Like I just got my new Space Wolves codex and it's like paying $50 to get punched in the balls.

Funniest thing ever. But really, paying $50US for a codex or army book is like paying for a ball shot. The ball STOMP is for those who pay $48US for a digital copy! GW you suck more than you realize.

I have no issue paying for stuff to play a game. I have a major issue with paying $50 for what GW just released as a "Space Wolf Codex" that could - if you remove the Thunderwolf entry - be cut and pasted to represent any Space Marine army.

Seriously, new codex after 6 years and no one complained about the old one at all. Instead of adding something that's fluffy and makes sense (like maybe plastic Wulfen) they add a flying boxcar:

And they add some 12 year old's vision of a Space-Viking-meets-Father-Christmas:

They removed Mark of the Wulfen from squads, nerfed every spell (ooo, 2D6 S3 hits at 12" - what's that supposed to be? A taser?), and turned Sagas into Warlord traits you get randomly. I'm tempted to just play the old codex but then again I'm tempted to find people who just want to play 3rd edition.

Seriously, FFG does a far better job with balancing, supporting, and pricing this X-wing game that I'm willing to trust their design decisions in the future. Go FFG.

Oh noes, the Spez Wolves aren't rapetastically OP! Quick, somebody nerf the Blood/Dark Angels codices so all the chapters are balanced!

Yeah that so wasn't his point, they removed what made them feel like a distinct army instead of just another space marine chapter.

Yeah that so wasn't his point, they removed what made them feel like a distinct army instead of just another space marine chapter.

Sorry, it must have been his use of the words "nerf" and "balance" that made me think he was talking about those things...

One of you will have to enlighten me on a few things, since I'm having a hard time detecting the homogeneity. Which other chapters get chariots, Devastators that can split fire, Dreadnoughts with shields, and independent terminators? Where are the Death Company and Ravenwing entries in the new Space Wolves codex?

Oh noes, the Spez Wolves aren't rapetastically OP! Quick, somebody nerf the Blood/Dark Angels codices so all the chapters are balanced!

?? The DA book is pretty nerfed at the moment as is BA. Until they release that and I doubt that will depart from the bland train the current edition is on. Which would leave SW in line with the others, so what was your point exactly ? A lot of flavor was squeezed out and such statements wouldn't have anything to do with the power. I assume however you wouldn't say such without having given a full read through the book.

I would add what other chapters would care about a chariot ? I don't with SW that is for sure and wouldn't want it for the others.

All the book release did was drop some quick to fade gimmicks and a flyer, no real substance.

I was being sarcastic. Of course the other chapters aren't sitting so pretty right now.

I have to give it to GW, takes big balls to nerf and bland up their IPs cash cows.

Let's be fair, just how radically different should the Space Marine chapters be? A few tweaks here and there for a bit of flavor and variance is fine, but do you really expect them to play as differently as one of the xenos factions? I mean, you could always just roll Chaos. Those poor souls don't even get separate codices for their chapters. It's not a good time to be a World Eaters fan, let me tell you.

Discussions like this make me feel happy to say that I have been GW sober for almost a year now.

Yeah that so wasn't his point, they removed what made them feel like a distinct army instead of just another space marine chapter.

Exactly. Grey Hunters were priced up by 1 point and their special weapons are more expensive but now someone can buy a flying boxcar and drop 15 Blood Claws with a Wolf Priest in your face. That's isn't my army list but yes, they're far less distinct now.

As an Ork player I'm really annoyed at the removal of Wazdakka and all of my biker boyz as troops. As Blood Angels player I can't wait for the new BA codex where I'll bet Dante no longer makes Sanguinary Guard troops.

This is 4th edition all over, to balance armies you regress them back to the same mean. At least FFG makes factions that have different rocks, papers, and scissors to play with.

Really, FFG is doing a much nicer job.

Let's be fair, just how radically different should the Space Marine chapters be? A few tweaks here and there for a bit of flavor and variance is fine, but do you really expect them to play as differently as one of the xenos factions? I mean, you could always just roll Chaos. Those poor souls don't even get separate codices for their chapters. It's not a good time to be a World Eaters fan, let me tell you.

Oh that's coming. Once GW gets around to releasing the new plastic greater demons you can bet your ass they'll release four separate faction books for $50 each then release a new Undivided CSM codex to replace the current one. Why let Chaos players pay $50 for one Codex when they can get away with charging you $250 for five?

And what made Space Wolves radically different? A bunch of them are slowly turning into werewolves, they can not only make rules for them (WS5, S5, T4, I4, W1, 3+, Rage, must advance towards closest model unless joined by a Wolf Priest, 25 points/model) and then release plastic Wulfen and make money as every Space Wolf player would buy them. That was my point. Instead they give them a flying transport and Santa's sleigh, just a miserable release.

Right, but don't you see how that's almost intruding on Death Company territory?

I can see being upset over some of the models. The sleigh is silly, conceptually, and the flying brick is downright ludicrous looking. I'm just not sure crying foul over perceived homogeneity is the right way to look at it.

Obviously a marine is a marine is a marine. However, there should be more difference then some gimmick ( Freeze rays, Axe dreads, Wolf Steeds, for instance ) and they don't need to be a lot. The only thing I'd say they made well with the wolf book is the new models are decent and they serve at least some point. More then can be said for half of the DA release. ( The fighter and New land speeder are, meh at best )

Their is difference that can be added, to promote at least some difference. Like the wilfen for example being made into term sized bases, beast creatures with multiple wounds, for rules ? Who knows, but they could be unique and interesting. It is GWs current design scheme that has them being very unimaginative.

Death company need work and attention as well, as currently they are just meh, but I don't expect to see much change with that when the new BA book drops.

Right, but don't you see how that's almost intruding on Death Company territory?

I can see being upset over some of the models. The sleigh is silly, conceptually, and the flying brick is downright ludicrous looking. I'm just not sure crying foul over perceived homogeneity is the right way to look at it.

Death Company have a similar role but they're still S4 and still a Marine unit that maneuver how they want, they also get pistols, powerfists, thunder hammers, etc. Wulfen advanced towards the nearest enemy unit unless led by a Wolf Priest using good ole claws and teeth.

Death Company used to have to charge the nearest unit, and Furious Charge still grants them +1 strength (if not the initiative they so rightly deserve).

Listen kiddo, don't be angry because we turned your useless ranting into a productive conversation about something we're actually interested in talking about... again.

And Tankbustas used to have to shoot the nearest vehicle even with an enemy squad bearing down on them, I'm glad that was changed.

I want to love GW but I see them failing in the same areas (game design, balance, price point) that FFG is succeeding in.

Hey now, I'm not justifying GW's business practices, not by a long shot. Maybe you did get a few less toys than you were hoping for out of the new codex, but that doesn't mean the sky is falling. I think there's still enough variety there that people should feel content to field a Space Wolf army, Santa's sleigh notwithstanding.

I understand what the op is saying, its like someone threw a rock at a hornets nest and upset all the nerds.

We now have another great game to play, completely different from each other, and both exactly what people really want.

Also each wave adds alot to the x-wing game.

But, I am not trying to upset anyone, have fun ya'all.

I don't think it's a either or gaming situation, I'm going to play both and if you think about it you can maximize your gaming time by playing X-Wing for fighter ships then jump to Armada for capital ships. One game doesn't take away from the other. It's just more table time with more toys!

So, rumor has it that Grey Knights are getting the next codex. Dark Eldar and Necrons are recent enough that they can probably wait several more months, but for the love of Sanguinius, can we get our Blood Angels psyker powers back already?

Delve deeper into the rumors: The codex will be Grey Knights only, no extraneous stuff like assassins or inquisitors. That means assassins will be released as iBooks dataslates (like $5 or $6 each) and then Inquisitors will maybe get their own codex (maybe with sisters, maybe not). That means to run an Ordo Malleus force (like I did in 3rd edition) you'll need to buy two codexes and a couple of dataslates.

Just lovin' this new release schedule!

And when Blood Angels come out get ready for your spells to get hit with the nerf bat like Space Wolves. Spear and Wings will either be nerfed or removed and you'll need to roll on the table for your spells, no more picking out the spells that make sense for your force. I wanted to use a jump pack Librarian with Shield in Dante's squad in my Sanguinary Guard force but now I can no longer plan for that. Not being able to choose Wings for my Libby Dread means he won't be able to keep up with my jump packs and will just sit on a shelf now. At least I didn't waste time painting him.

I had to laugh when day one, I saw a separate $50 supplemental codex for the wolves. I mean seriously. GW can't even release complete dexes anymore.

Also. Space Wolf meets Father Christmas is my phrase of the week.