Just because you claim that it’s not broken, doesn’t mean that you are necessarily right.

Just because I claim that it is broken, doesn’t mean that I’m necessarily right.

What I want to know is, why can’t I be allowed to propose a solution that would easily allow us both to have the kind of rules we want for our own respective games, within necessarily forcing on anyone else our version of the way we think that rule should be?

Why can’t you allow some sort of compromise?

Why do you have to necessarily “win” at the cost of everyone else? Why can’t we both be allowed to “win” in our own respective ways?

And with that, I’m done with this thread.

So, again I ask — why are you continuing to try to force your particular world view on the entire rest of the community?

In spite of whafrog's rather biased view, I'm not trying to force any particular view. I'm simply stating my thoughts on the matter, just as you are. And like I do with anything whafrog posts, you're free to disregard or ignore them as you see fit.

i was under the impression that this was a discussion, and it so happens that I don't see Move as being as broken as you claim it to be. is it powerful? Certainly, but then telekinesis in Star Wars has always been powerful, all the way back from the WEG days and particularly in Saga Edition where Move Object was one of the top tier powers for dealing damage. In contrast to those games, FFG's Move Power is practically sane since it's not a "one stop shop" and requires significant investment in terms of XP. XP that other PCs are spending on other things that are more broadly useful and won't immediately draw attention to the fact that you're a Force user. But is Move so broken that it makes the game unplayable? Nope, because there's multiple costs involved in getting it that 'super powered' state that you're so terrified of. Plus, there's the simple fact that using it openly and broadly instantly earmarks the PC as a Force user in an era where being a Force user is like having a giant neon "Shoot Me!" sign on your back.

However, since since you and whafrog are more interested in venting your respective spleens about something that others don't see as being problematic and pretty much ignoring Daeglan's rather well-reasoned counters, I'll not waste any more of our respective time on a pointless argument.

The last 3 pages of conversation pretty much satisfies me and my gaming perspective. No thanks to F&D, I'll stick with EoE. To each their own.

Just because you claim that it’s not broken, doesn’t mean that you are necessarily right.

Just because I claim that it is broken, doesn’t mean that I’m necessarily right.

What I want to know is, why can’t I be allowed to propose a solution that would easily allow us both to have the kind of rules we want for our own respective games, within necessarily forcing on anyone else our version of the way we think that rule should be?

Why can’t you allow some sort of compromise?

Why do you have to necessarily “win” at the cost of everyone else? Why can’t we both be allowed to “win” in our own respective ways?

And with that, I’m done with this thread.

You keep saying its broken. and yet still have not provided an example of how it is. and how it is any more broken than someone with a heavy repeating blaster, or starship or thermal detonators, or any number of other things that do farm more.

I always took Yoda's "sign of exhaustion" that people used to validate the OCR/RCR Star Wars RPGs having using the Force cost health as not a sign of the Jedi Master being tired from using the Force to move the X-Wing, but rather to instead be a sign of frustration that it took such a blatant example to finally get Luke to understand what he was trying to teach the boy. Given that for hundreds of years, Yoda had students and adults pretty much hanging on his every word, having Luke be so mired in the mundane was probably very frustrating to him.

Wait - there are people who see this as Yoda being tired or weak, and not "This kid is as dumb as a sack of hammers", despite Yoda spending the entire scene dropping wisdom?

Some people are goofy!

I guess the 98 dollar question is - what kind of point costs are we looking at to be able to smack people with a YT1300 punch? They'll need at least another force die - working their way to the bottom of the tree will cost about 75 points (assuming a straight line shot), 10 for the power, and another 20 points* for the upgrades. That's what, 100-110-ish points, assuming that the do nothing other than get the Swank Move, or that they started as a Jedi and don't have to diversify into the Exile or Emergent.

*These 20 points may not be accurate - I'm not near my book.

That's quite an investment of play time just to pimpslap someone with an X-Wing. Yes, it might eventually be broken, but those same 150-ish points would also make a vastly more annoying and devistating marauder.

Desslok,

On the Strength Upgrades for Move, to buy all four of them would be 55 XP (first two are 10 XP, third is 15 XP, final one is 20 XP). So on top of the base power, the Range Upgrade you need to buy to be able to access the "hurl objects" Control Upgrade, you're looking at 80 XP. And that's before factoring in the costs to get Force Rating 2; about 95 for Emergent or 115 for Exile if those are your second specs, with some of the Force and Destiny specs allowing you to reach FR 2 for 75 to 100 on a rough average.

So it's doable as a Knight Level character if you chose the right career/spec to start out with (or simply not by that 4th Strength Upgrade until later), but this is pretty much a one-trick pony, and from what I've seen, most players tend to get rather bored with "one trick pony" characters after a few sessions once the novelty wears off. Meanwhile, the players that made a more well-rounded PC are having a lot more fun and have characters that can do pretty well in situations they're not optimized for. Then again, I've never really understood the burning desire some gamers have to "fully optimize" their characters as if there were actual conditions to win in an RPG other than "if everyone at the table had fun, then you won."

Yes it is very expensive to smack people with YT-1300s. And it's not terribly effective...Oh and something else people keep missing. Hurling a silhouette 4 object requires a daunting (4purple)discipline check..and if the target has adversary change some to red...easier to use a repeating blaster even against minions.