I've seen a nice collection of homebrew here on the forums (I know I'm guilty of it as well with my two creation threads), but I notice there's always a difference between the basics (like what I throw together) and something that looks professionally done.

That said, does anyone have some pointers on how to make things appear worthwhile to keep or remain interesting to players that will be using and reviewing it? I'd like to do something better than just lists of ships and associated ruled, but I'm not certain the best way to go about it.

I'm sure I'm not the only one, so if any of the old hands would like to shed some light as to how it's done or offer pointers, I'd greatly appreciate it!

I think this is a good topic, since I've seen a lot of different formats for user-created content. Some of it is basically just a Word doc or spreadsheet, then you have PDFs that follow their own kind of standards for formatting and what certain styles represent, and then you have a handful that look like FFG themselves could have made. It would be nice to see some consistency, but it might be tough when some of the more advanced styles require time, effort, know-how, and access to programs some people just don't have.

I think this is a good topic, since I've seen a lot of different formats for user-created content. Some of it is basically just a Word doc or spreadsheet, then you have PDFs that follow their own kind of standards for formatting and what certain styles represent, and then you have a handful that look like FFG themselves could have made. It would be nice to see some consistency, but it might be tough when some of the more advanced styles require time, effort, know-how, and access to programs some people just don't have.

Exactly! Even so, it'd be nice to see what sort of programs are used, what sort of skills are required, if templates are used, etc.

I'm guilty of the wall of text (with a few pictures) being saved as a PDF, but I'd love to figure out the best way to make it look "presentable" to everyone (maybe someone will actually comment on my ships if I were to do that!).

Making a good document is a bit of a combo between your ability (artistry & experience) and your means (software and other tools). But as far as tools go, I've seen the best work done on Adobe Creative Suite. Unfortunately for those not already in the graphic design business, Adobe CS is exhorbitantly expensive.

There's Inkscape and GIMP, which are two nice open-source editing programs, but each comes with its own set of limitations and learning curve.

MS Publisher and Word are a bit more common on current PCs, so if you have either of those, they will do a decent job. Word even has some more-than-basic image editing capabilities, which can be nice.

A lot of "good document" rules come down to usage of fonts and images: make sure your fonts 1) look good and 2) compliment each other, and make sure your images aren't eyesores. Better no image at all than a poor-quality image. Also, a good document should be clean, uncluttered. Beyond that, attractive use of margins, columns, line breaks, words & verbiage, syntax, and page count can all contribute to the quality of the document. Take note of good design ideas when you see them, and then see if you can incorporate those ideas into your work.

Beyond that, attractive use of margins, columns, line breaks, words & verbiage, syntax, and page count can all contribute to the quality of the document. Take note of good design ideas when you see them, and then see if you can incorporate those ideas into your work.

Please understand that this is not aimed at you personally, I’m speaking from a general perspective.

However, as someone who doesn’t have any significant artistic talent, this sounds kind of like the advice to take a piece of marble and carve away all the stuff that doesn’t look like the statue of David, and then you’re done.

I’m not bitter or jealous about this issue, that’s just kind of the way it sounds to me.

I have a certain amount of OCD that I exhibit when trying to make things look nice, and a certain amount of technical skill with regards to graphics and presentation programs, but there’s no way in ${DEITY}’s Cold Black Universe that I’m going to ever produce anything that looks like it could have come from FFG themselves.

I’m just not that good of an artist.

So, I really do appreciate all the hard work that goes into making good-looking material, but that’s just not me.

There's always collaboration. There are a few people on these boards that have experience and are skilled at producing PDFs of varying levels of quality. Not everyone is inclined to or have the time to learn a new piece of software - as is apparent in the Unity 3D thread too. As a bloody socialist of communist Norway that I am, I believe in community efforts. I'm sure if asked, a lot of people with the PDF-know-how wouldn't mind helping other productive individuals.

The various ways you go, be it Adobe CS, open source or MS, will yield different results. As I've become painfully aware of.
Going Adobe is expensive, unless you have inclinations that are less than legal... I wouldn't recommend or condone that, the results are pretty though and it's not too hard to learn the basics. Going the MS route isn't something I'd recommend, as it looks easy and nice, that is until you produce the PDF. It's not worth the hassle, unless you want a minimalist approach without too much pictures or graphics, and mainly just colours. The open source route has various alternatives, as Awayputurwpn mentions there's: Inkscape and GIMP, additionally you can use OpenOffice/LibreOffice Draw, which lets you do some page making and stuff like that, it's not brilliant, but definitely useful and - as I recall - the results are better than MS Publisher, I believe. There's also Scribus which I used for a while, until I needed tables for weapons and armour... for some reason it was unable to make that in a meaningful and effective manner, so I had to switch software (again) - it might have been fixed now, it's been a while and probably a few updates since I used it. So unless tables are essential I'd recommend it, it's not too hard to learn and it yields pretty results, and it's free.

There's a short list of open source alternatives here, and a longer list of other alternatives here, both free and for a price.

Even MS Word can make a decent writeup with a bit of understanding. Fonts are available that can be added to your system to mimic a look for whatever RPG you're publishing towards. There are free PDF drivers for turning anything into a PDF by "printing" it through a print driver (CutePDF - http://www.cutepdf.com/).

For me, the big issue with any material is the organization. Artwork, or monster stats that aren't in an easy to find place (buried in the text or wrong section of the document), maps that just seem to spring up pages after they would have been useful to have. Take advantage of things like referencing. Word can reference the location of something and better yet, those references can be dynamically updated as things are moved around, so less worry about "see page XXX" issues.

Find a style that works well (or find a style guide for the RPG you're writing for if you want to look like the others). It helps with organization and the aforementioned referencing.

If you're going to use images, then be sure you have the rights to use them if you share the document online. Just because you find the art online doesn't mean it is yours to do with what you will.

Beyond that, attractive use of margins, columns, line breaks, words & verbiage, syntax, and page count can all contribute to the quality of the document. Take note of good design ideas when you see them, and then see if you can incorporate those ideas into your work.

Please understand that this is not aimed at you personally, I’m speaking from a general perspective.

However, as someone who doesn’t have any significant artistic talent, this sounds kind of like the advice to take a piece of marble and carve away all the stuff that doesn’t look like the statue of David, and then you’re done.

Yeah...I did try to qualify what I said with my opening sentence

Making a good document is a bit of a combo between your ability (artistry & experience) and your means (software and other tools).

Seriously though, IMO artistic ability can be learned. Some are certainly more naturally adept at being artistic, but if one practices, one will get better (barring a learning disability). Even the artistically inclined student might look at a piece he or she made 10 years ago and think, "I did that? That's terrible!"

To quote a favourite song:

In one word he told me secret of success in mathematics:
Plagiarize!

Plagiarize,
Let no one else's work evade your eyes,
Remember why the good lord made your eyes,
So don't shade your eyes,
But plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize -
Only be sure always to call it please 'research'.

It's actually a song about mathematician Nikolai Lobachevsky by satirist Tom Lehrer, but I feel the "argument" can be applied to any field. Perhaps particularly fan made stuff for RPGs and the like...

What I guess I'm getting at is: look at what is already published, either officially and/or by other fans, and then basically copy the style you like in your own way, either simplify it (like I prefer) or make it identical (which is risky, and in poor spirit I think) or make it even more detailed, nicer, more beautiful - if you have the time, skill and desire (which I don't have).

Beyond that, attractive use of margins, columns, line breaks, words & verbiage, syntax, and page count can all contribute to the quality of the document.

I have to comment here, and I don't want to single out awayputurwpn (because their posts are always high-quality), but I've seen this like, four times in the past week. 'Verbiage' doesn't just mean 'choice of words' or whatever people are using it for. Verbiage means (from a Google search): "speech or writing that uses too many words or excessively technical expressions."

Verbiage is to be avoided, especially when writing RPG supplements.

Does anyone know what font is closest (or identical!) to that used in the FFG books?

Seriously though, IMO artistic ability can be learned. Some are certainly more naturally adept at being artistic, but if one practices, one will get better (barring a learning disability). Even the artistically inclined student might look at a piece he or she made 10 years ago and think, "I did that? That's terrible!"

My wife (who is a graphic designer) keeps telling me that, but my stick figures say otherwise.

I have to comment here, and I don't want to single out awayputurwpn (because their posts are always high-quality), but I've seen this like, four times in the past week. 'Verbiage' doesn't just mean 'choice of words' or whatever people are using it for. Verbiage means (from a Google search): "speech or writing that uses too many words or excessively technical expressions."

Verbiage is to be avoided, especially when writing RPG supplements.

Also I was using verbiage in another, less-commonly-used sense...that of "diction." Here http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/verbiage

But to the point, yes, in RPG supplement writing (as in so many other areas of life), "less is more."

Ugh, shows what I know (or how far down I read a dictionary entry). Parting shot: by either definition, 'verbiage' is verbiage by the first definition.

Also, sorry to the OP for derailing.

To me.. saying to use a certain list of programs doesn't help. I have adobe acrobat pro, and couldn't even modify the existing official FFG Vehicle sheets without ending up with trash. I used to use Paint.net then gave up when I found out it's limits, now I am having to learn how to use GIMP, and figure out how to make a decent background similar to FFG, but all I end up with is flustration.

I had a hard enough time making a simple fracking table on obsidian portal

Thanks for the input, everyone!

awayputurwpn, I am one of those schmucks that has the inability to create anything of aesthetic beauty. Not from lack of trying, mind you, but when I was told by art teachers in college (for gen-ed credits, mind you) that I should not be trusted with coloring or drawing materials (including computers), I think my talents lie elsewhere.

Granted, my designs are the stuff of nightmares for artists, but I've realized that my talents reside with writing, editing, and statting (as it obvious with being a forever GM and my plethora of stats in this forum).

Jegergryte, combining talents is always a great thing to do! Shy of doing an open call, do you have any suggestions as to the best way to ask people to volunteer their time for such a project? I know time is valuable (and I'm realizing that more and more as my ship statting keeps slowing down due to the real world getting in the way), and I don't want to seem like I'm mooching, ya know?

I've tried open calls, it took a while, but in the end I got some art and help with editing and proof reading. Contacting people you know can do it - from stuff they've presented to and shared with the community - directly is one way, probably the easiest and fastest.

As far as putting things into a PDF, I could probably help out. It's been a while since I did such work - the last version of Cartol's Emporium was released quite a while ago - I was never a wizard or anything to start with mind you. Although I had some ideas at the end of that project about making stuff more effective, but it got lost in thesis writing and research project, but if there's no immediate deadline, I could probably help you out, starting sometime next week at the earliest.

It depends a bit on the nature of the "pretty"-level you want, amount of text, images and stuff like that.

I've tried open calls, it took a while, but in the end I got some art and help with editing and proof reading. Contacting people you know can do it - from stuff they've presented to and shared with the community - directly is one way, probably the easiest and fastest.

As far as putting things into a PDF, I could probably help out. It's been a while since I did such work - the last version of Cartol's Emporium was released quite a while ago - I was never a wizard or anything to start with mind you. Although I had some ideas at the end of that project about making stuff more effective, but it got lost in thesis writing and research project, but if there's no immediate deadline, I could probably help you out, starting sometime next week at the earliest.

It depends a bit on the nature of the "pretty"-level you want, amount of text, images and stuff like that.

Open calls will probably be best, as I tend to lose track as to who's working on what (and if things have that "finished" look, was it done by them or as a group project).

As for my projects (i.e. my starship yards), I can turn them into PDFs, but they are nothing more than stat blocks and images from Wookieepedia. I'd love to convert the whole lot into individual character sheets, but that's a skill I'm lacking in.

Regardless, I'll need to make a few revisions to some of my stats (as official rulings have been released), so I'm not in any sort of rush to get things done. I just wanted to know what sort of suggestions could be made and what type of skills and programs were needed!

You may find this page helpful, if you are looking for layout tips. http://desktoppub.about.com/od/layout/tp/composition.htm

It gives some solid advice that isn't program specific and doesn't require advance knowledge or skills to put to use.

I completely agree. A nice looking, polished document comes off far more respectable than a Word doc or a collection of text from a Wiki. It also makes it easier to archive and more professional looking when you print it. I came to this conclusion some years ago and never looked back.

The first thing to understand is the difference between a word processor, layout desktop publishing software, and graphics software. Microsoft Word is not layout desktop software; it is a word processor. Layout Desktop publishing software is meant for doing document layouts (what you want to be doing). Graphics software can do it, since it follows many of the same principles, but it's not the same. But likewise, layout desktop publishing software isn't a word processor, so you'll want to write up anything you have to write before you start doing layout work.

With regards to software, honestly, skill comes from doing it. I bought Adobe Master Collection a few years ago from my school and started using InDesign. I just looked up articled on document layout and tried reproducing game layouts for documents like settlement generators and character sheets. InDesign (and I imagine other software) isn't hard to use once you start using it. You just have to start using it. I really can't explain it.

From a more... productive stand point, when making any kind of fan supplement, you want to decide the theme of the document you are working on. Are you making a collection of starships? Are you making a setting books? A whole supplement? From there, you want to include all of the preambles and additional description material that you would expect to see in any gaming supplement. Even if it is just a single topic item, like a list of plot hooks or small article, you want to follow the normal writing stuff you learned about in school (introduction, body, conclusion) rather than just put what you are writing on paper. So, for example, if you are making a list of starships, you could frame the document as an inventory list or advertisement from an Outer Rim shipyard instead of just having a list of ship stats. If you are making a supplement with a collection of rules and materials, you will want to find a way to tie it all together and flow from one topic to another.

As an aside, I'd be interested in helping with any projects anyone needs help with, time permitting. As I mentioned, I own Adobe Master Collection, so I can help with document layout.

*Edit because knasserII reminded what term I should have been using (desktop publishing).

Beyond that, attractive use of margins, columns, line breaks, words & verbiage, syntax, and page count can all contribute to the quality of the document. Take note of good design ideas when you see them, and then see if you can incorporate those ideas into your work.

Please understand that this is not aimed at you personally, I’m speaking from a general perspective.

However, as someone who doesn’t have any significant artistic talent, this sounds kind of like the advice to take a piece of marble and carve away all the stuff that doesn’t look like the statue of David, and then you’re done.

I’m not bitter or jealous about this issue, that’s just kind of the way it sounds to me.

I have a certain amount of OCD that I exhibit when trying to make things look nice, and a certain amount of technical skill with regards to graphics and presentation programs, but there’s no way in ${DEITY}’s Cold Black Universe that I’m going to ever produce anything that looks like it could have come from FFG themselves.

I’m just not that good of an artist.

So, I really do appreciate all the hard work that goes into making good-looking material, but that’s just not me.

Find something that looks good and copy it. Adjust margins and column breaks to the same sizes, use similar sized and looking fonts. Basically follow a professional's design. If yours looks shoddy at the end of this and theirs still looks good, find what you haven't copied and copy some more.

Regarding the mentions of GIMP and Inkscape earlier - both of these are excellent software but they're graphics programs, not layout programs. You want a layout program. You should see if you have access to Microsoft Publisher as this is friendly and reasonably capable. If not, perhaps grab Scribus, though you'll need to read the manual - you wont be able to just jump in with that. The latest Word is even pretty good letting you adjust most things. It's obviously not proper Desktop Publishing software but you can make some very professional looking results with it. They do a cheap subscription if you don't have it / want to buy it. Same for Publisher, actually.

But anyway, copy someone else's and if you don't have access to Adobe CC, MS Publisher or Word, grab Scribus as it's free.

Hope that helps.

Desktop publishing software. That's the word I was looking for last night. Thanks, knasserII.