Yeah,
I can't quite work out the idea behind expansions being included in the core set!?
These packs, included in the core set, replace tokens in the core set!?
Why include the tokens?

Ally and Villain Packs
As a bonus, the Imperial Assault Core Set includes both the Luke Skywalker Ally Pack and the Darth Vader Villain Pack. Both of these packs include a sculpted plastic figure to replace the token found in the Imperial Assault Core Set.

So basically they're segregating some of the core set and calling it an expansion pack?
Isn't this the kinda shady underhand tactics used by kickstarters?

Panic...

I think it's more like that the core set will include tokens to represent heroes and villains from the movies and universe, like Han, Chewie, Boba Fett, Carnor Jax that you will later be able to buy the miniature in some expension packs. The core set already come with a Darth Vader and Luke miniature, so you won't have to buy them later like the others.

I just watched a Team Covenant video interview with an FFG VP and basically what Red Castle says is correct.

I think its setting the customer up so they know exactly what they will be getting with similar future expansion packs, which removes some confusion about what they will be getting for their money from expansions. I do not personally think its necessarily a bad thing and lets us know a good chunk about what the business model for the game will be before choosing to buy the game.

Yeah,

I can't quite work out the idea behind expansions being included in the core set!?

These packs, included in the core set, replace tokens in the core set!?

Why include the tokens?

Ally and Villain Packs

As a bonus, the Imperial Assault Core Set includes both the Luke Skywalker Ally Pack and the Darth Vader Villain Pack. Both of these packs include a sculpted plastic figure to replace the token found in the Imperial Assault Core Set.

So basically they're segregating some of the core set and calling it an expansion pack?

Isn't this the kinda shady underhand tactics used by kickstarters?

Panic...

For some reason, when I saw your black font against the dark grey background, I immediately thought of the old Intellivision game 'Nightstalker" that I played way back in the early eighties....man, those were good times!

It also sets them up so that they can sell the expansions separately later on from the core game for a cheaper alternative after the initial rush of everyone getting the first print run. IE they can see if a $100 price point will work or not. If not, you can sell the base game cheaper (say at a $70 price point, closer to what descent retails for.) If you notice, if the expansions i'm guessing sell $10 for cards and 1 miniature, then they value the core set at $80. That is a pretty expensive core set (compare to X-comm which is $60) This tells me that, either they want/need to make more money for hasbro licensing OR they need/want to make more money going forward from their Star Wars line. We also see a massive increase for a core set in Armada. To me it smells of they need to make money and they need to make it now...(I'm sure I'll buy this, just it seems that they are trying to really push the star wars line...they aren't really promoting their other lines... GoT, LoTR, Netrunner...because I don't think they are at risk of losing those licenses in the next few years like they are with Star Wars.

Maybe they are seeing how much they can make, when they have to up the ante to Disney when the initial agreement goes away and disney wants more money from Star Wars... Its just a huge jump from what we have seen in the past from their other pricing strategies...

Maybe they are seeing how much they can make, when they have to up the ante to Disney when the initial agreement goes away and disney wants more money from Star Wars... Its just a huge jump from what we have seen in the past from their other pricing strategies...

If so, even more reason to accept it. It'll still be great value, if the quality of the material they've published thus far is anything to go by. I enjoyed some of the older games, but FFG is parsecs beyond what anyone else has ever done.

I am guesing this is only for the first printing or so, I imagine the reprints will not have the luke vader expansions and those will be sold seperately. So its more like a bonus for those who purchase the game right out the door.

don't be naiive... they are "included" to give customers the illusion that they are getting stuff for free, because FFG is such a nice company. yeah, right. You are absolutely paying for it and I think these packs will not only be included in the first printing, but they will be part of the base game. this is a very simple marketing strategy and a clever one, too, because they actually managed to make some people believe that they are getting a free bonus...

Pathfinder the card game has something very similar. when I opened the box, there was the adventure pack 1 included, too. and I thought, wow, nice, but then I realized I was being very naiive. this "expansion" is simply part of the base game and very smoothly lures you into buying all the other adventure packs. and that is EXACTLY what FFG is doing here. Obviously I want the Han-Solo and Leia and Yoda and.... and... and Pack. Darth Vader and Luke are simply the bait.

if IA costs 100$ they sure as hell are not giving ANYTHING for free and especially not 2 little plastic figures. these things cost very little in production. even if they included 10 packs, they'd still be earning their money

I don't consider them bait. Not with the Star Wars theme.

I might be wrong but, pretty much everyone that will buy this game is a Star Wars fan. If you buy a game about Star Wars and there is miniatures made for the main characters (Han, Chewie, Luke, Boba, Vader, etc), I'm pretty sure that you don't need to get 2 as bonus to buy them: You will buy them, 2 coming in the core set as a ''bonus'' or not.

Quite frankly, with the Star wars theme, they could have sold the base game without those 2 miniatures still at 100$ SRP and sell both pack individually from the start at probably 10$ each and it would have sell anyway. To think that offering those 2 miniatures is what might make people on the edge to buy this game is underestimating the willingness to commit of the Star Wars fan. And if they don't care about Star Wars, I don't think that they'll buy it because Vader and Luke come with the box.

So in that sense, yeah, I consider them as ''bonus'' cause they could have make more money by selling them individually.

This is just good marketing, say they are free even though they are already in the starter set. I am just glad they are coming out with this game with this quality.

At least they are not Wizkids with their bad quality. =p

I don't consider them bait. Not with the Star Wars theme.

I might be wrong but, pretty much everyone that will buy this game is a Star Wars fan. If you buy a game about Star Wars and there is miniatures made for the main characters (Han, Chewie, Luke, Boba, Vader, etc), I'm pretty sure that you don't need to get 2 as bonus to buy them: You will buy them, 2 coming in the core set as a ''bonus'' or not.

Quite frankly, with the Star wars theme, they could have sold the base game without those 2 miniatures still at 100$ SRP and sell both pack individually from the start at probably 10$ each and it would have sell anyway. To think that offering those 2 miniatures is what might make people on the edge to buy this game is underestimating the willingness to commit of the Star Wars fan. And if they don't care about Star Wars, I don't think that they'll buy it because Vader and Luke come with the box.

So in that sense, yeah, I consider them as ''bonus'' cause they could have make more money by selling them individually.

this is a really weird argument, saying that you consider them as free bonus, just because you and some others would have been willing to pay even more money for it. so it stops being a bonus, when it has reached the limit of what you are willing to pay for it?! ridiculous.

it is not a bonus, because they have calculated the price for the base set including these 2 packs. simple as that. it is not like they decided to claim 100$ for the base set and afterwards decided to also include the 2 packs. believing that would be very naiive. FFG is a big and successful company. everything they or any other company does is very calculated.

in fact, I would even argue for the contrary. I am getting less than the base-set should actually deliver, since there are tokens for all those other Heroes and Villains where there should be plastic miniatures. THAT is the opposite of bonus. take Descent for instance. why were those 6 lieutenant minis not in the base-set? because they were too expensive or what?! yeah right, it's because they wanted us to pay even more money to actually have a COMPLETE base-set. and it is the same with this one. it comes incomplete. minis are missing and have been replaced with tokens, except Darth Vader and Luke, which they want us believe are bonuses, when in fact they are just the only ones not missing.

people like you are the very reason why this game costs 100$ in the first place instead of just 70$ or even less. people like you are the reaseon, why Starbucks coffee costs a fortune even though it's JUST coffee. it's the customer's naivete why everything becomes so very expensive for no real value. I admit, I am a part of it and I pay way too much money for nonsense, too, but at least I am not fallen to the illusion that those companies are doing me a favor.

Yup, because the cost of the license and increasing cost of making plastic miniatures has not effect at all.

Yup, because the cost of the license and increasing cost of making plastic miniatures has not effect at all.

... and why does the license cost so much??? because people are willing to pay for it. it is the same point with the license that I made before. it is like the Starbucks coffee. the coffee only costs so much, because people think they need exactly this coffee.

the plastic prices are rising... ok. but nonetheless there are less plastic miniatures in this box than in Descent and still it is more expensive than Descent. So there something odd here, too.

oh, and another thing. if the plastic is so very expensive, why are they packing every lieutenant pack and monster collection in plastic boxes? they could save a lot of money and waste product for that matter, if they packed them it paper like all other games. my guess is they don't really bother about the price too much.

Wow, a lot of presumption in your post. First, I never said it was a free bonus, of course you are paying for it just like everything else in the game, and guess what, you are paying more than what it's worth just because there is the name Star Wars on the box. FFG is in the buisness for money and I have no worry that they do their best to make as much as possible.

Now, a bonus, by definition, can be 'something in addition to what is expected or stricly due'.

So what is expected in this game? A decent-like dungeon crawl where you play unknown heroes against the Empire, simple as that. Ally and Villain packs are optionnal, you don't need them to play the game: they are a miniature, a scenario, and a couple of skirmish cards. So where, in all that, is it expected or due from their part to include every pack in the core set like you claim so we can have a complete base-set?

From a buisness point of view, and looking at what they are already doing with the Decent Lieutenant packs, it was to be expected that they would sell Ally and Villain packs separately like they will do with Han and the others, doing the opposite would have been a bad buisness decision. Why include all the miniatures, not necessary to enjoy the base game, when you can sell them separately for 8-10$ each?

So, I do think you are paying for it, but I also think they didn't have to include them and the game would have sell anyway. I have yet to meet someone that think that the game is worth the price just because there is Luke and Vader in it, or will buy it just because those 2 are included. So, I also don't think it is an evil scheme by FFG to get more money to include them, they will get it anyway. It can also raise the alarm to some that this game will cost more than they are willing to pay. The game is expensive and will get even more once the expensions start coming out. You just have to compare the price with Decent to know that you pay much more just because it's Star Wars.

Honest question here, because I never got into the game: Did Decent came with any lieutenant packs? And how are they represented if you don't buy the packs?

sure you don't need them. but that is again a strange view.

you probably don't need 11 dice and espacially not 2 dice of the same color, so why include them, right? you certainly don't need a threat dial either. you could use pen & paper, so why include it, right?

everything I don't strictly need is a friendly bonus, right?

when I buy a miniatures game I DO NOT expect there to be paper tokens representing miniatures. and when I buy a Star Wars game I absolutely expect some of the Star Wars Heroes and Villains. that is at least what I expect. so imo there are minis missing in this game, which I have to buy additionally.

Quite frankly, with the Star wars theme, they could have sold the base game without those 2 miniatures still at 100$ SRP and sell both pack individually from the start at probably 10$ each and it would have sell anyway.

100% with you on your post (and especially the part I've quoted, which really applies to me)

From a board game perspective, I see the missing figures as a money-grab. From a miniatures skirmish game perspective, it makes complete sense. If I'm buying this game for the skirmish mode, and if I'm going to be primarily fielding a Scum and Villainy squad, I really don't need/want Han, Chewie, Emperor Palpatine, etc. Don't force me to pay for those.

However, I am not, in fact, buying this game for the skirmish mode, so I really would have preferred all the miniatures be included in the base game.

But then, the Ally/Villain packs aren't just pieces of plastic. They add important cards for the skirmish mode and new scenarios for both campaign and skirmish mode. I think if given the choice of having that content included with separate miniatures, or getting miniatures in the base game and never having that extra content, I choose the former.

To counter that argument, why not include those extra cards and scenarios as a single expansion later that doesn't have any miniatures?

the plastic prices are rising... ok. but nonetheless there are less plastic miniatures in this box than in Descent and still it is more expensive than Descent. So there something odd here, too.

I hadn't noticed this before. That really burns me. It's not just short a few figures, it's short by 8 figures (if you include the 'bonus' figures). That's about a 20% reduction miniatures compared to Descent while the price of the game is 20% more than Descent.

Granted, you get 2 more dice and 11 more custom, double-sided map tiles. Is that a fair trade? I really don't know. I would need to talk to someone who does manufacturing regularly.

EDIT: But then, the cost isn't just for parts. As others have mentioned, we're paying for a popular IP as well. And frankly, from that point of view, I'd be willing to pay 20% more for a Star Wars Descent rather than pay normal price for the normal Descent (which is why I haven't bought Descent even though I've been eyeing it for two years).

you know, I was not wondering about the price at all. They can certainly claim more money for a Star Wars Theme than for a Terrinoth Theme, which is Descent. And I also agree that they would have sold the game even without those additional packs included in the base game.

All I was arguing for is that it is ridiculous to actually believe that anything in this game is a "bonus". It is all just a marketing strategy and they are earning more than enough money as is.

sure you don't need them. but that is again a strange view.

you probably don't need 11 dice and espacially not 2 dice of the same color, so why include them, right? you certainly don't need a threat dial either. you could use pen & paper, so why include it, right?

everything I don't strictly need is a friendly bonus, right?

when I buy a miniatures game I DO NOT expect there to be paper tokens representing miniatures. and when I buy a Star Wars game I absolutely expect some of the Star Wars Heroes and Villains. that is at least what I expect. so imo there are minis missing in this game, which I have to buy additionally.

It's not the same thing. You are talking about components needed for the game mechanic. Stating an extreme to prove your point. You can't play without the dice because all the check resolve around them and for the threat dial, it's the way they decided to handle it. Threy could have gone with a token way instead and I could not care less. What I expect, is that they provide what is needed to play the game. Miniatures are not needed: they are purely esthetic. They could have gone the Arkham Horror way and decided that the characters and enemies are tokens instead. Mechanically speaking, the game handle the same. Would it have sold this way is an entirely other topics. A lot of people will probably buy into this game because there is miniatures and would have pass there was not. But the thing remains that you can still play the entire game without using the miniatures.

The game is advertise as a strategy boardgame, not a miniature game. It is listed in the board and card game category, not the miniature one. You expect it to be a miniature game. You expect a Star Wars game to come with some Star Wars heroes and Villains, and It does in fact come with some. There is at least Luke, Vader, Han and Chewie. In no way is FFG obligated to include them as miniature, because it's not a miniature game. You will be able to play the entire game with the tokens included. There is no shenanigans here, there is no evil scheme here. They just did like they did with Descent, but included 2 as miniatures instead of just tokens.

The scheme would have been if they didn't say they were included as a bonus. Now, you would be in your right to expect the Allies and Villains to all come in miniature form, because why only make 2 and say nothing about the others being just tokens. 'Bonus' make it clear that they don't all come in miniature form and you'll have to buy the rest, like the lieutenant in Descent. Also, as I said earlier, they could have make the game without including any heroes and villains as miniatures and make you buy all of them individually, like they seem to have done with Descent. They also could have just not include the tokens and missions affiliated with the Ally/Villain at all and just make you buy it anyway: You will buy them anyway, it's Star Wars, the money cow. If there really was a ploy to make more money, they would have done that.

The problem seems more to be about you expecting more than they advertise. This is a boardgame set in the universe of Star Wars (to cash in), not a miniature game about the heroes and villains from the movie. Heroes and Villains from the lore seems to be more about cameo appearence than necessary to the game.

you slightly misunderstood what I said there. I said, you don't need 2 dice of the same color. they could have included only 1 die of each color and sell an extra dice set like they are doing with almost all their games.

And I am pretty sure, I am not the only one expecting miniatures in this game even though it is not categorized as such. I mean, c'mon when you look at the pictures they post, you think it is a miniatures game.

and there is another thing I don't understand about your view. are you actually trying to tell me you would pay 100$ for this game, even if there were no plastic minis in it at all, but only tokens, because the minis are a purely esthetic feature?!

they are selling it with the components it comes with. all I am saying is that all components are part of what they are selling and there is no actual bonus here. it is simply a marketing strategy. and I honestly don't see how anyone could argue against this.

think about tele-shopping for instance. they are trying to sell you one product and claim that you'll also get 10 other products for free, as a bonus, which is absolute rubbish of course. and this is exactly what FFG is doing here. there is no bonus, it is part of the product they are selling.

I think what you are trying to say is that these 2 packs are basically expansions, which they included in this game as a bonus, which they also could have sold separately. and I get your point. but nonetheless, even if they were selling this game with 3 additional expansions and 5 hero packs, there would still be no bonus. these expansions are part of the product (call it a bundle if you will) they are selling. would you call everything in a bundle a bonus? I would not. I think a bundle is still one product or trade good, which I am paying the full price for. I see no bonuses.

and this will be it from me, because I have said everything I could. I cannot make myself clearer. If you want to believe that this game is full bonuses, fine.

This whole thing is just to make the price of 100$ more acceptable.. not for the core star-wars fans, but for the mass market and those who don't love star-wars, but like Descent.

It just suggests you get more content:

100$ for Descent (60-80$) set in the Star Wars universe vs.

100$ for Descent (60-80$) set in Star Wars universe with 2 expansions.

The second option suggests that you just pay a little bit for the Star-Wars license and not just buy a single board game for 100$ that is little more than a 60-80$ game.

Furthermore it adds to the hype of the game for Star-Wars fans. They explicitly tell you that VADER and LUKE SKYWALKER is there AS A MINIATURE. This easily overshadows the stated fact that this game has nearly nothing to do with the canon story-line.

Of course I would not pay 100$ for this game if there was no miniatures, all I said is that mechanically speaking the game would play the same without. Notice also that I didn't say that it would sell as much if there was no miniatures. The miniatures help esthetically to sell the game and get the attention of the hobbyist and Star Wars collectors. But ultimately, they're only flash there to help sell the game. And it works. It's just like when we were young and playing with our toys, except now they come with rules.

I'll try to explain one last time why I do consider those 2 figures a 'bonus', because like you I don't know anymore hw to say it, and english being only my second language, my vocabulary is limited to express my opinion.

Imperial Assault appear to follow the same selling formula than Decent: Base Set, Expension Set and Lieutenant pack(replaced here by Ally and Villain packs). Seeing the success of Decent, I think it's a valid and proven formula that makes a lot of money, what the company is in buisness for. Imperial Assault cost 20$SRP more than Decent and yet has less miniature than this game. Because of the 2 pack included? No. Because it's Star Wars. Make the same game with a generic Sci-Fi theme and it won't sell as much for the same price, even if all villains and allies tokens were replaced with miniatures. Now take Imperial Assault, remove the 2 packs and keep the same price, and it would still sell as much. Why? Because it's Star Wars.

Now again, take Decent. The game comes with miniatures and 6 lieutenants represented only by tokens. If you want the miniatures, they're sold separetly. Imperial Assault comes with miniatures and X Ally and Villain represented only by tokens. Same formula, if you want the miniatures, they're sold separetly. But, instead of all of them being sold separetly like Decent, they already include 2 of them with the core set. They didn't have to. Seeing that the game that inspired IA works and sells perfectly fine without including them show that they could easily have decided to not include them and it would have pass without questions. That's what a bonus is, something that is not expected and not due. Of course you pay for it, but you're already paying too much for this game becuse it's Star Wars, not because they included 2 packs in it.

What they are saying is not a sale pitch like buy the game today and get 2 free pack with it! It's more like there will be Allies and Villains pack sold separetly (money sink), but we already include 2 with the Core Set. Now, if you feel entitled to suddenly have all of them included in the base game, unlike Decent, it's your problem, not FFG marketing one.

The problem is that you have a different understanding of the word "bonus". Simple as that.

In economics, a "bonus" given to a customer is always a FREE extra something, mostly in the form of a credit entry. Bonuses are often given as a "thank you" to regular customers or those who make a big purchase in order to keep them satisfied and bind them to the company.

There are indeed other kinds of bonuses like those given to employees, when they have worked very hard and deserve extra payment. And such bonuses are indeed not free, since you have to work for them.

But we are not FFG's employees, we are their customers. Thus the former definition is the valid one in our case. Therefor if it really is a bonus FFG is giving to us as their customers, then it MUST be free, otherwise it fails the definition of being a bonus.

Now, to be fair, I cannot know whether FFG is actually doing this for free or not, but I highly doubt it, since they claim 100$ !!! for it and that really is a lot of money. So, if it is not free and I am paying the full price for it, it is per definition not a bonus. And there really is no arguing there. It is simply the definition used in economics.

The only thing we could argue about is whether it is indeed free, but since none of us can really know that, although it is highly questionable for the above stated reasons, such a discussion would be nonsensical.