Oh and I actually hadn't said the action I was going to perform, only that I intended to use Advanced Sensors, so I was definitely "in the wrong" from a rules perspective. But it's like taking shortcuts in Magic when resolving triggers sometimes...the fact that I hadn't yet completed my AS action before revealing my dial had no effect on the game state at all. It's a closer call than forgetting AS completely until you reveal your dial.

All I can say is "Playing like a jerk leads to the Dark Side".

Whether or not being tough on the rules is being a jerk is situational.

Whether or not asking for a take-backs is being a jerk is also situational.

Don't let your friends fall to the Dark Side.

so I was definitely "in the wrong" from a rules perspective.

Meh... By the strictest sense of RAW you did. But I can't imagine that anyone would actually call you on that... If you tried to use Advanced Sensors after you moved or something sure. But denying you an action because you flipped your dial is simply excessive.

Also since he denied you using AdvSen, you should of been able to take your action as normal.

Yep, flipping your dial has no effect ingame, except for those times when you actually can't flip it (like the turn after eating ion tokens), and that's why the wording exist.

In a tournament setting I would never ask my opponent for a missed opportunity. I wouldn't even point it out to my opponent that I made a mistake. If I forget to take an action I'm allotted by pointing it out to my opponent it gives them the opportunity to take advantage of it. With that being said, I will take advantage of every mistake my opponent makes and never allow a missed opportunities.

Twice during the Nationals my opponent revealed a dial that was between two maneuvers. Both times I chose the maneuver that was best for me. Does this make me a bad buy ?

In a tournament setting I would never ask my opponent for a missed opportunity. I wouldn't even point it out to my opponent that I made a mistake. If I forget to take an action I'm allotted by pointing it out to my opponent it gives them the opportunity to take advantage of it. With that being said, I will take advantage of every mistake my opponent makes and never allow a missed opportunities.

Twice during the Nationals my opponent revealed a dial that was between two maneuvers. Both times I chose the maneuver that was best for me. Does this make me a bad buy ?

It's a slippery slope to the Dark SIde.

My first ever tournament, in a store, I did very very well, winning 3 games and losing 1, my first.

I was running 3 b wings and a blockORS, and i whooped the variety of lists I came up against. My first match was against a tie swarm and it was almost over - my blockors was unscratched and I had 1 B-wing left with only a single shield taken off.

He had only 2 academy ties. One with 1 hit left and the other with 2 hits left. Time was like 85 minutes, and in my last movement, I was going to spin my ORS around to finish off the ties, while my B wing pinched in from the side.

I selected the wrong direction for my 1-turn and flew my ORS off the map! In the round of firing, my B wing had a shot on the tie fighter with 2 hull left, and did a single damage.

Game ended - I had just destroyed my untouched ORS and my B wing was almost untouched himself. My opponent had 2 tie fighters each with only a single shot left.

My opponent offered to accept a correction to my mis-maneuver, but I declined. My mistake, and I've never done it again. Super frustrating, though!

Or you can play it by the rules, if the opponent let's you do a missed opportunity, so be it, if not oh well. I always play by the 1 major mistake then no more, but for actions and the like I call them out, "Actions?" Why? Because it helps me remember, and gives my opponent a reminder. I've won plenty of tournaments being kind to the opponent. I'm there to have fun. If I win some stuff awesome, and I usually do. Thing is, if you have to question yourself, is this a jerk thing to do, it most likely is.

I suppose we could start a new thread on this... But what's the biggest mistake you've made at a tourney?

I played in one this past Saturday and I flew Echo off the board in the second turn. Yup. I'm that guy. LOL.

I suppose we could start a new thread on this... But what's the biggest mistake you've made at a tourney?

I played in one this past Saturday and I flew Echo off the board in the second turn. Yup. I'm that guy. LOL.

I flew an Etahn off the board while facing a single Alpha Squadron Pilot in the very last turn of the round at nationals

I played in one this past Saturday and I flew Echo off the board in the second turn. Yup. I'm that guy. LOL.

Obviously your opponent was "that guy" for not allowing you to change your movement.

Biggest mistake on xwing was to do a K-turn with my phantom a few milimeters too far from Yorr. Costed me the game and the tournament against a fat han, since we were on range 1, i ended up stressed and actionless.

I played in one this past Saturday and I flew Echo off the board in the second turn. Yup. I'm that guy. LOL.

Obviously your opponent was "that guy" for not allowing you to change your movement.

I never would've asked. It was my blunder. I realized after de-cloaking that the 2bank wasn't far enough... Flipped my dial and flew right off the edge.

I just laughed my way through the rest of the very, very short game. He felt very bad for me, but shouldn't have. It was 100% my fault.

If we are talking about competitve games personaly I think if my opponant has made a mistake then it's my duty to point it out and give them the option to rectify it. Having said that I also belive that if I make a mistake then I won't correct it as it was my fault that I made it in the first place. Therefore the best players IMHO are those that let their opponant know if they've missed something but have the ability to accept their own mistakes and live with them.

mrfroggies makes an excellent point in that this is actually a debate about what kind of "community" we are going to be (I know that's an oversimplification).

To me, what's central here is are we going to let a de facto rule, "fly casual", change the way we apply the actual rules of the game in competitive and/or casual play I think we can't. Allowing take-backs or the execution of missed opportunities at high levels of play, maybe even low levels too, will eventually degrade the integrity game. It allows for the growth of poor habits.

Hopefully, the motivation behind allowing the correction of mistakes in competitive games isn't that somehow one might be violating this concept of "fly casual" and face out-of-game consequences. Getting hated-on for enforcing the rules or insisting on a high level of play stinks and I've seen it happen. "Fly casual" as a frame-of-mind is fine and cool in regards to how you approach, react, and conduct yourself in play; but allowing it to change how the rules are applied is not good for the game or the community.

At the end of the day until there is a rule forbidding players from allowing their opponents to correct mistakes it comes down to personal preference, I guess.

mrfroggies makes an excellent point in that this is actually a debate about what kind of "community" we are going to be (I know that's an oversimplification).

To me, what's central here is are we going to let a de facto rule, "fly casual", change the way we apply the actual rules of the game in competitive and/or casual play I think we can't. Allowing take-backs or the execution of missed opportunities at high levels of play, maybe even low levels too, will eventually degrade the integrity game. It allows for the growth of poor habits.

Hopefully, the motivation behind allowing the correction of mistakes in competitive games isn't that somehow one might be violating this concept of "fly casual" and face out-of-game consequences. Getting hated-on for enforcing the rules or insisting on a high level of play stinks and I've seen it happen. "Fly casual" as a frame-of-mind is fine and cool in regards to how you approach, react, and conduct yourself in play; but allowing it to change how the rules are applied is not good for the game or the community.

At the end of the day until there is a rule forbidding players from allowing their opponents to correct mistakes it comes down to personal preference, I guess.

To me, what's central here is are we going to let a de facto rule, "fly casual", change the way we apply the actual rules of the game in competitive and/or casual play I think we can't. Allowing take-backs or the execution of missed opportunities at high levels of play, maybe even low levels too, will eventually degrade the integrity game. It allows for the growth of poor habits.

Heartily disagree. Unless the game to you is just a mechanical process.

The Dark Side is strong in this one. YEEESH.

If there would be money involve (like Magic) you can be sure that he would never have allowed him to recloak!

Heck at our regional, some guys have been very strict about rules like a dude forgot to put his dial next to Falcon... Well the other guy did not allowed him to do it and moved his Falcon out of the board. That is very strict / Opportunist in my book.

The Imperial guy in the final at Gencon should have took it like a man and simply had to think about it. The asterisk is definitely there on his win, a Whisper with 2 evade dice is a dead Whisper therefore and entirely different game!

. Therefore the best players IMHO are those that let their opponant know if they've missed something but have the ability to accept their own mistakes and live with them.

I liked this, but I think it's so well said that I wanted to quote it.

In a tournament setting I would never ask my opponent for a missed opportunity. I wouldn't even point it out to my opponent that I made a mistake. If I forget to take an action I'm allotted by pointing it out to my opponent it gives them the opportunity to take advantage of it. With that being said, I will take advantage of every mistake my opponent makes and never allow a missed opportunities.

Twice during the Nationals my opponent revealed a dial that was between two maneuvers. Both times I chose the maneuver that was best for me. Does this make me a bad buy ?

In the case above, my answer would probably be "no" to both since what you did was within the rules, but the issue above wasn't even really the fault of the player, a "mistake" as you put it, but a fault of the product.

Personally, I think to be a top player is an excellent accomplishment, but to be both a top player and a top sportsman is the ultimate accomplishment.

I let mistakes slide as long as there's no reason for them NOT to do it. Like, if someone forgets to take an action with their ship, I just tell them to throw a focus token on it. Usually I catch triggers, and say "Action?" after a ship moves and he goes on to the next one, or something similar. But I don't stress it much - people forget the automatic stuff sometimes. If Chewie has no hull damage and R2-D2, I didn't care that he tossed the shield on during the planning phase. If a ship with R2-D2 does a green and he doesn't toss the shield on until later that round, I don't really mind.

That being said, I never ask my opponents to let me do things I forget or mess up on.

I think allowing these things is case by case, but the champ has it on the head. If it's a reactionary ability that has no downside (recloak debate, whatever, he took ACD for a reason) I would feel like a super dush if I didn't allow them to place the "autotokens." YMMV

We too play with autofocus. Makes things so much easier.

I have an aesthetic attraction to the idea of a "complete" game, so I'll happily allow rewinds to fix any oversight that is easily fixable. If you paid the points for an effect and/or the execution of that effect was the obvious outcome of a given moment of the game, then it should be executed.

I don't understand anyone who would be comfortable winning/gaining advantage because of a correctable oversight. Like, I could take a single Z-95 as my entire squad and win the worlds if every one of my opponents forgets to roll every attack and defense dice he's entitled to. But it would be the most meaningless win ever. Earn it or it's worthless.

We too play with autofocus. Makes things so much easier.

Maybe that should be an upgrade. "Autofocus - Once per turn, immediately before the first time you or another friendly ship roll attack or defense die, if you forgot your dang action during the activation phase, you may perform 1 free focus action." But what's the appropriate point cost for the freedom to fly casually?

Also, seeing how these various sportsmanship discussions come up occasionally, it's worth remembering that after delimiting the mechanics of the game, and in so far as they govern human interactions, rules are the minimum standard for conduct. Every situation's different and you definitely don't want to enable things. I learned that the hard way at regionals. At the same time, you have to make a judgment call about what appears to be in good faith. If it's an ongoing thing, no way, or if someone's trying to get something by you, don't do it. Playing robotically by the rules might not be doing anything wrong, but it's surely not the best way, from a human standpoint.

Think about it this way. The rules we live by tell us not to do things like punch people in the face, or specify the way we do our taxes. They don't tell us to pick up something on the side of the road or help someone who falls down, but those kind of actions can serve a greater good. In this case, it's building a positive community of people who can actually enjoy playing the game. I mean come on, if all you could say for yourself in real life was "I didn't push that man into the ravine" then it would be a pretty sad state of affairs.

To me, what's central here is are we going to let a de facto rule, "fly casual", change the way we apply the actual rules of the game in competitive and/or casual play I think we can't. Allowing take-backs or the execution of missed opportunities at high levels of play, maybe even low levels too, will eventually degrade the integrity game. It allows for the growth of poor habits.

Heartily disagree. Unless the game to you is just a mechanical process.

The Dark Side is strong in this one. YEEESH.

Aw man, no need for that. You can disagree with me but you don't need to Sithspit-me...

I don't think the game is just a mechanical process. It's a competition between two sides, each agree to a certain number of considerations; most of the important considerations are explicit while others are assumed. Allowing a breech in those considerations violates the relationship between the contestants and changes the conditions of the contest. That's not fair, and correcting that inequity is like a Light Side trait, right?

Anyway, the question is, do you hold others to the same standard as you hold for yourself: I will select the proper direction (I am dyslexic, this can be difficult for me, but it's like brain push-ups), I will activate appropriately, I will remember my Critical triggers, I will remember to take an action, etc.?

But that doesn't mean I haven't given someone that consideration. At the Gamescape Store Championship, in swiss I was playing geordan and he missed a focus trigger, if he didn't get that focus evade he was down a ship sooner rather than later. Jeff patted me on the shoulder and said "Great sportsmanship, man." And I was thinking to myself this guy is so good if I hadn't reminded him I might actually beat him. I don't know. It was good karma, dice were nice the rest of the day. Anyway, the point is the game is evolving to the extent where behavior like that should not be allowed.