thing to say, no? And also, girls get this type of comment a lot?

This tends to be the first thing that off-puts them from joining a "boys-club" as these geeky things tend to be.

Of course it's creepy. It wouldn't be funny if I was being serious, though it seems my sense of humor is lost here anyway.

yes.

How on earth are you guys going to be able to let your wives play with other people if you can't handle a simple comment to that effect? You're saying that they don't need your permission or protection, but that's exactly what you're doing. There wasn't even anything remotely explicit about it. I'm honestly rather perplexed where the offense is stemming from.

The fact that there was nothing remotely explicit in no way changes the fact that the first thing I read from you on this thread was... About sex. And not just about sex generally, but about sex _with you_.

Let me be clear: I'm not offended by your farts. I'm more perplexed as to why you didn't excuse yourself from the dinner table first. Nor can I understand why you insist there is no smell.