Ok, what about Ariad Cursed Blast then?
Perform an attack targeting each Cursed hero in Ariad's line of sight. If insufficient range is rolled for any one target, the entire attack is considered a miss.
Labyrinth of Ruin - Beastmaster - "Feral Frenzy" Question
I would rule that Cursed Blast would target a Wolf, even if it has Stalker. Ariad cannot 'legally target another hero instead' in that case, because if they are a legal target, then they are already being targeted by the attack.
Charmy is correct. Don't think about Stalker too hard. Simply, all it means is, "if the overlord must choose to EITHER target the wolf OR target a different hero, he cannot choose to target the wolf INSTEAD OF the other hero."
This of course assumes that when it time to choose a target, both the hero and the wolf are valid choices to attack. The overlord is under no obligation to move to attack another hero- he is free to move a melee monster so it is only adjacent to the wolf and then attack the wolf.
Edited by ZaltyreCharmy is correct. Don't think about Stalker too hard. Simply, all it means is, "if the overlord must choose to EITHER target the wolf OR target a different hero, he cannot choose to target the wolf INSTEAD OF the other hero."
This of course assumes that when it time to choose a target, both the hero and the wolf are valid choices to attack. The overlord is under no obligation to move to attack another hero- he is free to move a melee monster so it is only adjacent to the wolf and then attack the wolf.
Yes, otherwise the wolf would be immortal (aside from AoE attacks). The OL is in that case forced to defeat other targets first so that the wolf is the only attackable figure on the map. Which would be broken for obvious reasons.
Edited by Ceasarsalad101Well this doesn't really make much sence cause wolf presence only makes Ariad more powerfull. He would be cursed 100% persent and then would just add yellow dice to Ariad blast.
Well this doesn't really make much sence cause wolf presence only makes Ariad more powerfull. He would be cursed 100% persent and then would just add yellow dice to Ariad blast.
Remember that if the beastmaster uses an action to place the wolf, the wolf that gets placed will always be a fresh one- no damage, no conditions. It costs an action, but it saves you from having a walking powerup for Ariad. Also, consider that Ariad is one of the few monsters who can actually benefit from the presence of additional enemy figures around her. In many other cases, the presence of the wolf means danger for monsters and benefits for the heroes (such as defense dice or a literal meat shield.)
Ariad's "corrupted" benefit also applies to image tokens, the reanimate, or brightblaze. All of these things usually help the heroes by their presence, but Ariad is unique in her ability to turn that to her advantage- it's part of what makes her a threatening lieutenant.
Edited by ZaltyreQuestion
Beastmaster, Stalker ability. It states that "A monster cannot declare your Wolf as the target of an attack if it could legally target a hero figure instead." I wonder how it works with multitarget attacks like Merriod Flail or Ariad Cursed Blast.
Answer
If the monster can legally target any target other than the wolf, then each target of the multi target attack must be another target.
Was that the whole response? From what you posted I think what is being said is the wolfis not targeted by curse blast.
If so, does that mean a merriod CANNOT flail a hero and the wolf if those are the only two targets in range?
Edited by ZaltyreWas that the whole response? From what you posted I think what is being said is the wolfis not targeted by curse blast.
If so, does that mean a merriod CANNOT flail a hero and the wolf if those are the only two targets in range?
Yeap, that was whole response. I still have doubts about Merriod, so I guess I'll ask again. As for Cursed Blast, it looks like Wolf can evade it, if someone else is cursed.
It answers the question right?
Flail on 1 hero + wolf, select target 1: is there legal target other than the wolf? Yes, hero becomes that target. Target 2: is there a legal target other than the wolf? No, wolf becomes 2nd target
Flail on 2 heroes + wolf, select target 1: is there legal target other than the wolf? Yes, hero becomes that target. Target 2: is there a legal target other than the wolf? Yes, other hero becomes 2nd target, wolf stays safe
Flail on 3 heroes + wolf, .... (wolf stays safe)
-repeat
If an attack has a infinite number of possible targets, then the last target will always turn out to be the wolf, because at some point the legal 'other targets' run out, but the attack is still in progress since it has no limit to the amount of targets.
(At least that is how I see it)
Edited by Atom4geVampireIf an attack has a infinite number of possible targets, then the last target will always turn out to be the wolf, because at some point the legal 'other targets' run out, but the attack is still in progress since it has no limit to the amount of targets.
(At least that is how I see it)
Right. What you wrote, I take to mean "keep selecring targets. If you run out of heroes and still have targets to select, select the wolf." Therefore, curse blast can target a bunch of heroes and the wolf.
The response sounds to me like "in a multi target attack, do not select the wolf" (each target must be another target), which makes me question whether Flail ever targets the wolf. Now sure- the flail attack is ONLY multi target if the wolf is included when 1 hero and 1 wolf are nearby- so maybe that is a bad example.
What about Elemental's "Fire"? 2 heroes and the wolf are adjacent to the elemental. Hero/hero/wolf, or hero/hero is the target? Multi-target either way. I'd think the wolf is definitely targeted- does that conflict with the rules response?
Edited by Zaltyre
To me it seems that if a monster occupies a space, and from that space declares an attack, can it target something that is not the wolf? Yes-> wolf is happy! No -> Wolf dies, beastmaster sad.
That means that if the wolf goes beyond the front line, Stalker is pretty much useless because a monster can always position itself in a way that it can only target the wolf when declaring an attack.
My view on the mentioned examples:
If a wolf is next to an elemental that uses 'fire' -> dead, along with every other hero adjacent to the elemental
with 1 other hero next to a master merriod ->dead
with 2 other heroes next to a master merriod -> alive
ancient curse + cursed blast-> wolf fails the test, free yellow die for Ariad-> wolf and heroes are superdead
movement based attacks like cry havoc-> target every figure after the movement -> one dead wolf
fire breath-> not the target, only affected-> dead
I'm in agreement. I think the clearer way to say it is "can the monster exhaust its target options and leave the wolf untargeted?. If so, then the wolf is happy."
Target each figure in LOS...
Target each figure within X spaces...
in my mind will ALWAYS include the wolf, if possible- because you can always choose another target.
The response is just badly worded imo. Maybe Kara didn't realize that the emphasis of the questions was really about when/if the wolf gets attacked. In my opinion (though english is not my first language) my way of looking at it, which most here seem to share, does not conflict with the wording.
I think this card's rule is really for single target attacks, so the monster has to attack a hero if available.
It does not protect the wolf from multi attacks, except for flail, but in that case, 2 heroes must be adjacent. Any other attack that, like you also state, targets each figure, is with the wolf included.
Edited by Atom4geVampireLooking back at the question and answer, I think you may have a real point about the main issue not being addressed directly (by accident, of course).
Well, I asked again. As soon as I get new answer I'll post it here
Well, you were right all along!
Q:
Would wolf be a valid target in any of these examples?4. Ariad use Cursed blast (wolf and 1 hero in her LOS are cursed)3. Merriod has 2 heroes and a wolf around him2. Merriod has 1 hero and a wolf around him.1. Elemental use Fire while being adjasent to 2 hero and a wolf.Well, it is still not really clear for me how multitarget attack works.Here some examples.
A:
If a multitarget attack has a specific number of targets (like Flail) if that specific number can be fulfilled by heroes instead of the wolf, then it must target heroes. If it runs out of heroes to target and may still target other figures, then the wolf could be targeted as well. If, like Fire or Cursed Blast, it simply targets as many legal targets as possible, then it targets any heroes and the wolf. So in your examples:
1) The 2 heroes and the wolf are targeted.2) The hero and the wolf can be targeted if using Flail. If the merriod attacked without Flail, the hero must be targeted.3) If using Flail, the merriod must target the 2 heroes. If the merriod attacks without Flail, 1 of the 2 heroes must be targeted.4) The wolf and 1 hero are targeted.
I still don't like it. I agree that Ariad is good against other classes with summons but beastmaster is class from LoR expansion itself and it looks weird to make him lesser choice for this campaign.
I disagree that the class is a weak pick. I'll grant that the strategy of leaving the wolf on the map in LOS of Ariad is a bad choice. However, there are plenty of other ways that the wolf can be used. After being summoned, "shadow hunter" can be used to discard the wolf for bunches of damage.
I want to clarify something...
For Savagery about the text:
"...Each time your Wolf performs an attack that targets a monster adjacent to a hero figure, your Wolf may add 1 additional green power die to its attack pool. "
If wolf can be fulfill requirement of this class skill by itself,
What different to discribe with "When your Wolf attack, add a green power dice to attack pool?"
I consider that they have some different .
In other words, it seems to be more reasonable to satisfy its requirement by another hero figure.
I want to clarify something...For Savagery about the text:"...Each time your Wolf performs an attack that targets a monster adjacent to a hero figure, your Wolf may add 1 additional green power die to its attack pool. "If wolf can be fulfill requirement of this class skill by itself,What different to discribe with "When your Wolf attack, add a green power dice to attack pool?"I consider that they have some different .In other words, it seems to be more reasonable to satisfy its requirement by another hero figure.
Rules Question:
Is the condition for the beastmaster skill "savagery" fulfilled when the wolf is the only figure adjacent to the target (since he is himself both the wolf and a hero figure?) He is also a hero attacking a monster adjacent to the wolf in this case- would he get 2 green dice on all attacks? Thanks!
Answer:
Savagery only gives the wolf 1 green die, no matter the circumstances. Though I generally prefer rules as written, in this case the intent of the card has been set as precedent.
In other words, it looks like the text on the card was intended to say "a hero other than your Wolf". It's intended function appears to be consistent with:
"Each time a hero other than your Wolf performs an attack that targets a monster adjacent to your Wolf, that hero may add 1 additional green power die to his attack pool. Each time your Wolf performs an attack that targets a monster adjacent to a hero other than your Wolf, your Wolf may add 1 additional green power die to his attack pool."
It's a mouthful. You can't just say "another hero" because since it's the beastmaster's card (not the Wolf's) "another hero" would mean "a hero other than the beastmaster".
Edited by Zaltyre@Zaltyre: Just out of curiosity: What is the argument that for the second part of Savagery the wolf does not count as a hero figure and thus does not gain an additional attack die if he is the only hero figure adjacent to the target? The answer by FFG can be definitely interpreted that way, however, it could also just mean that the wolf does not get a 2nd green die if there is another hero adjacent to the targeted monster.
I guess, I am just missing something here. Please enlighten me
.
It's just an assumption that the skill was written reflexively. It's coverering two sides of the same situation, not 2 situations. That is, let's imagine their are only 2 heroes total (one of them the wolf) we'll call A and B. I assume the card is trying to say, "If A attacks a monster adjacent to B, he gets a green die. Likewise, if B attacks a monster adjacent to A, he gets a green die." I think that it it less likely it was written to say, "If A attacks a monster adjacent to B he gets a green die. If B attacks a monster adjacent to A or B he gets a green die."
I think this also because the wolf is melee he is ALWAYS attacking a monster adjacent to himself. If the second thing were the intention, it should have just said, The wolf adds a green die to his attack pool."
I agree with this assumption. However, I would have liked FFG to give a unambigious answer.