Obligatory post. Three five points.*

* Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

1. MathWing says the A-wing is over-costed by about 2 points.
2. MathWing says the TIE Advanced is over-costed by about 4 points.
3. I am a fan of the House Rule below. I don't have a name for it yet.
4. MathWing says the X-wing is overcosted by about 1 point. The TIE Advanced is absolutely not statistically comparable to the X-wing, especially once you consider the upgrades and the dial, which also favor the X-wing. On a related note, generic X-wing use has dropped off a cliff now that there are Z-95s.
5. Being overcosted by 2 points (generic A-wings) or even just 1 point (generic X-wings) does matter competitively when alternatives are available. Go check out the Regionals results. Being overcosted by 4 points is, well... the generics are just going to collect dust.

Title (TIE Advanced only)

Cost: -1 (Vader), -2 (others)

After you perform an attack, you may acquire a target lock on the defender.

Reasoning:

1. It's -2 cost and +Fire-Control System, which is almost worth 4 points. There's your 4 points to make the generics (and possibly Maarek) relevant.
2. Vader's ability is super-powerful, so to encourage using the other pilots the cost is only -1 for Vader vs -2 for the others. It is essentially a retroactive fix to change Vader's cost relative to the other Advanced pilots.
3. I don't feel like opening up the can of worms from adding full-on System Upgrade slot, which would still require an additional 4 point cost reduction to be useful.
4. Functionally it is identical to having a Fire Control System but doesn't physically require the FCS card.
5. It slightly increases damage output without resorting to drastic measures like increasing to 3 attack dice. Thematically one could argue that this represents the more advanced targeting system on the TIE Advanced. Yes, we know that the TIE Advanced can already take the Target Lock action, but practically speaking that doesn't really help all that much in the X-wing minis game.
6. FCS has great synergy with Cluster Missiles. TIE Advanced came standard with Cluster Missiles in Rogue Squadron, so this matches the background material.

An upgrade pack with a "purple" attack die and a "blue" defense die. Purple has an extra crit instead of a hit and the blue has a double evade instead of one focus. Titles for the advanced that allow them to sub in these elite dice for varying reasons and some other benefit...1-2 upgrade cards for all ships that allow them to use these elite dice.

Not sure this was exactly the faces we talked about for an "elite" die. There is a thread on it somewhere.

Obligatory post. Three points.

1. MathWing says the A-wing is over-costed by about 2 points.
2. MathWing says the TIE Advanced is over-costed by about 4 points.
3. I am a fan of the House Rule below. I don't have a name for it yet.
4. MathWing says the X-wing is overcosted by about 1 point. The TIE Advanced is absolutely not statistically comparable to the X-wing, especially once you consider the upgrades and the dial, which also favor the X-wing. On a related note, generic X-wing use has dropped off a cliff now that there are Z-95s.
5. Being overcosted by 2 points (generic A-wings) or even just 1 point (generic X-wings) does matter competitively when alternatives are available. Go check out the Regionals results. Being overcosted by 4 points is, well... the generics are just going to collect dust.

Title (TIE Advanced only)

Cost: -1 (Vader), -2 (others)

After you perform an attack, you may acquire a target lock on the defender.

Reasoning:

1. It's -2 cost and +Fire-Control System, which is almost worth 4 points. There's your 4 points to make the generics (and possibly Maarek) relevant.
2. Vader's ability is super-powerful, so to encourage using the other pilots the cost is only -1 for Vader vs -2 for the others. It is essentially a retroactive fix to change Vader's cost relative to the other Advanced pilots.
3. I don't feel like opening up the can of worms from adding full-on System Upgrade slot, which would still require an additional 4 point cost reduction to be useful.
4. Functionally it is identical to having a Fire Control System but doesn't physically require the FCS card.
5. It slightly increases damage output without resorting to drastic measures like increasing to 3 attack dice. Thematically one could argue that this represents the more advanced targeting system on the TIE Advanced. Yes, we know that the TIE Advanced can already take the Target Lock action, but practically speaking that doesn't really help all that much in the X-wing minis game.
6. FCS has great synergy with Cluster Missiles. TIE Advanced came standard with Cluster Missiles in Rogue Squadron, so this matches the background material.

Nice! I like it.

Maybe a modification of my suggestion (and to your point 3 and 4) is to have something like a

System Upgrade slot that gives you -4 (since that's the mathwing conclusion for the overcost) for everyone but Vader (who gets -3), and if you put something in that slot, you deduct the points from the -4.

It's kind of a combination of yours, mine, and Levi's idea, so you have:

Tie Advance Title:

Gives Systems Upgrade slot AND a -4 point cost

Ex:

Enhanced Scopes = -3 point cost with ability

FCS = -2 point cost with the ability

AdvS = -1 point cost with ability

Sensor Jammer = no minus cost with ability

So you always get -4 points off and don't have to spend it on a Systems Upgrade if you don't want.

Nice! I like it.

Maybe a modification of my suggestion (and to your point 3 and 4) is to have something like a

System Upgrade slot that gives you -4 (since that's the mathwing conclusion for the overcost) for everyone but Vader (who gets -3), and if you put something in that slot, you deduct the points from the -4.

It's kind of a combination of yours, mine, and Levi's idea, so you have:

Tie Advance Title:

Gives Systems Upgrade slot AND a -4 point cost

Ex:

Enhanced Scopes = -3 point cost with ability

FCS = -2 point cost with the ability

AdvS = -1 point cost with ability

Sensor Jammer = no minus cost with ability

So you always get -4 points off and don't have to spend it on a Systems Upgrade if you don't want.

It's a matter of preference and playtesting. I would rather make it a simple fix and, in this case, leave less design space for the TIE Advanced, and keep the System Upgrade slot feeling more "unique" on the ships that have it. But it could work. In general I think people would just take the Advanced at 17 points, and leave the slot empty.

Came here expecting cool builds and the idea that A-Wings will start making their way into more builds because they are hella fun to fly and only 15 points now for a basic which has the same dial as the Int. but trades 1 dmg for 1 shield. Can we talk about the awesomeness that is Jake Farrell and being able to run him with 2 EPTs?

Left dissapointed after reading ANOTHER Tie Advanced thread.

I'm looking forward to running Farrell with refit, test pilot, wingman and veteran instincts and having him run with a stay on target wedge or luke

It's a matter of preference and playtesting. I would rather make it a simple fix and, in this case, leave less design space for the TIE Advanced, and keep the System Upgrade slot feeling more "unique" on the ships that have it. But it could work. In general I think people would just take the Advanced at 17 points, and leave the slot empty.

I actually never figured out why some ships have System Upgrades and others don't. I mean, what is the pattern here?

- Lambda

- Phantom

- B-Wing

- E-Wing

???

It's a matter of preference and playtesting. I would rather make it a simple fix and, in this case, leave less design space for the TIE Advanced, and keep the System Upgrade slot feeling more "unique" on the ships that have it. But it could work. In general I think people would just take the Advanced at 17 points, and leave the slot empty.

I actually never figured out why some ships have System Upgrades and others don't. I mean, what is the pattern here?

- Lambda

- Phantom

- B-Wing

- E-Wing

???

Three newly manufactured fighters and the Empire's VIP transport, which is of course kept scrupulously up-to-date.

As usual, MajorJuggler's analysis is very interesting! Thanks.

It's a matter of preference and playtesting. I would rather make it a simple fix and, in this case, leave less design space for the TIE Advanced, and keep the System Upgrade slot feeling more "unique" on the ships that have it. But it could work. In general I think people would just take the Advanced at 17 points, and leave the slot empty.

I actually never figured out why some ships have System Upgrades and others don't. I mean, what is the pattern here?

- Lambda

- Phantom

- B-Wing

- E-Wing

???

Three newly manufactured fighters and the Empire's VIP transport, which is of course kept scrupulously up-to-date.

What of the tie defender?

It's a matter of preference and playtesting. I would rather make it a simple fix and, in this case, leave less design space for the TIE Advanced, and keep the System Upgrade slot feeling more "unique" on the ships that have it. But it could work. In general I think people would just take the Advanced at 17 points, and leave the slot empty.

I actually never figured out why some ships have System Upgrades and others don't. I mean, what is the pattern here?

- Lambda

- Phantom

- B-Wing

- E-Wing

???

Three newly manufactured fighters and the Empire's VIP transport, which is of course kept scrupulously up-to-date.

Or more practically speaking they are all wave 3 or newer when the Sensor slot was introduced, it is quite likely the sensor slot had not even been thought of when the original game and wave 1 (of which the TIE Advanced is is) were released

It's a matter of preference and playtesting. I would rather make it a simple fix and, in this case, leave less design space for the TIE Advanced, and keep the System Upgrade slot feeling more "unique" on the ships that have it. But it could work. In general I think people would just take the Advanced at 17 points, and leave the slot empty.

I actually never figured out why some ships have System Upgrades and others don't. I mean, what is the pattern here?

- Lambda

- Phantom

- B-Wing

- E-Wing

???

Three newly manufactured fighters and the Empire's VIP transport, which is of course kept scrupulously up-to-date.

What of the tie defender?

They must have forgotten to install the System Upgrade along with the Beam Weapon technology. Lord Vader will be most displeased!

They must have forgotten to install the System Upgrade along with the Beam Weapon technology. Lord Vader will be most displeased!

As long as Lord Vader gets a shiny System Upgrade installed on his personal craft sometime in the near future, he'll be appeased.