Why can't I hold all those collars

By Elavion, in Black Crusade

Ok, here's the deal: There are two Collars of Khorne. One of them in core rulebook (pg301), it's a Khorne Reward that grants auto-passing Blood God's Contempt. The other one is in The Tome of Blood (pg44), it's a purchasable Extremely Rare item that counts as a Null Rod (and prevents Force Weapons activation).

What should I do about it? Treat them as two separate items (rename one for clarity)? Remove one of them and only use the rules of the other? If accepting both of those, should they be stackable?

AFAIK bonuses that do the same thing (IE say jog on psychic stuffs) only the highest bonus applies and it does not stack unless it is explicitly declared that it would. Combat modifiers for example do stack, +30 for it being the size of a house, +30 for it being so close it can blow your nose for a total of +60 etc.

However in this instance the effects of both are not technically the same. One prevents you from being targetted by psychic powers by making a WP test to shrug it off while the other grants a bonus to resist and can negate others cast nearby. Since they are effectively different then there is no need to worry about stacking and the eventual bonus is:

- Immunity to psychic powers on a WP roll (Collar)

- Bonus to resist force powers which target you which can help with the above (Rod)

- Chance to negate force powers which are used near you (Rod)

Edited by Calgor Grim

Technically they're not the same item either. One is a Collar granted to the wearer as a Gift, and it has a far more dramatic effect (outright stopping psychic powers). The other is a Collar gained not via a gift, and thus its effects are lessened somewhat.

BYE

Going back to the old Realm of Chaos description, the one given as an item is probably the same item, it's just that the Gift version is the one that Khorne personally gives a champion, and those who loot it after said champion dies get the lesser effect.

Technically they're not the same item either. One is a Collar granted to the wearer as a Gift, and it has a far more dramatic effect (outright stopping psychic powers). The other is a Collar gained not via a gift, and thus its effects are lessened somewhat.

BYE

Furthermore, the use of the "gift" Collar of Khorne, which functions as the Blood Lord's Contempt Talent, requires the expenditure of Infamy Points. The "equipment" Collar of Khorne doesn't.

It's a very strange inconsistency and likely one that simply arose from the writer of said equipment section not being aware of the existence of the Collar of Khorne gift.

Honestly, I'd simply give whomever receives the Collar of Khorne Gift the Collar of Khorne Equipment, too. It's not overly powerful, it takes care of the inconsistency, and it makes sense that the Collar of Khorne Gift would already have the effects of the item anyway.

It's a very strange inconsistency and likely one that simply arose from the writer of said equipment section not being aware of the existence of the Collar of Khorne gift.

That or it gives an option for non Khorne-aligned to have some psychic resistance.

It's a very strange inconsistency and likely one that simply arose from the writer of said equipment section not being aware of the existence of the Collar of Khorne gift.

That or it gives an option for non Khorne-aligned to have some psychic resistance.

That would be fine, but at the same time, then why would they differ so greatly in functionality? If it was simply a matter of psychic resistance, just slap a +10 to resist psychic powers onto that, or something, or merely boosting the Blood Lord's Contempt.

Right now, a smart Khornite would get himself two Collars of Khorne, by RAW - one Reward and one Equipment. It makes no sense, but yeah.

If it where up to me, when a khorne folower has one and aquires the other, the two items meld together and form one itme with the combined abilities of both. Otherwise you have a whole bunch of collars around your neck.

I don't think the Gift was supposed to require Infamy points to use.

Also, I'm fairly certain that being immune to psychic powers means you're immune to being force weapon'd.

My own verdict on this, pending approval by the group's resident khornate tornado of murder, is:

When you receive the Collar of Khorne as a reward, it counts as the equipment profile in Tome of Blood, meaning that it works (roughly) as a Null Rod; it forces all psykers within 2d10 metres (rolled at the start of an encounter as a Free Action, or re-rolled as a Full Action by the user at any point) to take all tests to use any psychic powers at a -30 Penalty. Just like a Null Rod, it also offers personal protection from psychic attacks by granting a +30 bonus to resist any psychic power that directly affects the wearer. Finally, as per the Collar in Tome of Blood, it also negates the use of Force Weapons against the wearer. As opposed to a Null Rod, it cannot be used as an improvised power weapon, because that would be dumb. As per the Reward of Khorne Collar, a Collar of Khorne can never ever be removed through any natural means.

Additionally, if the character granted a Collar of Khorne have the Blood God's Contempt Talent, the Collar of Khorne acts precisely as the listed Reward of Khorne. This simply means that when using Blood God's Contempt, no Willpower Test is required to resist psychic powers, and as per the Errata, the wearer no longer needs to do the ritual of contempt nor spend an hour preparing for battle.

Lastly, again as per the listed profile in Tome of Blood, should a Collar of Khorne somehow be removed and be placed on a defenceless psyker, the metal will contract, consigning him to an agonising, choking death that cannot be avoided except through burning 1d5 Infamy or a Fate Point. To this, I would add a +0 Focus Power Test because **** psykers.

I find this a completely reasonable compromise and it actually turns the Collar of Khorne into a supremely powerful artifact, without just handing out a free pre-existing Talent, which might actually be annoying to a khornite that has already taken the Talent and now feel that it was wasted due to the reward.

Edit: If acquired strictly as a piece of equipment (perhaps from a fallen Champion of Khorne) and not as a Reward of Khorne, the Collar of Khorne simply acts as a Null Rod with a range of 1d10 metres. If someone not aligned to khorne or unaligned were to equip it, the collar would attempt to strangle them, requiring a +0 Strength Test to avoid, or suffer the same fate as psykers. Psykers do not get the Strength Check, because **** psykers.

Edited by Fgdsfg

Edit: If acquired strictly as a piece of equipment (perhaps from a fallen Champion of Khorne) and not as a Reward of Khorne, the Collar of Khorne simply acts as a Null Rod with a range of 1d10 metres. If someone not aligned to khorne or unaligned were to equip it, the collar would attempt to strangle them, requiring a +0 Strength Test to avoid, or suffer the same fate as psykers. Psykers do not get the Strength Check, because **** psykers.

I'd limit that to Slaaneshi characters. Khorne seems like the kind of guy who would go "You slew my champion - well done!" and hand the spoils to the victor.