After reading a number of threads on this forum discussing the merits of the 3 capital ships and their stated ship costs in conjunction to their (perceived) ability to damage one another, could it be possible that we are undervaluing Fighters and their given traits/abilities in Armada?

All I'm suggesting here is that Fighters might, essentially, be an Ace card that we don't know about yet due to not having the full rules in front of us.

While this game has garnered a great deal of worthwhile praise, from me and the majority of other posters here, the given assigned point values for capital ships shouldn't be our focus for the overall indicator of battle effectiveness of each fleet... Fighters might possess abilities that would elevate them to being a very capable tool in Armada that we herein aren't privy to.

Yep, quite true. Battleships, aircarft carriers and all sorts of ships were sunk in World War II by aircraft. There's a few instances of ships being sunk in 1945 by a single Kamikaze aircraft. So anything is possible. Are we likely to see dedicated strike craft like Y-Wings and TIE Bombers?

What we are seeing is a lot of wild speculation without a shred of evidence as to how it all is going to work. I guess that just shows how impatient we all are.

Edit post GenCon: Well, I guess my question about Y-Wing and TIE Bombers was answered then.

I am certain that first wave of expansions will be a smaller Imperial escort type ship (Say Lancer or Carrick) and a rebel Mon Cal cruiser. Plus 2 squadrons, rebel Y-wings and Imp Squints. Since I get the feeling that squadrons will be bought separately from main ships.

So wave 0 would be Victory, Nebulon-B, Corvette, X-wing, TIE.

I think that if we get a Mon Cal cruiser and it is accompanied with star fighters these will be B-Wings. This is due to the in-universe influence of Admiral Ackbar in their conception.

I think B-wings will be a later addition. Y-wings or A-wings first. Imps get either Squints or Bombers.

One of the things they posted about the game did in fact say that Fighters could be a real threat to a Cap Ship if they're ignored.

B-wings might come out early.

They are hard-hitters, designed to attack SDs etc and hava a natural role in this game.

Real question in my mind...

Will they release whole squads in a package, or will they only have them as part of the package for the cap ships.

I think you'll get packs of 2/3 squadrons in separate blister packs from the large ships. You might possibly get a free squadron or 2 of basic fighters with a large ship blister.

They should go easy on the fighters, as fighters can ruin the game. The decisive mechanic of the game is plotting the maneuvres of capital ships. Fighter can go anywhere in range without any plan or plotting.

Look at Luke's squadron card. He shoots through and ignores shields.

Yes, but their damage output is quite small. And rightly so.

I expect B-Wings, Y-Wings and TIE Bombers to have larger damage output. But I hope it's still fairly low-end.

I was surprised to see that the fighter packs for wave 1 include Y-wings, B-wings, A-wings, Squints, Tie Advanced, and Tie Bombers. With X-wings and Tie Fighters coming with the starter set where does this leave FFG to release more fighters in the future?

I think X-wing gives us many examples that I would be excited to see later on. Tie defenders, Tie avenger, E-wing, Z-95s etc.. But I also expect we'll see heavy ship squadrons introduced eventually. For example, Scimitar Bombrs and Lamda's etc. But not sure of anything for the rebels.

They should go easy on the fighters, as fighters can ruin the game. The decisive mechanic of the game is plotting the maneuvres of capital ships. Fighter can go anywhere in range without any plan or plotting.

I think 100 points of fighters should be a fair fight for a 100 point capital ship.

Fighters here have a short range in comparision and you can ignore fighters if you are engaged with them. So Luke only gets to shoot through a ship with shields if you don't engage him with your own fighters.

I know in several other games fighters are insanely imballanced, but that is other games.

I really don't think you CAN ignore fighters. Just look at ties. ties roll 1 blue dice. assuming that the picture of the tie fighter with the blue attack dice diamond is their anti ship attack.

learly, one blue dice is at least comparable to one black (look at the victory I versus the victory II... it's basically the same ship, but 10 points to convert your black dice to blues).

So just do the math. Tie fighters are described as not good against ships and primarily an escort unit to protect against enemy fighters/bombers.... but an 8 base tie swarm will roll 8 blue dice per phase (and crits are not ignored). A victory is rolling 6 in it's best firing arc at optimum range.

Ties not only can move to pick out the enemy's weakest facing, but if supported by squadron commands, do more damage than a star destroyer for their cost. Obviously there are reasons to not use 8 squadrons of ties against one target (the point defense systems are AOE and hit everything in the same arc and range 2), but even non bomber ships seem to have very viable weaponry to devastate capital ships.

And of course, they can burn through defense cards quickly or ignore them completely, as each squadron, for ~15-20 points, resolves an attack separately. your half damage card is not going to be super useful against a single blue dice.

I'm not sure where anyone is getting the idea that people are undervaluing fighters. Especially as the game isn't out yet. And anyone who is a fan of Star Wars already knows that fighters are valuable for surgical strikes.

It's understandable that people are more enthusiastic about the capital ships as it is totally new compared to X-Wing.

but an 8 base tie swarm will roll 8 blue dice per phase (and crits are not ignored).

Crits are ignored. Standard, it's only when capital ships fire at other capital ships that crits are not ignored.

Otherwise the bomber rule on X-Wing squadrons serves no purpose (turns a crit into a hit when shooting at capital ships).

but an 8 base tie swarm will roll 8 blue dice per phase (and crits are not ignored).

Crits are ignored. Standard, it's only when capital ships fire at other capital ships that crits are not ignored.

Otherwise the bomber rule on X-Wing squadrons serves no purpose (turns a crit into a hit when shooting at capital ships).

Correct

Yep, quite true. Battleships, aircarft carriers and all sorts of ships were sunk in World War II by aircraft. There's a few instances of ships being sunk in 1945 by a single Kamikaze aircraft. So anything is possible. Are we likely to see dedicated strike craft like Y-Wings and TIE Bombers?

What we are seeing is a lot of wild speculation without a shred of evidence as to how it all is going to work. I guess that just shows how impatient we all are.

FYI but the most tonnage sunk in WW2 was by USN Fleet class submarines. After all no ship that small has a cloaking device.

; )

I believe the style of play for rebels and imperials will vary greatly.

Imperials will be all about getting the big boys into good firing position and unleashing heavy close range broadsides (well, on the bow, so that the front and side arcs converge on your target for the most pain. TIEs will be utilised to hold up the superior rebel fighters. If the Imperials ignore the rebel fighters they will be in a world of hurt.

Rebels will be more about developing a good, hard hitting bomber strike package with fighter escort, whilst the capital ships support and try to flank the sluggish imperials. If the rebels allow the imperials to get close with their forward arcs, they will be in a world of hurt.

Its the ultimate Battleship verses Aircraft carrier debate, IN SPACE! and ties in very well with the fluff of star wars. The rebels were largely made up of defecting imperial fighter pilots. It made sense that they focussed their tactics on what they were trained to do, fight with fighters (each being far more durable and powerful than their imperial counterparts) with the capital ships (rare and indesposable) in more of a support/carrier role.

Conversely, the imperial fleet was all about shock and awe. You see a couple of stark grey wedges of doom in the skies above your world, you think twice before having rebelous thoughts. Fighters were relegated for in system patrol whilst the SD cruised through, and trained to be reliant on mother to come to the rescue.

Also the <accuracy> face would have no effect on Cap Ships if the fighters are only rolling one dice, so the only roll that will have an effect when a fighter rolls a blue die will be <hit>.

Yep, quite true. Battleships, aircarft carriers and all sorts of ships were sunk in World War II by aircraft. There's a few instances of ships being sunk in 1945 by a single Kamikaze aircraft. So anything is possible. Are we likely to see dedicated strike craft like Y-Wings and TIE Bombers?

What we are seeing is a lot of wild speculation without a shred of evidence as to how it all is going to work. I guess that just shows how impatient we all are.

FYI but the most tonnage sunk in WW2 was by USN Fleet class submarines. After all no ship that small has a cloaking device.

; )

Yes I was fully aware that submarines sunk many more ships than Kamikaze attacks. The biggest battleships in the world, the Yamato and Musashi were both lost to aircraft attack. My point was that the one little pesky mosquito buzzing around a Star Destroyer can still have the potential to damage it. Nothing is immune to damage.

I love fighter swarms in capital-scale games, for some reason, so I'll be testing the validity of this theory as soon as the game releases. Given the threat snubfighters posed to capital-scale ships in the movies and the EU, it seems fair to assume that they will be a significant danger to capital ships in Armada.

I hope we get some neat carriers!

I believe the style of play for rebels and imperials will vary greatly.

Imperials will be all about getting the big boys into good firing position and unleashing heavy close range broadsides (well, on the bow, so that the front and side arcs converge on your target for the most pain. TIEs will be utilised to hold up the superior rebel fighters. If the Imperials ignore the rebel fighters they will be in a world of hurt.

Rebels will be more about developing a good, hard hitting bomber strike package with fighter escort, whilst the capital ships support and try to flank the sluggish imperials. If the rebels allow the imperials to get close with their forward arcs, they will be in a world of hurt.

Its the ultimate Battleship verses Aircraft carrier debate, IN SPACE! and ties in very well with the fluff of star wars. The rebels were largely made up of defecting imperial fighter pilots. It made sense that they focussed their tactics on what they were trained to do, fight with fighters (each being far more durable and powerful than their imperial counterparts) with the capital ships (rare and indesposable) in more of a support/carrier role.

Conversely, the imperial fleet was all about shock and awe. You see a couple of stark grey wedges of doom in the skies above your world, you think twice before having rebelous thoughts. Fighters were relegated for in system patrol whilst the SD cruised through, and trained to be reliant on mother to come to the rescue.

I mostly agree though there's no proof that the majority of Rebel fighter pilots were defecting Imperials, and it wouldn't surprise me if as many Imperial warship crewmembers and officers or at least close to as many defected as did fighter pilots. I think the Rebels reliance on fighters came from the fact it was much easier to obtain and manufacture then capital ships and it was probably easier to hide fighter factories then major shipyards as well.

I think for Star Wars as in WWII, fighters definitely have the potential to be king and frankly, that's appropriate. In all the movies and TV shows, fighter battles are given much more time and drama than ship-to-ship combat.

So the question is: Why capital ships?

What's poorly reflected in games in general, especially ship-to-ship games like Armada, is that capital ships provide logistics. It's like a carrier group..you can't operate far away in deep space with just fighters. They have to land somewhere, the pilots need to rest, refit, etc.

You also can't stage a land invasion with fighters. Big ships provide transport and support for land armies. In general what's missing in a lot of fleet-to-fleet combat games is that the point of big ships is NOT to well..shoot at each other, the point is to provide mobile bases from which to stage massive military operations.

If we're going WWII analogies, I feel that the Rebel philosophy is the (American) fighter heavy tactic, while Imperials favor (Japanese) battleship-style tactics. While fighters had the advantage in WWII, certainly that can be altered by making battleships stronger/cheaper/more powerful, or limiting fighters in such a way to reflect logistics.