Wait... why is Ribann still here? Didn't he already tell us he was done? I'm having deja vu, again.

The only way he is going to reach your post count is by posting...

The only way he is going to reach your post count is by posting...

Everyone wants to be like me. It's true.

This thread has explained everything after reading other posts by Ribann. He/she is apparently 12 years old (or has the mentality of a 12 year old). You are wasting your time trying to talk reasonably to someone lacking any maturity.

Proceed with childish insult...naynaynaynaynay

I'm 12 years old and what is this?

It looks like someone observing that you act like a 12 year old, which isn't terribly far off the mark. The fact that you have to ask this question makes me wonder about your reading level, underscoring his point.

Okay, so let's try to kick it up a notch. Let me pose a few ideas and let you guys take those apart:

1) The more skilled you are, the less the dice will matter in your games. That's because you will factor in the balance of probabilities.

2) The more risk-prone you are, the more dice will matter in your games. You're doing it to yourself; don't blame the Dice Gods for being the Dice Gods.

3) The more dice you roll, the less they will matter. (Regression toward the mean)

When I grow up I want to be a fire truck

Just 2 hits on just 5 blanks? What are you complaining about? Talk to me when you've had 4 crits thrown against your 6 blank evades and drew 3 direct hits (for a grand total of 7 damage on a 4v6 attack with a focus on the defense).

Yes that has happened to me.

You will not roll enough dice in your lifetime to equal the statistical expected values.

I'm 12 years old and what is this?

It looks like someone observing that you act like a 12 year old, which isn't terribly far off the mark. The fact that you have to ask this question makes me wonder about your reading level, underscoring his point.

What does this add to the conversation? Did you somehow improve the community by making that remark? Does the community feel enriched after having read that remark?

Let's have more tack and not turn down this road please.

Wait Ribann started one of these threads again?

I'm 12 years old and what is this?

It looks like someone observing that you act like a 12 year old, which isn't terribly far off the mark. The fact that you have to ask this question makes me wonder about your reading level, underscoring his point.

What does this add to the conversation? Did you somehow improve the community by making that remark? Does the community feel enriched after having read that remark?

Let's have more tack and not turn down this road please.

Talk to me when you've had 4 crits thrown against your 6 blank evades and drew 3 direct hits (for a grand total of 7 damage on a 4v6 attack with a focus on the defense). Yes that has happened to me.

Dude, you are making that up. Show me video footage and I'll believe you, otherwise stop making up crap.

Hmmmmmm.......

I'm 12 years old and what is this?

It looks like someone observing that you act like a 12 year old, which isn't terribly far off the mark. The fact that you have to ask this question makes me wonder about your reading level, underscoring his point.

What does this add to the conversation? Did you somehow improve the community by making that remark? Does the community feel enriched after having read that remark?

Let's have more tack and not turn down this road please.

Wait, was this directed at me? I'm just the middle man in the most recent exchange. Besides, what's my impetus for responding in a meaningful manner to a troll?

My reaction when i saw this thread popping again.

So I count 4 posts after mine that are neither meaningful or helpful.

Now that's a fifth.

So I count 4 posts after mine that are neither meaningful or helpful.

Sometimes correlation is not the same as causation, but sometimes it's a **** fine indicator.

You will not roll enough dice in your lifetime to equal the statistical expected values.

Sure you will! Just because you notice the bad and/or extraordinary rolls more than you notice the mediocre ones, doesn't mean that the mediocre rolls don't outnumber the bad and/or extraordinary rolls.

3) The more dice you roll, the less they will matter. (Regression toward the mean)

I wouldn't go that far. The more dice you roll [attack] the more they matter. The more dice you roll [green] the more they matter.

I'm not sure what you mean, and we might be talking past one another.

• If you're saying that it's preferable to roll red dice over green dice then... well, duh!
• If you're saying that green dice are less likely to give a result that their roller wants to see than red dice are (as in #hits/crits on a red die > #evades on a green die), I think you're right, but also... well, we knew that one already.
• If you're saying that green dice are less lucky than red dice are, then I think we're at a disagreement, but it's probably a metaphysical one that we're not going to resolve. You'll have to make peace with your own dice Gods.
• If you're saying that greater pools of dice are more likely to have more outlier results, then we're also at a disagreement. If you're susceptible to having your mind changed, then we might be able to rectify our agreement. If not, then, again, metaphysics.

What about aliens?

Yes, the aliens may be altering your dice rolls.

But, good news! I am developing a snake oil that wards them off. Do you want my eBay link? I take PayPal!

Allen Emrich is one of my favorite game designers, though he isn't particularly famous for his board game designs (he's known for designing Masters of Orion and creating the first x4 genre game) anyone who has ever had the pleasure to sit at one of his lectures or better yet take on of his University courses would understand why gamers might hold him in high regard. I did take his game design course for ***** and giggles back in college when he taught at the University of Irvine.

In any case I recall one of his lectures about dice (or randomness) and what he basically said was that a game without randomness is not a game, its a puzzle, which once solved can be thrown away as it becomes completely useless to the person who solves it. The only exception to that rule where puzzled that are dynamic in nature, but that's a more complicated subject. (chess comes to mind). The basic idea however was that the simplest way to create dynamics in a game, is to add an element of randomness and I agree with that. Most games without randomness, unless they happen to be so complex and dynamic that they can't really be solved, become a rather boring affair after a while. Puerto Rico for example is such a game.

Dice are an important random factor in X-Wing, its the foundation of the game. You use strategy to build your fleet and tactics to move them around the board into good position. If you are successful both will put the odds of the dice in your favor but if we didn't get to roll them, if we didn't get a chance to curse or praise the dice gods, the game would not be nearly as much fun, and would be far more predictable.

I think you are wrong in saying that dice determine the outcome of games, its a silly notion, one lucky shot does not make a game "go down hill" unless you make a lot of mistakes afterwards. I have never sat and watched a game (live or on youtube) where I couldn't point out the mistakes that contributed (or caused) the player who lost to loose. Its always very plain as day that there was a strategic or tactical error made that put him into a position that ultimately caused him to lose and I'm certain if I saw your games that would be the case as well.

Now I do agree that sometimes you simply lose in the strategic phase when choosing what ships to fly. I have played in games where clearly I was outmatched, I picked ships that my opponents ships clearly countered and it put me at a disadvantage before the game even started (some might say I lost it before it even started). I have also played in games where my tactical moves where just bad or I failed to anticipate my opponent and found myself at a major disadvantage every round.

So far however I have never had a game where I had the list to beat my opponent and made the tactical moves to beat my opponent and still lost, that simply has never happened so far. Rolling badly in those situation however has happened and usually the result is just a longer game, but if I beat him strategically during picks and tactically on the board... the dice either make it a swift victory or a slow one.

Amazing post, thank you for sharing and for summing it up so well!

It's also because only the sensational makes headlines. You always remember that day you rolled blanks all day... but you tend to forget the other 4 days you rolled normal... or even well.

This is an excellent and often overlooked point in the "luck vs skill" argument.

In the most blatant example of dice luck deciding a game...

I had a game on vassal once where we were both down to our last ship each. Both were Krassis, both had HLC and Recon specialist, both had same number of health left.

We ended up playing conga line around the map exchanging shots each turn.

In the end my opponent rolled better than me and won plain and simple.

By "playing conga line" I assume one was following the other around the board. If they both had HLC, that means only one was getting the 4th attack die, unless you also happened to stay at Range 1 of each other. So unless it was Range 1 all the way (in which case, why were you making it so easy on each other to predict movement, instead of trying to gain an advantage?) I'm going to guess the guy with the HLC facing the enemy won, and it didn't have quite as much to do with luck.

A close game is a game that can go either way, it is perfectly fine.

The close games are also the most fun!

On a related note, there are now two people on this forum I will no longer be responding to. And, unlike them, I am capable of not responding when I say I no longer will.

5 pages on THIS?

5 pages on THIS?

Hey, I tried to make it a better conversation, rather than just dice-whining. What do you have?

Sometimes I wear my tin foil hat while pretending I am at war with house plants..

Because dice matter..

blew up a phantom today, range three through an asteroid, cloaked with naked dice. 1 hit, 2 crits, both crits were direct hits, phantom had 1 shield gone already.

phantom player rolled 6 dice with focus and an evade token and got nothing. I rolled almost perfect, he rolled perfectly useless.

Dice really do matter. I was settling in for a drawn out dog-fight, phantom player was flying away to flank me, decided to cloak for an action at range three behind an asteroid rather than to barrel roll out of range, thinking the decloak movement would be helpful in getting back into the fight next round.

Couldn't believe it. 3 red dice doing 5 damage against 6 evade dice with a focus doing absolutely zilch. The most amazing roll of my gaming career.

It takes a matter of two hours for a thread to fall of the front page in these forums. If someone post a topic you have no interest in commenting on, it's gone in a flash. As frustrated as some of you may be over repeated threads, the comments boarder on internet bullying if not out right. I my self have gotten involved in heated discussions on these forums but have learned to just walk away. We also need to stay away from derogatory slang while addressing other members in the community as your likely hurting someone other than the person your aiming the words at.

blew up a phantom today, range three through an asteroid, cloaked with naked dice. 1 hit, 2 crits, both crits were direct hits, phantom had 1 shield gone already.

phantom player rolled 6 dice with focus and an evade token and got nothing. I rolled almost perfect, he rolled perfectly useless.

Dice really do matter. I was settling in for a drawn out dog-fight, phantom player was flying away to flank me, decided to cloak for an action at range three behind an asteroid rather than to barrel roll out of range, thinking the decloak movement would be helpful in getting back into the fight next round.

Couldn't believe it. 3 red dice doing 5 damage against 6 evade dice with a focus doing absolutely zilch. The most amazing roll of my gaming career.

Sad thing is, I've been on the phantom end of that... Within the first month of playing this game (mostly Imperials), I've stopped trusting green dice and don't understand why stealth device was such a hot thing in the past.

Actually there's only one thing in the world that matters guys. Starts with a Phantom and ends with a Y-wing.

This one always cracked me up and seems to fit here.
(For the record I depend on tactics - because dice will fail you.)

http://search.dilbert.com/comic/Random%20Number%20Generator