I LOVE the Morality mechanic from Force & Destiny and how it tracks the morality of players in regard to their possible descent to the dark side. However, one flaw I see is how does this relate to force using professions from Edge of the Empire (Force Sensitive Exile) and Age of Rebellion (Force Sensitive Emergent)? Force users in Edge of the Empire use Obligation and force users in Age of Rebellion use Duty.

So are the only force users that use Morality the ones from the Force & Destiny book? If so, I find this incredibly stupid because the Morality mechanics should be the overall force user mechanics. They simulate what it means to use the force and the oscillation between the light side and the dark side.

Any thoughts?

There is nothing stopping you from using Morality in an Edge/Age game. It actually helps with the issue some have with ayers shooting first and not bothering to ask questions. Just like Edge/Destiny characters can have Duty and Age/Destiny characters can have Obligation.

I'm not really sure what other advice you're looking for.. It's designed to be used by itself or in conjunction with Duty/Onligation.

-EF

If you start using Morality in an existing game, your players can add Morality to their character (much like existing EotE characters could add Duty to their characters when AoR came out). The decision to do this should probably be a group one, and should be handled like the decision to include Obligation and/or Duty for each character (both for everyone, one or the other for everyone, or everyone can choose to take one or both of them as fits their character concept). Each character so taking on the Morality mechanic would start tracking their Conflict each session, and would be eligible for the paragon/dark sider thingies.

This isn't even limited to Force users, although Force users have a more definite means of building their conflict, which is the activation of Dark Side Force points. But anyone can build conflict, and certainly anyone could benefit from being a paragon of virtue. So...something to aspire to, perhaps.

For me, this hearkens back to KotOR II, which I thought had delicious gameplay mechanics. It's a great way of showing Alignment, and it's a great way (if you want to) to introduce the possibility of awakening Force sensitivity in any/all of your PCs.

TL;DR the games work just fine together. Use/don't use whatever aspects you want in a yummy Star Wars gumbo.

This isn't even limited to Force users, although Force users have a more definite means of building their conflict, which is the activation of Dark Side Force points. But anyone can build conflict, and certainly anyone could benefit from being a paragon of virtue. So...something to aspire to, perhaps.

If we were to implement this into our game - purely hypothetical, mind you - I would probably adopt something like the WEG model. Jedi and Force Users are held to a higher standard of morality than normal schlubbs.

A Mundane can get a dark side point (or in this case, a morality hit), but they have to be meaner and naughty-er than a Jedi, who is expected to take the high road at all times. A Mundane can lie and cheat and be more violent and get away with it - in the eyes of the Force.

I see lying and cheating as more symptomatic than causal in terms of...dark sidey-ness.

Simple question to ask when handing out Conflict: Would what you're doing make Palpatine cackle, and say "Gooood..."? The more cackles from Palpatine, the more Conflict you should get.

This comes from just having glossed over the rules this morning, but I think it's a pretty solid metric

We can call it...the cackleometer.

I have two Force users in me Edge game and I think I'll use this. The only pitfall I see is the hired gun gaining DSPs like mad!

Running Morality in an Edge game seems like it would totally frak-up the tone.

I could see using it for Age, however, on FR 1+ characters only.

Running Morality in an Edge game seems like it would totally frak-up the tone.

I could see using it for Age, however, on FR 1+ characters only.

How would it frak up the tone? Edge is about fringers mainly doing the right thing. They're trying to be decent people. The morality mechanic would showcase that real well. Use the dark side/neutral/light side divide to help show how people react othe them. With fear or revulsion for DS characters. With respect and admiration—and maybe a little concern, since no one on the fringe is that noble—for LS characters. For neutral, pick one that fits the current mission and their leanings.

-EF

Also, boost/setback dice for DS/LS characters! DS characters should get boost dice for skill rolls like Coercion and Deceit, while LS characters should get boost dice for Charm and Negotiation. Leadership could go either way, depending on if they're good cop/bad cop.

-EF

We will be using all three (Obligation, Duty and Morality) at some point. We have yet to move into AoR and may add Morality when we start AoR.

It will be fun to have all three working at the same time. The thought of doing something and effecting all three be it good or bad is awesome.

Force push BBEG off the cliff

Obligation -1

Duty +2

Morality -3

= Awesome!

My Force Emergent is going to pick up the Morality thing tomorrow when we play Edge. I don't think it will really mess up the "tone" of my game. My guys are already the good guys, just on the wrong side of the law. And if does really mes stuff, then we will just toss it then. I think it will bring something good into the game and the story.

It will be something to figure out what will bring the score up or down and by how much.

Personally, I don't have any force droolers in either of my groups. I may have one once the Beta gets here, that wants to give it a shot. That said, I'm planning on morality being the core mechanic for anyone that delves into a force tree, regardless of where they accessed it from. The EtoE and AoR force careers are re-printed in the F&D book, so that's where they are going to come from. I find the force too easy to abuse to have it running around under obligation or duty rules, where there are not any serious (character defining) repercussions for said abuse.

I for one and glad, and excited to see how this new mechanic plays out, so I'm kind of hoping to get a force drooler on-board here soon.

Yes, definitely. Our Force-Scoundrel just 'waved his hand' (testing out his new influence skill) to bring the price down negotiating with corrupt docking bay officials... from 25 cr/day, to 12.5 cr/day. Woo hoo!

I just read it and I'm definitely going to add it, it's a pretty elegant and simple system for keeping track of where PCs rate on a Hero/Villain scale. It'll be useful to discourage Murder Hobos

I also like the Emotional Strengths and Weaknesses as a good RP element. Lot's of good RP stuff that I can see in this beta.

Also, boost/setback dice for DS/LS characters! DS characters should get boost dice for skill rolls like Coercion and Deceit, while LS characters should get boost dice for Charm and Negotiation. Leadership could go either way, depending on if they're good cop/bad cop.

-EF

Also, boost/setback dice for DS/LS characters! DS characters should get boost dice for skill rolls like Coercion and Deceit, while LS characters should get boost dice for Charm and Negotiation. Leadership could go either way, depending on if they're good cop/bad cop.

-EF

Eh...I think I'd leave that off. I'd certainly consider their morality when making a social check (like obligation and duty), but I don't think I'd hard-code it into the system.

Not "hard-coded" per-se. But that's what boost/setback dice are for, those "other" elements that might hurt or hinder. A paragon of virtue would have a reputation of being honest and on the level. That sounds like a great source of a boost die or two.

-EF

I like the Morality mechanic too, but I am wondering, are folks intending to apply it to non-Force sensitives too?

I am also wondering if it would be applicable to non-force users.

I'm personally in favour of adding it, although I'll take it up with my players first. The exception being anyone who wants to play a Force user (none yet, but one player is planning to); Force Sensitives get the Morality mechanic as a default in my campaign.

I think it could apply to the non-Force users. Got a prisoner bound and gagged and you pop him? Eat some negative Morality, Murder Hobo. Your group members with more positive Morality will view your actions in a negative way and may start to resent having you around.

You're bad karma, man...

If applying the mechanic to EotE or AoR PCs, the player should probably have the option of taking it or not. IMO it shouldn't be imposed unless you're giving it to everyone with no exceptions.

Only thing to watch there is how you present it, since the average Murder-Hobo might detect a stifling effort

Only thing to watch there is how you present it, since the average Murder-Hobo might detect a stifling effort

I don't think I'd encourage non-Force using characters to use the Morality rules as they now stand. It'd be far too easy for one to become a paragon and take advantage of the (modest, granted) strain benefit. A non Force user only has a couple ways to earn Conflict in a session, and assuming they roll average or better than that on a d10 every session, it won't take long for them to hit the 70+ Morality threshold and get the strain benefit.

Whereas a Force-user has multiple ways to earn Conflict.

As an aside, I didn't see a better place to post it, but I'm disappointed that the beta rules don't address any good or selfless acts a character might perform that would enable them to remove Conflict points. As it exists, the game potentially penalizes you for wrong-doing, but provides no potential reward for good-doing.

Also, the d10 roll at the end of a session bugs me. One could gain, say, 6 Conflict in a session by doing evil or naughty acts, roll a 10 on the d10, and see their Morality improve rather than decrease. That makes zero sense to me.

As an aside, I didn't see a better place to post it, but I'm disappointed that the beta rules don't address any good or selfless acts a character might perform that would enable them to remove Conflict points. As it exists, the game potentially penalizes you for wrong-doing, but provides no potential reward for good-doing.

Also, the d10 roll at the end of a session bugs me. One could gain, say, 6 Conflict in a session by doing evil or naughty acts, roll a 10 on the d10, and see their Morality improve rather than decrease. That makes zero sense to me.

The second paragraph there kind of answers the first -- 5 or 6 conflict is the baseline for, on average, no change in Morality. That is incredibly forgiving, so no need to count good deeds. Wanton murder, earning 10+ conflict is always going to sink your Morality, but being a recalcitrant douché won't. Morality is your standing vis-a-vis the Force and respecting life, not how nice of a guy you are.

From a game theory perspective, the d10 makes perfect sense. If it were a static threshold, people would just game the system. With the random roll, you have to ask yourself, "Do I feel lucky?" Because even a few points might drop your Morality.

I like the idea of renaming "Morality" to "Duality".