So a third faction is now official, and we have an idea of the ships that will be in it. And although it will be simple to make all the ships and pilots unique from the other two factions, how can this third faction have as unique a play style and feel as the other two?

Imperials are cheaper, lighter, and more maneuverable. Rebels are more expensive, chunkier, and less maneuverable. (there are exceptions for both of course). Most people who choose a side to mainly play do so because they enjoy that sides play style. But how can the third faction have it's own unique play style? What can make it appeal to certain people, other than just having different ships? Will this problem make Scum and Villainy ultimately doomed to never become as successful a faction as the others?

Please Discuss.....

Cheap, unreliable ships that aren't military precise. So unique "one-off" ships won't be uncommon, alongside obsolete ships that are just the side notes for the main factions.

I would guess that there will be an emphasis on unique pilot abilities, given the (presumably) pirate nature of the faction--especially for each of the bounty hunters. IG-88 will likely have an ability on par with Mistuh Fett, f'rinstance.

I would also guess that the named pilots will be more like Soontir Fel than like Howrunner, i.e., lone operators rather than hippie group-hug types...

Well, of the seven ships in the faction so far, we know the stats of four of them outright (Y-Wing, Z-95, Slave 1, and HWK-290).

And they...let's just say...don't have much in common.

I think we'll see the same thing with the other ships - the thing for the scum and villainy faction would appear to be "ships with absolutely no synergy with each other at all".

As a guess, I'd say - given the nature of smugglers and pirates to try to AVOID combat, rather than requiring systems that are re-usable in battle after battle - we'll get a lot more cards with them that are atypically powerful, but one-off uses (IE., more 'discard to use' elite talents/upgrades/crew/etc than Rebels or Imperials...where such things are relatively rare, at least before the wave 5 ships, anyway...)

Their synergies and faction specific upgrades I imagine will help drive their flavor.

I wonder if they will have different maneuver dials for the repaints...

Dirty tactics, maybe. Abilities that remove focus, evade or target locks.

At this point, Rebels and Imperials both have swarms, turrets and tanky ships. The differences are a little blurry. But it's nice to be able to play any faction and build the sort of squad you enjoy playing.

Upgrades like Rebel Captive will get a little weird. Why would scum & villainy care about that?

I'm expecting more upgrades and abilities that emphasize anti-swarming. These are pirates and bounty hunters, who like to work alone. That should be reflected.

Scum and Villainy will likely get faction specific options. The first that pops into my head is Z-95's may get a missile slot upgrade that improves primary attack by 1. I imagine the ships will be all about customization, so they will receive unique benefits to make them more personalized for their pilots.

I'm thinking a lot of this factions ships can have two (or more) modifications applied.

I'm not sure you're giving the design space as much credit. Rebel ships also tend to have a lot more synergy in their abilities, and more variety in upgrades. Imperials tend to specialize their roles more.

I think there's plenty of design space for another feel. Games like Warmachine manage a dozen factions which manage to feel unique.

So what could we see? Maybe unreliable ships - these are maintained by untrained mechanics with even fewer resources than the Rebellion. Ships that are solid in given areas, but with notable drawbacks. Maybe even the cost-break upgrades that have been discussed around here. Pilot abilities can emphasize a combination of individuality (much like Lone Wolf) or uncoordinated pack tactics. Push the Limit lets you get a second action for stress, Wingman lets you remove one from a close ally, what about an ability that let a pilot give an ally stress in order to get an extra action? We'll call it "My Kill!"

I think there's plenty of room for new, interesting, and distinct in the feel of Scum. Which is also why I suspect we're seeing Scum, rather than the Smugglers and Spies side. Smugglers really don't have much of a different feel, style-wise, than Rebels - they're all heart-of-gold scoundrels fighting the odds. Pirates, though... A bunch of abilities that help a pilot by kinda screwing over his wingmates would be awesome.

Upgrades like Rebel Captive will get a little weird. Why would scum & villainy care about that?

"You are free to use any methods necessary but I want them alive - no disintegrations!"

I'm not sure you're giving the design space as much credit. Rebel ships also tend to have a lot more synergy in their abilities, and more variety in upgrades. Imperials tend to specialize their roles more.

I think there's plenty of design space for another feel. Games like Warmachine manage a dozen factions which manage to feel unique.

So what could we see? Maybe unreliable ships - these are maintained by untrained mechanics with even fewer resources than the Rebellion. Ships that are solid in given areas, but with notable drawbacks. Maybe even the cost-break upgrades that have been discussed around here. Pilot abilities can emphasize a combination of individuality (much like Lone Wolf) or uncoordinated pack tactics. Push the Limit lets you get a second action for stress, Wingman lets you remove one from a close ally, what about an ability that let a pilot give an ally stress in order to get an extra action? We'll call it "My Kill!"

I think there's plenty of room for new, interesting, and distinct in the feel of Scum. Which is also why I suspect we're seeing Scum, rather than the Smugglers and Spies side. Smugglers really don't have much of a different feel, style-wise, than Rebels - they're all heart-of-gold scoundrels fighting the odds. Pirates, though... A bunch of abilities that help a pilot by kinda screwing over his wingmates would be awesome.

I like that. A handful of uncoordinated, individualistic personalities who have to join up to fight for a battle against the Imperials, Rebels, or another group of pirates. I would love it if the play style emphasized exactly what you suggested - seemingly stupid actions and maneuvers to give one ship a buff, but then through upgrades and modifications the synergy is awesome, like everything managed to work out after a long series of unplanned, impulsive decisions.

Upgrades like Rebel Captive will get a little weird. Why would scum & villainy care about that?

"You are free to use any methods necessary but I want them alive - no disintegrations!"

I don't see it. I'm playing Imperials with a Rebel Captive. You're playing Scum & Villainy. I don't see why you'd care about that Rebel captive any more than you'd care about the pilots in the Imperial ships. Why take stress for that?

I mean, it's not a big deal, but it seems like a third faction was just never given any serious consideration until recently. I'm sure things will be fine, and card text can always be revised.

By good, solid and creative game mechanichs, playtested and designed by smart and talentful game designers.

I am not one, so i can't tell you the specifics, but speculate about them. Dials could be different, for starters, as the stats of their ships, due to more modifications, or poor maintanance, whatever.

How about the ability to capture crew members until the ship holding the crew member captive is destroyed? But it comes with a penalty to the capturing ship, such as a mandatory stress per turn or reduced damage output because of precious cargo... or something

because it has freaking StarVipers. Deal with it

I think I'm going to bow out of a lot of these threads until wave 6 releases and the rancor dies down.

More options is always exciting! :-)

I don't see it. I'm playing Imperials with a Rebel Captive. You're playing Scum & Villainy. I don't see why you'd care about that Rebel captive any more than you'd care about the pilots in the Imperial ships. Why take stress for that?

I mean, it's not a big deal, but it seems like a third faction was just never given any serious consideration until recently. I'm sure things will be fine, and card text can always be revised.

I think it's pretty much the same as Rebel Captive in an Imperial vs. Imperial match.

And there are plenty of reasons I can think of. The Rebels could be offering a reward (as Glentopher suggests). Maybe the Rebel Captive isn't actually a Rebel, but a mistaken arrest from your crew. Maybe it's an Imperial splinter faction holding the captive, and the Imperials want him (or vice versa).

Maybe it's a bit of a stretch... but it's certainly no worse than trying to imagine why every pilot in the galaxy wants Biggs so very dead.

I think it's pretty much the same as Rebel Captive in an Imperial vs. Imperial match.

Sure, that's fair, since tournament play throws theme out the window anyway. Wedge can kill himself in a tournament match.

At last, the Empire can annihilate the pirate scum!

I think pirates and hunters could have abilities that disable or sabotage enemy ships, maybe even steal upgrades (like discarded 1 secondary weapon).

Upgrades like Rebel Captive will get a little weird. Why would scum & villainy care about that?

"You are free to use any methods necessary but I want them alive - no disintegrations!"

I don't see it. I'm playing Imperials with a Rebel Captive. You're playing Scum & Villainy. I don't see why you'd care about that Rebel captive any more than you'd care about the pilots in the Imperial ships. Why take stress for that?

I mean, it's not a big deal, but it seems like a third faction was just never given any serious consideration until recently. I'm sure things will be fine, and card text can always be revised.

Because I can sell that rebel captive back to the rebels

Hit & run missions against imperials to steal technology and/or slaves to sell.

Seek & destroy missions against rebels as contract mercenaries for the Empire.

Just general power struggle against other S&V factions in mirror matches.

These are just a few examples why S&V is justified. It'll be fine and people will enjoy the game as long as it remains balanced. The dice give enough variance to combat results to keep things interesting even if the balance is not perfect. I'm more interested to see how they make the actual ships feel unique instead of just "this is basically an XXXXXX with less/more attack/agility/hull/shields/maneuver dial/points cost". The only thing I wish, is that it will not trip over too much gimmicks as that slows the game down a bit. Keep the abilities "flow" intuitive.

I trust they will make it fine as I think even FFG wants to see variance in lists at their tournaments.

Because I can sell that rebel captive back to the rebels

You mean, after you blow up the ship he's in? Or, after the rebel captive survives because he blew your ship up?