Okay... question regarding how the trap, Curse of the Monkey God works...

The card reads, "Play when a Hero opens a chest". If the hero fails the "save" he is transformed and his turn IMMEDIATELY ENDS according to the rulebook. The rules also state that a transformed hero cannot "use" items. Does this mean he doesn't receive the "item" treasures from the chest because he cannot "equip" (because he's a monkey now)? Is he forced to "drop" the item?

Basically, is "equipping" considered an action or not? "RE-EQUIP" is definitely an action, but it costs movement points so its obvious that it is. So, does this mean the other "equip" times are also movement actions, albeit free?

scratching temple here...

The monkey receives treasure cards as usual. IMHO he can even equip it right away similar to an untransformed hero.

"Equipping" happens at the start of a hero´s turn or whenever he receives an item (by treasure or from another hero). So it is something like a "free action".

Equipping != using. The monkey can receive and equip items and treasures as normal, but having these items equipped does not provide any bonus or allow the monkey to attack. A monkey with an elven cloak equipped cannot roll power dice to negate damage, for example. The hero player should keep track of what is or is not equipped on his person as it might matter when the monkey spell wears off, but nothing he has can change his abilities or stats while he's a monkey.

Steve-O said:

From where do you get that a monkey may not use the Elven cloak or the like? Monkey Armor value is Zero, that is clear, but the special abilities of the items should still work?! Even "appropriate" skills still work, according to FAQ/GLoAQ/some official answer.

Parathion said:

Per the OP's remark, the rules state that a monkey cannot use items.

Steve-O said:

But they don't state that they cannot gain the benefit of items. It's equipped. Your armor value is 0, but your armor is still on. You don't "use" the item. It has a passive effect of allowing you to roll dice to possibly cancel wounds. I would argue that a monkey still gets it's power dice if that monkey has a cloak equipped.

I can agree, grudgingly, that "equipping" is not "using" an item. However, I do not see how gaining the benefits of an item can be seen as anything other than "using" it.

Wayfindre said:

A shield requires you to exhaust it. A sword requires you make an attack. A ghost armor requires you spend fatigue. A cloak just is. Once again, it's effect is PASSIVE. Your call how you want to handle it. Wounds that ignore armor don't ignore the cloak's passive ability, and you still have items equipped when you are a monkey (otherwise your pack would fill up, among other issues). I would contend that since you can use skills and spend fatigue as a monkey, that you can gain the advantage of an armor's passive special ability...imho.

Feanor said:

I agree with you and I like your argument. It just calls for a more strict interpretation of the rules, as I hadn't encountered the fact that the cloaks can reduce damage from pits and such. However, that makes me want to definitely be strict about the rules. There is no definition of anything, that I have seen , as being "active" or "passive" in the rulebook that states whether one or the other is being "used". As such, that makes it a fairly grey area and I guess each group figures it out themselves.

I would argue that, since a monkey is able to use skills and spend fatigue, he is utilizing mental abilities. However, his physical self is now a monkey as represented by changing his miniature out for a monkey token. He cannout use items because they are not accessable. (I guess his items change with him or are in "limbo" somewhere). If the monkey is scampering around wearing his cloak and dragging his rage blade behind him, then sure, he can use the cloak. Again, thats just how I see it. I guess the argument is either thematic versus strict interpretation.

I would like to go with whatever the majority of the community says OR of course an "official" answer. Thanks all.

Wayfindre said:

Bear in mind that only "appropriate" skills can be used by a monkey. Whatever they meant by that in the FAQ/GLoAQ...

I take that to mean he can use skills like Telekinesis, but would be unable to activate some of the others because they require declaring an action, like Knight.

Wayfindre said:

There are several items that can be defined as "passive" items. Anything that you equip and don't have to exhaust the card or spend fatigue to activate is a passive item. Ring of Protection (or whatever its called), Ring of Quickness, the belt that gives a damage bonus...these are all passive effects. If you have any of those equipped, they give their effect without havng to do anything.

Now on the other hand, anything that requires you to exhaust a card or spend fatigue can be defined as active, like Shields, Gauntlets of Power, the majority of effects on weapons.

Big Remy said:

I can agree with all the above statements about "passive" and "active" items. My problem is this: What is the definition of "use an item"? Common sense would dictate that regardless of active versus passive, the item is still being "used". You don't have to activate your armor to reduce damage, because it is passive, but would you argue that the armor is not being "used"? The off-hand weapon bonus is a "passive" ability, but would you say the off-hand item is not being "used"? That is the crux of my question..

Also, Re-Equip IS a movement action. It does the same thing as opening a chest or getting items from adjacent heroes. It stands to reason that these are movement actions with a zero cost just like dropping an item. By the arguments of some posters above, a monkey could equip on his turn, receive treasures from a chest AND adjacent heroes but CANNOT "drop an item"? Why could he shift equipment around in his pack to his hands yet not be able to drop one of them? Kind of silly when you think about it.

But there is also nothing about being a monkey that says your items are unequipped. The effect of those cloaks is inherent to cloak itself: if its equipped, it works the way listed on the card.

I very well could be wrong about this, but that's just the way I see it.

How about this:

Ox Tattoo grants immunity to a series of lingering effects. A hero with Ox Tattoo who ends up transformed is still immune.

The Mirror Shield grants immunity to all lingering effect tokens. A hero with the Mirror Shield who ends up transformed ______

I would argue that the two cases are exactly the same, heroes with the mirror shield are immune to lingering effects, and there's no need to try and define "use".

Further Example:

There's an item that adds +2 wounds to a given hero. "A monkey has the hero’s wounds and fatigue..." I would argue that the hero does not lose the 2 wounds after transforming into a monkey.

Basically, if you say that heroes lose the effects of their items when they transform into monkeys, it conflicts with the "hero's wounds and fatigue" aspect of the monkey rules.

The "Equipping Items" section of the rules implies that "carry and use" == "equip". However, the implication is weak, and there's more evidence that carry, use and equip are meant to be read as separate concepts ("A hero cannot use an item in his pack until he equips it", etc.). You could say that the "hero's wounds and fatigue" line is an exception to the "cannot use items" line, but there's not enough evidence to support use == equip in the first place. There's not enough evidence to support the doubt caused by the Transformed description.