as an adamant starcraft player and other odds and ends rts games over the years that have been major let downs, i find the odds of a third faction being very unlikely because the more factions there are the harder it is to balance if any of you played the wizards minis game youd recognize this trait from there as well. Starcraft is endlessly changing to keep their factions even and even then its hard its more of a rock, paper, scissors game and that's a terrible complex to add to whats supposed to be a two player game because then your at risk of picking paper and matching with scissors purely by chance. anyone else share this opinion?

No.

I'm more opposed to the third faction because that's an entire new faction I have to pay for.

Starcraft with its huge tournament scene and large purses is different than a miniatures game.

Just look at Warmahordes, 40K, Fantasy, etc.

It's a lot easier to patch and balance a digital game as well.

I don't think a third faction is likely. I'm hopeful that we'll see more mercenaries, bounty hunters and the like, but I'm pretty sure they're going to be assigned to the Rebels or Imperials. Some truly faction-flexible units would be neat, and the fluff supports that sort of thing with ARC-170s.

anyone else share this opinion?

Since a third faction could easily have game elements that don't interact strongly with the other two factions, the number of interactions is an exponential function of the number of game elements, and the number of interactions is what makes balance difficult, I think your argument has some serious flaws.

idk i just see major balance issues coming forward with a new faction. as is there are people complaining one side or the other has to many advantages at any given release plus with there not being one already out they would have to produce basically a starter just for the new faction which i find as another reason they arent likely to do it

As far as I can tell, game balance is not the number one thing, they seem to be pushing into EU iconic ships. The outrider being a key example. There were tons of ships that don't fit the imperial/rebel banner that would work. Just from a marketing perspective they would be a fool not to create the ships.

anyone else share this opinion?

Since a third faction could easily have game elements that don't interact strongly with the other two factions, the number of interactions is an exponential function of the number of game elements, and the number of interactions is what makes balance difficult, I think your argument has some serious flaws.

such as? i'm honestly curious this is just my personal opinion based off of what i've seen in multi-faction games.

The outrider being a key example. There were tons of ships that don't fit the imperial/rebel banner that would work.

Sure, but I think we have some examples of pilots that could have been been placed in an independent/third faction but weren't: all of the Firespray-31 pilots and the Outer Rim Smuggler.

I think the flaw in your logic is that you think a 3rd Faction is unlikely because it is hard to balance.

Some companies will release additional factions with little or no consideration to balance.

I believe Fantasy Flight from what I've seen, tries to keep things balanced. And just because something is hard, does not mean they will not do it. They have play testers and designers and they have Excel. If they stick to two factions, it won't be because they can't balance it with a 3rd or a 4th or more.

If they don't do a 3rd Faction, it'll be because they don't see a market for it. Or the backlash of a 3rd Faction no matter how balanced, will cause too much attrition to their current customer base. Or the designers long term vision of the game only involves 2 Factions.

But it won't be because they can't balance 3rd faction.

Jabba's sail barge. 2 energy. 0 attack. 8 hull 0 shield. 25 points.

Starcraft with its huge tournament scene and large purses is different than a miniatures game.

Redbull Battlegrounds! 19 August! So excited. #ahem #sorry

The only people who freak out about "off balance" and "over powered" typically do so well before any new ship is actually released. It's typically being done in an information vaccuum with only one or two bits of information announced. As each progressive wave comes out, the depth of playtesting that FFG must do is fairly obvious. I don't find any of the releases to date to be off balance at all. A change in strategy and tactics is often required, and this alone will cause a number of players to cry foul, but that doesn't mean it's off balance, just different.

Scyk fighter is going to be OP! Calling it now!

Oh and wave 6, seriously wtf were they smoking! Wait till you see the Ewok/Gungan cruiser they are putting into play as a neutral faction. It fires redwood logs with bombas on it. Its muy muy boombastic telly-fantastik touch me on me back, she say I'm Mr. Ro... mantic call me fantastic

Woah I just went full Shaggy there! Never go full Shaggy.

anyone else share this opinion?

Since a third faction could easily have game elements that don't interact strongly with the other two factions, the number of interactions is an exponential function of the number of game elements, and the number of interactions is what makes balance difficult, I think your argument has some serious flaws.

Are you suggesting that a third faction could have mostly all upgrade cards that say "This Faction Only", therefore they wouldn't be interacting with the other factions?

Or am I missing your meaning completely.

There's only one way I could possibly countenance a third faction, and that's if FFG makes a completely different game ("Star Wars: Pirates Miniatures Game," or something to that effect) that, as an optional rule, permits players to use their X-Wing models in that game as well.

It doesn't have to be a third faction. You could easily have neutral ships that can be played with either faction.

The WonderWAAAGH lift up His countenance on you, And give you peace.

I want to see a Guardians of the Galaxy vs Xwing cross over. There is a thread about formation flying hate, to that I present to you, the Nova Corps Flying Net Formation of Capital Ship Sorta Stopping Doom!

Since a third faction could easily have game elements that don't interact strongly with the other two factions, the number of interactions is an exponential function of the number of game elements, and the number of interactions is what makes balance difficult, I think your argument has some serious flaws.

such as? i'm honestly curious this is just my personal opinion based off of what i've seen in multi-faction games.

...I named three of them. Suppose each faction has E1 ships and E2 upgrades, where any one ship can be combined with any upgrade (and only one upgrade). That means there are E1*E2 interactions to consider between game elements in that faction; likewise, there are R1*R2 interactions for the Rebellion.

If you add N1 new ships and N2 new upgrades to each faction, then the Empire now has (E1+N1)*(E2+N2) = E1*E2 + E1*N2 + E2*N1 + N1*N2 upgrades to consider--that is, the number of new interactions to examine has increased exponentially.

But now suppose you spread those game elements over three factions, instead of two. N1 and N2 are both smaller, which means the product N1*N2 is much smaller. There are fewer new game interactions to look at, so your designers don't have to spread themselves as thinly, and you can playtest more thoroughly.

Of course it's not that simple even in X-wing, but the principle holds. There are a lot more ways for three factions to interact with one another than two, but we already have a game where every combination of game elements has to fairly compete against any other legal combination of game elements--so that doesn't change, and the number of overall interactions could actually be decreased by putting them into faction "silos".

I don't think the game needs a new faction, but I don't buy the argument that they can't or won't do it because it couldn't be balanced effectively.

Are you suggesting that a third faction could have mostly all upgrade cards that say "This Faction Only", therefore they wouldn't be interacting with the other factions?

It wouldn't need to be all or even most upgrades. Faction-exclusive ships alone would do it, with a few "Hutt Cartel only" upgrades scattered around--just like we get with Rebels and Empire now.

as is there are people complaining one side or the other has to many advantages at any given release

All that said, I also don't think they are going to do a 3rd faction, at least not anytime soon. But not because they are incapable of doing it in a good and balanced way, just it doesn't seem to be how they are approaching the design of the game.

A third faction has four waves to catch up on. If there is to be a third faction it'd be neutral ships I'll bet.

as an adamant starcraft player and other odds and ends rts games over the years that have been major let downs, i find the odds of a third faction being very unlikely because the more factions there are the harder it is to balance if any of you played the wizards minis game youd recognize this trait from there as well. Starcraft is endlessly changing to keep their factions even and even then its hard its more of a rock, paper, scissors game and that's a terrible complex to add to whats supposed to be a two player game because then your at risk of picking paper and matching with scissors purely by chance. anyone else share this opinion?

The same argument could be made for adding any new ships to the game. Actually, this argument IS made anytime new ships are added to the game.

A third faction has four waves to catch up on. If there is to be a third faction it'd be neutral ships I'll bet.

New factions don't need to have the same number of ships as other factions, right out of the gate. Warmachine just added Convergence as a faction last year (after that game and the 10 other factions existing and expanding for 5+ years). Convergence is smaller than most of the other factions, but is very popular.

Good models, with fun and unique rules can attract players even if they lack alot of choices right away. Qaulity over quantity if you will.

Better check out this thread!!! Sightings of a third faction!

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/113160-being-trolled-by-geordan-builder-starviper-expansion/