I'm more confused about the dice after watching the video than before. I still don't understand the difference.

I still don't understand the difference.

Red dice seem to be the 'best' dice. They have at least one side with 2 hits.

Blue dice seem to be 'weaker' dice, they may have fewer hits and seem to be aimed more at anti-fighter attacks.

Black dice may be weaker then blue, but they also have less range. It seems you can't use black dice at anything longer then "range 1" to use the x-wing term.

All that is said without knowing what the dice sides actually look like. But I haven't seen a red one with a <accuracy> face, or a blue die with <hit hit> on it.

Take the CR-90a vs CR-90b. The A has 2 red, 1 blue on the front. The B has 3 blue on the front. That means as I understand it, the CR-90b has shorter range in the front arc, because you can't roll blue dice at 'range 3' but the CR-90a has 2 red/1 blue so at long range it can still roll the 2 reds.

Or a VSD I vs VSD II, the I has 3 red, 3 black front, the II has 3 Red, 3 Blue. So at Long range both can shoot 3 dice, at med range the II can roll 6, but the I can only roll 3.

So I think the biggest thing is, the different dice are mostly about the range of the shot.

I still don't understand the difference.

Red dice seem to be the 'best' dice. They have at least one side with 2 hits.

Blue dice seem to be 'weaker' dice, they may have fewer hits and seem to be aimed more at anti-fighter attacks.

Black dice may be weaker then blue, but they also have less range. It seems you can't use black dice at anything longer then "range 1" to use the x-wing term.

All that is said without knowing what the dice sides actually look like. But I haven't seen a red one with a <accuracy> face, or a blue die with <hit hit> on it.

Take the CR-90a vs CR-90b. The A has 2 red, 1 blue on the front. The B has 3 blue on the front. That means as I understand it, the CR-90b has shorter range in the front arc, because you can't roll blue dice at 'range 3' but the CR-90a has 2 red/1 blue so at long range it can still roll the 2 reds.

Or a VSD I vs VSD II, the I has 3 red, 3 black front, the II has 3 Red, 3 Blue. So at Long range both can shoot 3 dice, at med range the II can roll 6, but the I can only roll 3.

So I think the biggest thing is, the different dice are mostly about the range of the shot.

This isn't necessarily right. You can tell because Luke gets a black die against Capital ships instead of red.

Red dice have more raw potential damage, but they also have chances to miss. I also don't think they have an Aim symbol, which means the damage can be halved or ignored if you don't have blue dice to back them up. Blue dice seemed to have less blanks--they were either Aims, Hits, or Crits most of the time.

Black Dice, most likely don't have any blank sides.

The closer you get, the more accurate, which totally makes sense. Red dice are obviously the most powerful weapons, but at the furthest range, when you're not rolling Blues, their damage can be easily mitigated. At medium range, their actual power comes from being rolled along side of Blue dice--blue dice cancel out the defensive maneuvers, while red dice deal the damage. But, without Blues, Reds are much less effective.

I'm more confused about the dice after watching the video than before. I still don't understand the difference.

Red dice are for attacks up to range 3 (R3), blue dice up to R2 and black for only R1. So lets take for example the VSD Class-I, it has 3 reds and 3 blacks for its front firing arc. At long and medium range(R3 and R2) you roll 3 red dice but at short range (R1) you roll a total or 6 dice (3 reds + 3 blacks)!!! Also each colored dice has different effects on it; the blue and red dice has accuracy symbols, though I assume the blue has more, while the black dice has double hits or double crit effects.

I'm more confused about the dice after watching the video than before. I still don't understand the difference.

It's basically what I called in another thread. They represent different kinds of weapons or the relative power of weapons at different ranges.

The red is the most power and has longest range, but are the least accurate (being the 'heavy' guns)

The blue are more standard laser cannons and have a medium range and are more accurate, but also have an 'accuracy' symbol that can cancel out defensive actions.

The black are the shortest ranged but are more powerful than the blue dice. This is really just an 'upgrade' to the blue dice that certain cards get.

It works as sort of a gradient scale. If a ship has 3 red dice and 3 blue dice in their forward arc, that means that they can use 3 red dice at long range, and 3 red and 3 blue at medium and close range. If, for whatever reason, you're able to use black dice as well, you can only use it at close range.

As far as i could see its another dogfight game... the maneuvers i have to plan as much as i have in X-Wing... the actions i have to plan as much as in X-Wing...

The fighting... well it might take longer but it seems the same way .... dogfight... Send my ships in and shoot...

Just bigger ships...

I did not see any kind of advanced tactical component here at all...

And please dont say that... oh you have to plan beforehand...

Blub... that i have to do that in most every other game as well if i want to win...

You don't have to plan your maneuver. Your speed is set and can't be change unless you take a command that allow it (or other way that we don't know yet). When it's is your activation, you attack, then move. The big differences here with X-Wing regarding movement is that when it is your activation, you decide where you want to go, you have a complete view of the battlefield. You don't set every ship movement prior to the activation phase, but are stuck with going at the same speed unless you change it and (unless I got this part wrong) you can't change it from more than 1 speedband. There is no way to make sharp turns like in X-Wing and you can't move 4 one turn and 1 the next. Really, they are nothing alike.

The action is where there is more planning since you must choose your action before the activation phase. Looking at it, in X-Wing you plan your movement ahead and then choose your action, if any, once you moved. In Armada it's the opposite: You plan your command ahead, sometimes up to three turn ahead and can choose your maneuver only when you activate.

For the Dogfight part, the maneuvers aren't sharp enough to be considered dogfight, but it is two game about ship battling each other so, I'm not sure what you really expected. The tactical aspect seems to be more into the command management, reasigning damage to other shield, managing fighters, range seems to play a bigger role.... and yes, also having to plan beforehand like every other tactical game.

I'm sure what we've seen so far are just the basics of Armada's gameplay. The demo doesn't even include upgrade cards and character crew cards which I'm certain will add alot of depth to the game as in X-wing, if not more, but what I've seen so far tells me that its different enough that it is its own game. I'm especially interested to see how different command values affect the performance of each ship and how they can be manipulated. Also nothing was said about what the engineering value on a ship does. Looking forward to learning more.

Considering that it has less emphasis on tactical maneuvering and more on command and systems management Armada is more a naval combat game than it is a dogfighting game, unless you somehow consider the latter as anything that involves moving spaceships that shoot at each other.

I think you replied to the wrong person here. I never said it was a dogfighting game, on the contrary...

I still don't understand the difference.

Red dice seem to be the 'best' dice. They have at least one side with 2 hits.

Blue dice seem to be 'weaker' dice, they may have fewer hits and seem to be aimed more at anti-fighter attacks.

Black dice may be weaker then blue, but they also have less range. It seems you can't use black dice at anything longer then "range 1" to use the x-wing term.

All that is said without knowing what the dice sides actually look like. But I haven't seen a red one with a <accuracy> face, or a blue die with <hit hit> on it.

Take the CR-90a vs CR-90b. The A has 2 red, 1 blue on the front. The B has 3 blue on the front. That means as I understand it, the CR-90b has shorter range in the front arc, because you can't roll blue dice at 'range 3' but the CR-90a has 2 red/1 blue so at long range it can still roll the 2 reds.

Or a VSD I vs VSD II, the I has 3 red, 3 black front, the II has 3 Red, 3 Blue. So at Long range both can shoot 3 dice, at med range the II can roll 6, but the I can only roll 3.

So I think the biggest thing is, the different dice are mostly about the range of the shot.

This isn't necessarily right. You can tell because Luke gets a black die against Capital ships instead of red.

Red dice have more raw potential damage, but they also have chances to miss. I also don't think they have an Aim symbol, which means the damage can be halved or ignored if you don't have blue dice to back them up. Blue dice seemed to have less blanks--they were either Aims, Hits, or Crits most of the time.

Black Dice, most likely don't have any blank sides.

The closer you get, the more accurate, which totally makes sense. Red dice are obviously the most powerful weapons, but at the furthest range, when you're not rolling Blues, their damage can be easily mitigated. At medium range, their actual power comes from being rolled along side of Blue dice--blue dice cancel out the defensive maneuvers, while red dice deal the damage. But, without Blues, Reds are much less effective.

I haven't thought about it that way but it makes a lot of sense. I'm really starting to love the new dice mechanics.

As far as i could see its another dogfight game... the maneuvers i have to plan as much as i have in X-Wing... the actions i have to plan as much as in X-Wing...

The fighting... well it might take longer but it seems the same way .... dogfight... Send my ships in and shoot...

Just bigger ships...

I did not see any kind of advanced tactical component here at all...

And please dont say that... oh you have to plan beforehand...

Blub... that i have to do that in most every other game as well if i want to win...

You don't have to plan your maneuver. Your speed is set and can't be change unless you take a command that allow it (or other way that we don't know yet). When it's is your activation, you attack, then move. The big differences here with X-Wing regarding movement is that when it is your activation, you decide where you want to go, you have a complete view of the battlefield. You don't set every ship movement prior to the activation phase, but are stuck with going at the same speed unless you change it and (unless I got this part wrong) you can't change it from more than 1 speedband. There is no way to make sharp turns like in X-Wing and you can't move 4 one turn and 1 the next. Really, they are nothing alike.

The action is where there is more planning since you must choose your action before the activation phase. Looking at it, in X-Wing you plan your movement ahead and then choose your action, if any, once you moved. In Armada it's the opposite: You plan your command ahead, sometimes up to three turn ahead and can choose your maneuver only when you activate.

For the Dogfight part, the maneuvers aren't sharp enough to be considered dogfight, but it is two game about ship battling each other so, I'm not sure what you really expected. The tactical aspect seems to be more into the command management, reasigning damage to other shield, managing fighters, range seems to play a bigger role.... and yes, also having to plan beforehand like every other tactical game.

I'm sure what we've seen so far are just the basics of Armada's gameplay. The demo doesn't even include upgrade cards and character crew cards which I'm certain will add alot of depth to the game as in X-wing, if not more, but what I've seen so far tells me that its different enough that it is its own game. I'm especially interested to see how different command values affect the performance of each ship and how they can be manipulated. Also nothing was said about what the engineering value on a ship does. Looking forward to learning more.

Considering that it has less emphasis on tactical maneuvering and more on command and systems management Armada is more a naval combat game than it is a dogfighting game, unless you somehow consider the latter as anything that involves moving spaceships that shoot at each other.

I think you replied to the wrong person here. I never said it was a dogfighting game, on the contrary...

Yes sorry. I was replying to Dark Pilot:)

I might have somehow expected something more like a Risk or even a Shogun (1986 Tabletop Game from MB)... including planets which we have to defend or conquer... you know...

Irgh! Looking at the first preview, I have a hard time seeing how you could have expected this kind of game. It is a miniature game after all, not a boardgame.

No wonder you are disapointed...

Also each colored dice has different effects on it; the blue and red dice has accuracy symbols, though I assume the blue has more, while the black dice has double hits or double crit effects.

That could be it. But the red dice have double hits as well.

Could create some interesting ships. Ships better at long range then short or visa versa.

But I'm not sure that black are better at close range then other dice. A VSD I has black dice and the VSD II has blue. The VSD II is 10 points more. You'd think that it would be better at every range then the VSD I would be.

But I'm not sure that black are better at close range then other dice. A VSD I has black dice and the VSD II has blue. The VSD II is 10 points more. You'd think that it would be better at every range then the VSD I would be.

Also depends on the target. Crits are misses VS squadrons. So a Hit + Crit on the Black die is only a single hit against Squadrons but a double hit against Caps.

Also depends on the target.

Still, I'd like to think that a 10 point more expensive version is going to be generally more effective.

The VSD II may be generally more effective from pure utility while the old VSD I really only outshines the newer version in close range combat. The VSD II looks like it would be able to fire more effectively at more range bands while the VSD I only maximizes its potential at range one. Not to mention the VSD II may be better equipped to defend itself against fighters or have other upgrades available.

I might have somehow expected something more like a Risk or even a Shogun (1986 Tabletop Game from MB)... including planets which we have to defend or conquer... you know...

Irgh! Looking at the first preview, I have a hard time seeing how you could have expected this kind of game. It is a miniature game after all, not a boardgame.

No wonder you are disapointed...

Well, i was not sure if they would like include Paper planets or anything...

I dunno what i was thinking to be honest... just .. something.... different....

Someone earlier said:

"I'm torn between Meh and Wow. I think this is the first time I don't know how I feel about a game." (Good words @ Ghaerdon)

At the moment im more drawn to meh...

3 hit points on a tie.... 5 on an xwing.... And howl runner buffs swarms

Good to see they're stating true to themselves!

Also depends on the target.

Still, I'd like to think that a 10 point more expensive version is going to be generally more effective.

You can squeeze more range out of the blue dice, I think that's where the advantage comes from. A VSD I is going to have to get very close before it can unleash full firepower, which is risky given the speed and manoeuvrability of smaller vessels like the Corvette.

I mean, if blacks are just more sucky blues, Luke might not be worth the extra points you pay for him when the rest of the X-wings get blues and he gets black.

Going to wait and see on this one...

Some interesting mechanics, and some we quite don't know.

• Speed not changing: This should be interesting to see how this works. It does seem to reduce the "movement" skill aspect of the game which makes X-Wing competitive and more skill based then anything else.
• Attack then move: This should be interesting, hopefully it adds enough skill to movement.

It should, because essentially it means you're setting yourself up for the next turn's shooting phase every time you move. Which means that even a Corvette with its Command 1 has to think a turn ahead. This gets even more tactical when you're flying a Command 3 ship.

I'd argue that movement in this game is tactically even more "easy to learn, hard to master" than X-wing. Sure it looks simpler on the surface, but when you realize that speeding up and slowing down might cost you several turns rather than just picking a different spin on the dial each turn, it changes a lot in tactical depth.

A VSD I is going to have to get very close before it can unleash full firepower, which is risky given the speed and manoeuvrability of smaller vessels like the Corvette.

But it also means a VSD I could do more damage at range 1 then a VSD II could do at range 1. That's my only issue. But maybe that's how it will work, it wouldn't be game breaking or anything for me. Just now how I'd do it.

Luke might not be worth the extra points you pay for him when the rest of the X-wings get blues and he gets black.

Luke also gets to ignore shields when he fires on a ship. That is IMO a pretty killer ability.

I'd argue that movement in this game is tactically even more "easy to learn, hard to master" than X-wing.

I agree, in this game you can even test your maneuver first, but since as you point out you're locked into a given speed, and that will mean you really have to think ahead, especially with the larger ships.

I just remembered something that was pointed out before that does make red and blue dice potentially more effective then red and black. Which gives the VSD II an advantage at all ranges.

Blue dice have the <accuracy> side, and I don't think black dice do. So while Black may do more raw damage you won't have blue dice stripping the target of defenses.

Red dice also have them, I believe. But it looks like they have less than blue dice.

Your red + blue shots are still potentially more accurate than red + black shots so it'll have more consistency while the latter can devastate a target at close range especially after it has spent its defense tokens.

True, but in this case, more accuracy doesn't always translate to more damage. Any blue that rolls an accuracy is one blue that doesn't roll damage. Roll accuracy on all three blue dice and you might end up with more accuracy than you can spend.

It's an interesting tactical choice. I wonder what the mathwing (mathmada?) will throw out once people get their hands on the rules and calculators.