Ok, I need to see if I got everything straight. Take the following:

- Captain Oicunn: "After executing a manoeuver, each enemy ship you are touching suffers one damage."

- Dauntless: "After you execute a manoeuver that causes you to overlap another ship, you may perform 1 free action. Then receieve one stree stoken."

- Daredevil: "Action, execute a white manoeuver (turn 1). Then receive a stress token. Then roll for damage, etc."

Now let's take a scenario where the Decimator is jousting :

- Decimator moves and collides with an enemy ship (or 2 if they are perfectly parallel). Inflict damage.

- Dauntless kicks in, allowing you to perform 1 free action. Use daredevil.

- Assumin another collision, you inflict a second point of damage from collision (since it's at the end of every manoeuver).

- Assign stress token from daredevil.

- Roll daredevil damage to the decimator.

- Assign 1 more stress from dauntless (for a total of 2).

Did I get everything right?

Looks right to me. Probably not a horribly broken combo given the amount of damage you'll likely inflict on yourself, and the double stress from each use... but annoying

Looks right to me. Probably not a horribly broken combo given the amount of damage you'll likely inflict on yourself, and the double stress from each use... but annoying

Which makes it interesting that Captain Yorr also has a pilot skill rating of 4, just like Oicunn. It might not be efficient, but add some anti-pursuit lasers on the decimator and it might just be a weird kind of fun to play, hehe!

You could add an engine upgrade so you don't suffer the damage from daredevil as well.

edit; I was being dumb.

sounds like a but of fun to try out =D

Give the wording of Dauntless, and given the interrupt timing (nesting) of this process does that mean (in an attempt to explain the timing):

1. An unstressed Oicunn performs an overlapping manoeuvre and slides back to touching, damaging the victim.

1.1 Dauntless (#1) gives a free action which is Daredevil.

1.1.1 Daredevil gives Oicunn a 1 turn manoeuvre (not a boost) which overlaps, slides back and victim gets second damage.

1.1.1.1 Dauntless (#2) gives a free action which is something other than Daredevil (no once per turn in the text)

1.1.1.2 Dauntless (#2) gives Oicunn his first stress.

1.1.2 Daredevil gives Oicunn his second stress.

1.2 Dauntless (#2) gives Oicunn his third stress

As much as I hate it and think the FAQ should clarify, I think the direct reading of the rules allows this.

Thoughts?

Works just fine, and I don't see why it should be "clarified". It costs 5 points to set up, 9 if you count the Engine Upgrade you'd likely take so you don't die to Daredevil. Further, unless you spend even more points on support ship(s) with Wingman you can only do it every third round and won't be doing any other actions in between. Probably more trouble than it's worth in a real game.

Take note that if you use a green maneuver to ram, you can discount 1 stress from your totals.

Assuming (1.) was a green maneuver, Just add 1.3 to your list:

1.3 After executing the maneuver and all its nested actions, it comes the check pilot stress step. Since you performed a Green maneuver, you remove one stress token from Oicunn.

It costs 5 points to set up, 9 if you count the Engine Upgrade you'd likely take so you don't die to Daredevil. Further, unless you spend even more points on support ship(s) with Wingman you can only do it every third round and won't be doing any other actions in between. Probably more trouble than it's worth in a real game.

I'm not sure what any of that has to do with clarifying and moderately complex and somewhat non-intuitive interaction. How powerful or weak an interaction is has nothing to do with whether it makes sense or not. Weird corner cases like this are exactly what should require clarifications, since one would hope that the common, non-corner case interactions are easy and clear to everyone.

Take note that if you use a green maneuver to ram, you can discount 1 stress from your totals.

Assuming (1.) was a green maneuver, Just add 1.3 to your list:

1.3 After executing the maneuver and all its nested actions, it comes the check pilot stress step. Since you performed a Green maneuver, you remove one stress token from Oicunn.

Good point. This step happens after you execute a manoeuvre. Naughty me, I always remove it before I move the ship.

Wouldn't there be an immediate stress after 3?

ACTIVATION PHASE

1. Reveal Dial

2. Set Maneuver Template

3. Execute the maneuver: an (unstressed) Oicunn performs an overlapping maneuver and slides back to touching, damaging the victim.

Sounds about right.

Wouldn't there be an immediate stress after 3?

ACTIVATION PHASE

1. Reveal Dial

2. Set Maneuver Template

3. Execute the maneuver: an (unstressed) Oicunn performs an overlapping maneuver and slides back to touching, damaging the victim.

4. The Dauntless ability gives a free action which is Daredevil.

5. The Daredevil ability gives Oicunn a 1-turn maneuver which overlaps opponent, and Oicunn slides back and opponent gets second damage.

[6. Daredevil gives Oicunn his first stress token.]

[7. Having used the Dauntless ability gives Oicunn a second stress token.]

Therefore any subsequent actions are impossible until both stress tokens are cleared.

Step 8 would then be "Check Stress" in this case. If Oicunn had executed a Green maneuver in Step 1, he could remove one stress token, but he would still have one remaining.

This is my read.

Way to lay down the law with your first post on the forums. This seems 100% right to me. However, if Yorr was nearby, it would be possible for him to absorb the DD stress, allowing Oicunn to take a 3rd action (and gain 2 stress tokens himself).

Wouldn't there be an immediate stress after 3?

Why would there be? The stress from performing a red maneuver is added to the ship in the "check pilot stress" step, just like the stress removal for performing a green maneuver occurs then. Unless I am missing something in what you are saying?

Wouldn't there be an immediate stress after 3?

ACTIVATION PHASE

1. Reveal Dial

2. Set Maneuver Template

3. Execute the maneuver: an (unstressed) Oicunn performs an overlapping maneuver and slides back to touching, damaging the victim.

4. The Dauntless ability gives a free action which is Daredevil.

5. The Daredevil ability gives Oicunn a 1-turn maneuver which overlaps opponent, and Oicunn slides back and opponent gets second damage.

[6. Daredevil gives Oicunn his first stress token.]

[7. Having used the Dauntless ability gives Oicunn a second stress token.]

Therefore any subsequent actions are impossible until both stress tokens are cleared.

Step 8 would then be "Check Stress" in this case. If Oicunn had executed a Green maneuver in Step 1, he could remove one stress token, but he would still have one remaining.

This is my read.

You could trigger Dauntless again at step 5 if you wanted to. It would add another stress token at the end though.

Wouldn't there be an immediate stress after 3?

...

Sorry. I was inferring the interrupt process that is discussed in the FAQ under Push The Limits.

Both Dauntless and Daredevil say Do <this> then take a stress. The trick is that the trigger for each occurs in the <this> part, and so the rest of the effect is resolved after the triggered effect, hence the nesting. Being a programmer, this looks to me like one subroutine calling another before returning to complete the rest of it's logic.

An alternative could have been to have an effect / action queue, instread of performing an action you queue it, and stress would prevent you from queuing any more actions, but then each effect / action in the queue is resolved completely in order. In this case I would agree the stress stops the queueing of the second free action. But X-Wing has gone for this interrupt idea rather than the queue approach.

Your interpretation might be correct though. The fact that we can have two or more different interpretations makes me feel that a FAQ update would be useful here.

For now, I would allow it, and my counter is going to be to spread my units out, and possibly offer a bait up to Oicunn but try to position him on the other side of an Asteroid. My reading is that each Manoeuvre will require a check for damage roll, and will at least deny Oicunn a shot. Meanwhile I'll try and get my other ships on his tail. In general, I try to put all my attacks against the big ship first and hope what I've got left can deal with the rest.

Or I could just take Oicunn out for a spin I supose. I'll need a really good squijgy brush for that windscreen though.

This is in he FAQ under Push the Limit. I'm not sure what is supposed to be unclear here?

This is in he FAQ under Push the Limit. I'm not sure what is supposed to be unclear here?

I'd suggest that such a fundamental mechanic should be covered under the discussion on Timing. Under the Push The Limits it is somewhat obscure.

Wouldn't there be an immediate stress after 3?

...

Sorry. I was inferring the interrupt process that is discussed in the FAQ under Push The Limits.

Both Dauntless and Daredevil say Do <this> then take a stress. The trick is that the trigger for each occurs in the <this> part, and so the rest of the effect is resolved after the triggered effect, hence the nesting. Being a programmer, this looks to me like one subroutine calling another before returning to complete the rest of it's logic.

An alternative could have been to have an effect / action queue, instread of performing an action you queue it, and stress would prevent you from queuing any more actions, but then each effect / action in the queue is resolved completely in order. In this case I would agree the stress stops the queueing of the second free action. But X-Wing has gone for this interrupt idea rather than the queue approach.

Your interpretation might be correct though. The fact that we can have two or more different interpretations makes me feel that a FAQ update would be useful here.

It works exactly like a sub-routine in that it goes off to another action/event before coming back. There are also some instances where you can trigger another action/event off of that one. You pick might up a stress token on each return, but that's the price.

I've seen examples where it's been action after action after action and ended up with three stress tokens as a result. But the nesting effect of action IS part of the game and well established, and covered in the FAQ already.

This is in he FAQ under Push the Limit. I'm not sure what is supposed to be unclear here?

I'd suggest that such a fundamental mechanic should be covered under the discussion on Timing. Under the Push The Limits it is somewhat obscure.

Heh. I'm having a "That's cute... you must be new here" moment. I mean that with a fair bit of cynicism directed at FFG, and with only good humor towards you.

This is how FFG handles the rules for X-wing. We don't get fundamental rulings - we get one-off examples that may, if we're lucky, illustrate the underlying rule well enough for us to know why something works like it does. Usually, we're left guessing based on rulings that probably (but not always) follow the rest of the rules as printed.

Wherever it happens to be presented, the rulings for cards like Push the Limit and Experimental Interface do a good job of illustrating the timing rule well enough for us to know that the timing rules are a direct subroutine system. I can live with that.

I very much dislike the FAQ entry for push the limit, the example is very ambiguous and creates more questions in my mind (I appreciate there could be further clarification in here or in Frank's emails).

It starts off talking about free actions, continues to talk about triggering off of EH (blew my mind when I realised they were refering to triggering off the "free barrel roll" and not the action itself!) doing that second action then resolving the remainder of EH, to my mind since EH has two seperate effects, the barrel roll and the removal of a target lock, it was the removal that PTL was interupting since it's a different paragraph on the card.

Obviously the concensus is that PTL interups the giving of stress and once you work out that there is only one ship in the game that can have that combination of EPT's anyway then yeah I can live with it.

My point is FFG really need to be more clear with effects and timing, AGOT became a massive mess of timing structures, I really don't want to see that happen to this game.

As far as the Decimator is concerned with it's triple actions, this doesn't really bother me, both by the rules and thematically, yep the rules work, great, and also I assume such a big ship has some crew aboard to deal with all these systems so yeah stress them all out because Oicunn is making them fly right at people

Give the wording of Dauntless, and given the interrupt timing (nesting) of this process does that mean (in an attempt to explain the timing):

1. An unstressed Oicunn performs an overlapping manoeuvre and slides back to touching, damaging the victim.

1.1 Dauntless (#1) gives a free action which is Daredevil.

1.1.1 Daredevil gives Oicunn a 1 turn manoeuvre (not a boost) which overlaps, slides back and victim gets second damage.

1.1.1.1 Dauntless (#2) gives a free action which is something other than Daredevil (no once per turn in the text)

1.1.1.2 Dauntless (#2) gives Oicunn his first stress.

1.1.2 Daredevil gives Oicunn his second stress.

1.2 Dauntless (#2) gives Oicunn his third stress

As much as I hate it and think the FAQ should clarify, I think the direct reading of the rules allows this.

Thoughts?

This, I think, is mostly correct except we need to know what maneuver Oicunn performed with the dial. If it was a green maneuver then 1 stress token would be removed during the "Check Pilot Stress" step.

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I came across this for the first time this week (I never get to play X-Wing as much as I would like). We have a big competition here this weekend (CANCON) and I expect to come up against a few of these. It will be interesting how effective they turn out to be, and whever I can counter them.

May the force be with you and long live the emperor,

Swanny.

Not bad when coupled with Captain Yorr and a Black squadron TIE with 'wingman'.

Stress all go bye bye.

..or maybe a captain kenkirk with wingman and darth?

I called the build Bumpy Doominator...