You mean people with a sense of humour?

I suspect the intention was more along the lines of "people who don't realize that different social spaces require different standards of behavior."

Humor isn't an excuse, either. The jokes that get told in my living room would make my social circle sound like awful, awful people were they shouted to each other in a park, but because we limit ourselves to environments and audiences that know us, get us, and won't be hurt by the things we say in jest, we avoid the negativity that can come from having a dark, twisted sense of humor.

The stuff I say to my wife after the friends go home is worse.

But never for a moment do I think that letting a stranger hear any of that is even close to acceptable, must less see it typed out (where all of the nuance, body language, etc. gets stripped out).

Geek circles have a bad habit of letting poor behavior slide, probably because of a desire to be a welcoming space for social misfits. Sadly, the line between that a social misfit and a jerk can be blurry, and telling them apart requires a bunch of skills that are highly negatively correlated with being a social misfit. The lack of chastisement is starting to change (see: this thread), but it's never going to be a clean process, what with overreactions, misunderstandings, and plain old different points of view.

Edit: in case it wasn't clear, the joke that the only women who play x-wing are ones who had a sugar daddy buy them the models was the bit that should probably be kept to a private space.

Sod gender inequality, how many black people are in Star Wars.. i think TWO in the OT (lando and a bespin guard)

Mace Windu in the prequels?

While you might not see a lot of female characters in staring roles, in the backdrops on the movies (i've literally just finished watching ANH) there are loads of women (and possibly women aliens) in the background but very few... read *no* black people or asian people.

Thats a wierder outlook.

Compared to say 'firefly' where there is a good spread of racial and gender types in both main characters and background figures.

You mean people with a sense of humour?

I suspect the intention was more along the lines of "people who don't realize that different social spaces require different standards of behavior."

Humor isn't an excuse, either. The jokes that get told in my living room would make my social circle sound like awful, awful people were they shouted to each other in a park, but because we limit ourselves to environments and audiences that know us, get us, and won't be hurt by the things we say in jest, we avoid the negativity that can come from having a dark, twisted sense of humor.

The stuff I say to my wife after the friends go home is worse.

But never for a moment do I think that letting a stranger hear any of that is even close to acceptable, must less see it typed out (where all of the nuance, body language, etc. gets stripped out).

Geek circles have a bad habit of letting poor behavior slide, probably because of a desire to be a welcoming space for social misfits. Sadly, the line between that a social misfit and a jerk can be blurry, and telling them apart requires a bunch of skills that are highly negatively correlated with being a social misfit. The lack of chastisement is starting to change (see: this thread), but it's never going to be a clean process, what with overreactions, misunderstandings, and plain old different points of view.

Edit: in case it wasn't clear, the joke that the only women who play x-wing are ones who had a sugar daddy buy them the models was the bit that should probably be kept to a private space.

Except its well know A) i'm pro female rights read any thread where gender pops up and 2) i have a tendency to make joke posts.

There is nothing deeper to it than that, i made a joke move past it.

"Echo" is totes a chick bro.

No he's not, and here's the proof. For the record if I had to have a preference I'd prefer one of the Phantom pilots were female... But honestly I don't care.

...

So we have 1 FAQ vs 3 articles, with about 6+ references to Echo as a He.

I think that it's much more likely that the article authors defaulted to male pronouns incorrectly than the FAQ did the opposite, since someone deciding to say "she" is probably a deliberate choice.

That said, I like the idea of the callsign being tied to the ship.

Considering the underlying rules of the English language, this seems most correct to me. "He" is the default for unknown gender (regardless of feminist jihadists), making the use of "she" in the official rules document pretty decisive.

Just had a thought about "Echo" and "Whisper".

We may not have a gender for them, because they're not "real people". Look at every named pilot in the game, and you can find that person from some other canon/EU source. Every named pilot other then the two Phantom ones, had a Wookipedia entry before they showed up in the game.

"Whisper" and "Echo" are the only named pilots created by FFG that I'm aware of. As such they may not be able to give them a gender, or anything else other then a name, because doing so would have to be approved by the Story Team, but if they're just call signs or nick names, then there's no need to get approval.

In fact the Story Team may not allow FFG to create new characters at all, but again a nick name is acceptable, since it's not a actual character.

Sod gender inequality, how many black people are in Star Wars.. i think TWO in the OT (lando and a bespin guard)

Mace Windu in the prequels?

While you might not see a lot of female characters in staring roles, in the backdrops on the movies (i've literally just finished watching ANH) there are loads of women (and possibly women aliens) in the background but very few... read *no* black people or asian people.

Thats a wierder outlook.

Compared to say 'firefly' where there is a good spread of racial and gender types in both main characters and background figures.

Don't forget the (Y-wing?) pilot who dies at Endor.

Edit - meh, it's not worth it.

That image is broken you'll have to reload it.

Sod gender inequality, how many black people are in Star Wars.. i think TWO in the OT (lando and a bespin guard)

Mace Windu in the prequels?

While you might not see a lot of female characters in staring roles, in the backdrops on the movies (i've literally just finished watching ANH) there are loads of women (and possibly women aliens) in the background but very few... read *no* black people or asian people.

Thats a wierder outlook.

Compared to say 'firefly' where there is a good spread of racial and gender types in both main characters and background figures.

1977 vs 2002 things change, holy crap firefly is 12 years old next month.....

Sod gender inequality, how many black people are in Star Wars.. i think TWO in the OT (lando and a bespin guard)

Mace Windu in the prequels?

While you might not see a lot of female characters in staring roles, in the backdrops on the movies (i've literally just finished watching ANH) there are loads of women (and possibly women aliens) in the background but very few... read *no* black people or asian people.

Thats a wierder outlook.

Compared to say 'firefly' where there is a good spread of racial and gender types in both main characters and background figures.

1977 vs 2002 things change, holy crap firefly is 12 years old next month.....

Why...WHY DID WE ONLY GET ONE SEASON?????

Why...WHY DID WE ONLY GET ONE SEASON?????

Not even a full one at that...

Saw something with Nathan Fillion, they asked him what he most wished he could of done with Firefly, his answer was "Season 8."

Don't forget the (Y-wing?) pilot who dies at Endor.

That's Karie Neth. She's one of the reasons I'm still holding out hope for Y-wings in the next Aces-style pack, even though they're (probably? sort of?) getting that treatment in Most Wanted.

Also, addressed to the world in general: I am trying, inspired by mrfroggies, to Post Casual. Gender essentialism, resentful misogyny, and jokes that are at best in really poor taste are really, really not helping change the tone of the forum--and, more personally, it's like asking me to give up my shooting-fish-in-barrels habit and then walking me past a really narrow barrel full of really slow fish.

What I'm saying is that it's not cool, and it would be nice if you guys (because there's no doubt you're all men, or at least boys) could help make sure those things stop happening.

Fleet Officer reminds me of Allison Haninghan and the bint from Ruthlessness could interrogate me all she wanted.

You realize there's a Trandoshan there, too, right? They might always work as a pair.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious...

Except its well know A) i'm pro female rights read any thread where gender pops up and 2) i have a tendency to make joke posts.

There is nothing deeper to it than that, i made a joke move past it.

But that's just it, you're not well known for being pro female rights to everyone here. My only exposure to you is a sexist joke you made in this thread.

Again, I've said far, far worse in private; I don't have a problem with the content of the joke, but I think that your choice of audience was poor. I don't mean to pick on you specifically, but you're responding rationally, so hey - maybe there can actually be a conversation (rare in these kinds of threads).

Except its well know A) i'm pro female rights read any thread where gender pops up and 2) i have a tendency to make joke posts.

There is nothing deeper to it than that, i made a joke move past it.

But that's just it, you're not well known for being pro female rights to everyone here. My only exposure to you is a sexist joke you made in this thread.

Again, I've said far, far worse in private; I don't have a problem with the content of the joke, but I think that your choice of audience was poor. I don't mean to pick on you specifically, but you're responding rationally, so hey - maybe there can actually be a conversation (rare in these kinds of threads).

I accept your apology then your new so you don't know any better so I'll bury the hatchet i was sharpening in a puppy and we'll leave it at hat.

Hehe…I had a game a couple weeks ago, my opponent kept referring to Howlrunner as a “he,” so i pointed out the character was a woman. He just said “let’s agree to disagree” It’d be pretty hard for him to argue if he saw that card.

He just said “let’s agree to disagree” It’d be pretty hard for him to argue if he saw that card.

In the case of Howlrunner, the character has appeared in a number of Legends sources now, so it's not really an matter that's up to debate.

Fighting over pictures of cartoon girls AGAIN... are we?!

Chill Nerds!

You who's a fit cartoon? Korra.

Oh she stays fit just fine... but she ain't a cartoon, she is a real lady!

And her work is never done... go girl!

Here's something slightly off-topic (because this thread needs it).

Where were this pics from, the RPG? And did they show Echo or Whisper, both who are female?

The Howlrunner pic is a card from the new Armada game. Someone snapped this at GenCon and the image has been circulating. I guess her squadron comes with the core set...?

James said that the demo we played included ships from two core sets and fighter squadrons from one. Each player controlled either a Victory Star Destroyer and two (or was it three?) TIE fighter squadrons or one Nebulon B, one CR-90, and two X-wing squadrons. In addition to Howlrunner, there was a Luke Skywalker squadron. Luke's ability had something to do with bypassing shields. The named squadrons also received defensive bonus tokens.

To me pilots don't matter anyway, because the card just shows the ship. Crew cards are more important, as we actually see the character there.

I mean technically any "Rookie Pilot" or "Academy Pilot" can be any gender you want them to be.

Yep. Works for me!

Where do I sign up?

That's a much more effective recruitment poster than Porkins in a bikini that I saw during my last trip to Bespin.

Hey, that Porkins poster is pretty hot as well.

Nice recovery from the scuffle guys and HoboJesus. =)