As exciting (and polarizing) the news about a 3rd faction is, I'm absolutely perplexed about why they chose to start cross-factioning ships? Why didn't they do it earlier with the Lambda and HWK?

Did anyone ask about this?

Can someone who's still at the con ask one of the designers about this?

One of the things that drew me to the game is the visual aspect – the fantastically painted miniatures. I'm sure it brings a lot of players to the game. Every time we bust out the X-Wing at our FLGS, RPGers, eurogamers and 28mm lead heads come ogling.

Not only is the visual aspect so appealing, but there is a strong visual language. You immediately recognize what faction is what. Even among the less recognized EU ships.

But now with the 3rd faction, you could run a group of ships that could mirror the Rebels. Or I suppose if you ran all Firesprays, they could be Imperial.

So with all their artists and designers working on Armada, Assualt and Command, did they not have enough manpower to come up with 4 new ships (instead of the Y-Wing, Z-95, HWK and Firespray). There are so many options out there. If they're willing to use the Scyk, IG 2000 and Virago, they could've added the Cloakshape, Preybird and JumpMaster (just examples))

But why? Why are they sullying the visual elegance of the game. Especially using the Y-Wing as a Scum and Villany ship, one of the most iconic ships of Star Wars lore. Was the Y-Wing even that commonplace among Fringers? That ship, if any other is so strongly connected to the Rebel Alliance.

No. Enough said.

Do you have any idea how much it cost to make a new model?

Well, yours is certainly one point of view.

For my part, I think they did well to capture the notion that in this galaxy the Y-Wing and the Z-95 are Old Republic hand-me-downs, and the rebellion is not the only gang to get ahold of them. They're like F-16s, which are flown by numerous countries' air forces. I want them to capture that essence of the SWU.

I have to agree with Mikael above me: the Rebellion did have ragtag equipment for the earlier era's of the early civil war and it's not at all surprising with the new faction that they also happen to have that aspect to their fleet. Honestly, this is a completely welcome change to me since aside from the Firespray, the other three Rebel ships fill rather niche spots and now can probably do something completely new.

I have no idea how this is at all lazy.

Well, they are doing repaints of some of the ships; so you'll have an 'S&V version' and a 'Rebel' version. Personally though, I think it's great. Not only is it a way of giving some love and boosts to underused ships like the Y-Wing and HWK (a bit like an aces pack), it also allows the 3rd faction to catch up quickly in terms of number of ships. The only other alternative would be releasing a ton of new ships, and then anyone who wants to get into the 3rd faction would have to drop like £100 or more just to get started. This way, it makes it easier.

The Y-wing and especially the Z95 were two of the most common pirate ships in the EU, so it's fitting that they're part of the S&V faction. I don't see it as lazy at all, the Most Wanted pack allows the new faction to nearly match the originl two, by just developing 3 new ships and new pilots for 4 existing ones.

I'm not sure it's lazy, as it probably takes some good designing to shoe-horn a third faction into an existing game like this while keeping it balanced. It certainly feels disjointed from the rest of their work on this product line so far, though.

Just head into it with an open mind and see how things work out. It's okay to think their decision is a bad movie, but it's no good to go into the new game with a negative bias.

Its well know that almost everyone and his mum had a headhunter and the Y-wing was stupidly common. It fits that the cheap to buy and easily obtained ships go in the SaV. Plus it hopeful adds something to rebel Y-wings 'cus I think it could do with some love.

I think it's great news all round.

People have been asking for improvements/modifications to Y-Wings. They've got it.

People have been asking for more Bounty Hunters. They've got them.

People have been asking for a third faction featuring more ships from the EU. They've got it.

And not only have FFG given people what they've asked for and wanted - they've done so in a way which makes total thematic sense. Wave six gives us three new EU ships, plus an upgrade set which allows the new faction to field a total of seven, instantly putting it on a level with the existing factions in the game! How in the world is that lazy?

Plus - repainted Headhunters as well? Great, now I can field standard Headhunters as Tala Squadron and the new repaints as Bandit squadrons! Awesome!

But why? Why are they sullying the visual elegance of the game. Especially using the Y-Wing as a Scum and Villany ship, one of the most iconic ships of Star Wars lore. Was the Y-Wing even that commonplace among Fringers? That ship, if any other is so strongly connected to the Rebel Alliance.

The Y wing dates back to the clone wars and is used by many pirate groups and many planetary governments. If a being was to dig through a junk yard on tatooine or taris they would have a pretty good chance of finding a Y wing hull or some assorted Y wing parts.

Same with the Z95.

You all remember how everybody said there was no way FFG can do a new faction, because that new faction would be out numbered and out gunned.

Ha, Ha! NOPE!

So now we get to have a valid converted Firespray.

Uuh-Huh!

That is silly cool because we all know that these Bounty Hunters would be all skick and hanging out with Pirates.

That is not FFG being lazy.

FFG are very smart people indeed and I respect them for that.

No it's well known the headhunter and y-wing fighters were used by pirates, releasing a £30 that lets you turn five existing ships into a third faction is clever not lazy, if you do rebels you already own a decent sized force of s&v.

More original ships will follow to give parity to rebels and imps, but for now this gives a third faction a solid base for a very reasonable cost.

I just watched the FFG GenCon Day 2 video. The rep said that "repaints of old ships and repurposes of other ships to make the Scum and Villainy faction completely viable right out the gate."

I'll certainly give Wave 6 a go and buy every single item. But right off the bat, cross-faction ships seem like a cop out.

They've muddied the waters.

The Y-Wing, aside from the X-Wing and Falcon, was among the most iconic of Rebel ships from the Canon.

There's plenty of EU fluff that puts all sorts of ships in the hands of all sorts of factions. The X-Wing was designed for the imperials The YT-1300 was used by pretty much everyone. Rebels stole TIEs and the Lambda.

I'm going to throw this out there.

What if Fantasy Flight:

1. Kept Y-Wings and Z's Rebel exclusive and released a Cloakshape Fighter, Toscan, Starchaser (or something else) instead of a repainted Y or Z?
2. Came out with a Battle of Yavin pack (that so many players thought would happen). With fixes for the Ys and Advanced (and maybe some Turbo laser towers for good measure).

This would suck up a lot more designer time (yes, new maneuver dials) and new models (they ain't cheap). But would this put anyone off?

For five waves ships stayed with a single faction. It made for a very clean looking game. I was totally pumped for a 3rd faction, but I didn't want to run ships from another faction, even if there's a backstory behind it.

Yes, I'd be diapointed if I couldn't use Z95s and Firesprays in the third faction, not just for the pirate aspect, but Bossk will probably be one of the headhunter pilots, and you gotta fly Boba & Bossk together. Soon I'll have a reason to use my HWK, one of many rebel ship I own but never use since I'm one of those weird Imperial only players, well, until wave 6 that is.

If they don't use existing ships you have a faction with three ships that's outgunned from the start, what's more bobba being imperial has been a complaint for quite a few people but now we have a faction well suited to having mercs in it.

And it must be stressed again z-95 and y-wings were never exclusively rebel, they are old common ships plenty of groups use because they can't afford newer ships, pirates used headquarters in tie fighter they were I think the first ship you fought.

Instead people should be praising ffg for finding a way to start a new faction that does not break the bank, one set that gives three models and two ship upgrades is exactly the kind of thing you'd never see from GW.

Exactly, not lazy, **** smart planning on FFGs part

Instead people should be praising ffg for finding a way to start a new faction that does not break the bank, one set that gives three models and two ship upgrades is exactly the kind of thing you'd never see from GW.

ABSOLUTELY THIS.

I currently own 2 Firesprays, 2 Z-95's and 2 Y-Wings.

I'm one Most Wanted box set away from being able to enjoy fielding a full pirate faction (and that's without even considering the potential "Aces"-style upgrades, improvements and additions the box could make to these ships in general...)

How is this lazy? This is what players were asking for. Players have been constantly asking for a third "fringer" faction, and for just as long have wanted the Firespray, and z-95 in it. And the biggest complaint in any "third faction" thread is that any new faction would not have enough ships at the start to have the variety of the other factions.

They gave players what they wanted AND solved that problem. And I"m sure every wave from here on out will have more 'scum and villainy" ships. The only other alternative was to has a smaller faction and slowly wait for it to come out, because they were never going to release a wave of 7 ships all at once.

On top of that the "Most Wanted" box set is going to be a huge value for players while being relatively easy for FFG to produce. Everyone wins.

In a day of really reaching to complain about stuff, this has to be the worst. Well, maybe the second worst.

There's nothing the least bit off about this. If anything, the Z-95 belongs more to Scum than it does the Rebels. But giving it to Scum as well is somehow wrong? Same goes for the Firespray. Including it with the Imperials was honestly more shoehorned in than having it as a Scum ship.

Will we see all the other Scum fighters mentioned? Almost certainly. How is reusing a couple of ships - which have EVERY RIGHT to be reused, given their background - lazy? It's not like they gave them TIE Interceptors or something crazy. Should they never produce a Scum Y-wing or Z-95 just because they made the model for the Rebels first?

Wave 6 is going to give us 3 new ships - the IG-2000/Aggressor, Star Viper, Scyk - and leverage three existing ships. But even more importantly, with them releasing before the end of 2014, that's going to give us Wave 4, Wave 5, Wave 6, and Rebel Aces in the space of about 6 months. Stop and do the math there for a minute - that's 9 new sculpts and 5 repaints with new pilots/upgrades, in the space of what used to be a standard wave for 4 new ships.

Let's break this into a new paragraph to emphasize it...

Wave 6 will fill out a production/release schedule that is FOUR TIMES faster than what we've historically seen.

You can question their decision to reuse the ships if you want, but "lazy"? That's not only wrong, but ignorant and insulting.

Star Wars is different things to different people, and some love the bounty hunters and the criminals and the pirates just as much as others love the rebels.

Some love the Empire....

Star Wars is different things to different people, and some love the bounty hunters and the criminals and the pirates just as much as others love the rebels.

Some love the Empire....

No my friend we LOVE the Empire.

Would have loved to have seen some uglies.

Really like the repacked ships. I'm sure FFG know what there doing. I can imagine they will either have a update card inside the boxes/blisters or they'll do an official rules sheet to download. So people can use YT1300 and Firespray in scum. Might even be first big ship repaints

I don't see how (balanced) new options of ships can be a bad thing. Z-95s are more Pirate than Rebel, Y-wings were popular with them too, the Firespray-31 doesn't have a single actually Imperial pilot, and the HWK's a generic freighter in need of an update too.

Personally I think it improves the thematic feel of the game. Pirates having Z-95s and Y-wings too makes it more visually apparent that they're salvaged equipment and the Rebels are making use of everything they can get.

The HWK and Firespray stuff I'd wager is a bunch of S&V pilot cards, just as they'll have S&V generics (probably at PS1 and PS3) for the Y-wing and Z-95 Headhunter. Interested to see if they include the Rebel cards too.