As he said, the lines that are good and possible for you, are not someone else's. I am perfectly happy with the ships being in a variety of scales, because it means I can get more cool ships. To me, that is more important than trying to uphold scale.

Could someone tell me where I said that if the ships are not made in a constant scale the game should not be made or that I wouldn't support it? I'd really like to see that. And if someone can do it without lumping me in with "others on my side" they might have a point.

I'm simply debating the size of this ships and how they would look on the table. In another thread, I specifically said that I would buy into the game if it is as good as I'm told X-wing is. If the scale bothers me that much, I'll make my own ships. I just want to avoid the extra cost.

People need to quit taking personal attachment to a debate on miniature scale.

Thanks for admitting the insulting nature of your posting. For that reason, I have reported it to the moderators. I will no longer respond to someone who is obviously trolling and out right lying about what I and others did and did not say.

Thinking your views are worthy of insult is not the same as trolling. I really regret that the internet has dumbed down "trolling" to mean "anyone who says something I disagree with and might be just the slightest bit unkind about it".

I also haven't lied about anything - you'll note that any2cards did say precisely and directly that if the game didn't meet his standards it shouldn't be made (and I also notably exempted you from that point). You've also acknowledged directly that there is an acceptable point in the game where you think changing the scale is fine, which means the quibble is not over WHETHER to change scale (as you seem to be trying to make it) but WHERE you change scale. So I'm having a hard time finding where I'm lying about anything. You may not like the fact that your stance isn't as pure and principled as you seem to honestly believe it is, but that doesn't make it wrong.

Seeing that we're getting images of a game happening (or happened) at GenCon with actual miniatures, I think it's past the point where we don't have a rough idea about how FFG is going to scale them. Given what we see, I'm afraid we have to resign ourselves to the notion that they're using arbitrary scaling; maybe not as absurd as older games used to do, but still fairly arbitrary.

That, and the script and novelisation of ROTJ, plus numorous EU novels that I have read (including several x-wing series).

Home One took on multiple ISDs several times, even traded blows with a SSD. (broadsides into the bow, whilst on an axial role, stated that she had more guns brough to bare that what the SSDs frontal armament could). Ackbar at his finest once again.

All good points.

Thanks for admitting the insulting nature of your posting. For that reason, I have reported it to the moderators. I will no longer respond to someone who is obviously trolling and out right lying about what I and others did and did not say.

Thinking your views are worthy of insult is not the same as trolling. I really regret that the internet has dumbed down "trolling" to mean "anyone who says something I disagree with and might be just the slightest bit unkind about it".

I regret that it being the internet apparently means insults and snide insinuations are a perfectly reasonable method of conducting debate. Is it not possible to make your point without insults? Once insults start, threads on the internet tend to go down a toxic and very unproductive road as both sides start to out-do one another in insults until the original topic has been entirely forgotten.

I'm afraid we have to resign ourselves to the notion that they're using arbitrary scaling; maybe not as absurd as older games used to do, but still fairly arbitrary.

Thank goodness, reason prevails for the sake of awesome starship battles.

The pictures do look outstanding. Now if we could get some reports on game play...

The miniatures look very well done. I think a simple paint wash would really make the fighters look awesome.

Shame if the corvettes are that big. Ill probably make my own and pop them on the stand for my own enjoyment, but that's not going to stop me from enjoying the game if its that good.

I'm watching a video showing the game being played. One of the designers just said (at about the 9 minute mark) the game will have relative scale.

I guess that's the end of that. Bummer...

on the bright side, the game itself is looking very good. Its in the GenCon thread if anyone didn't know.

I guess that's the end of that. Bummer...

It's a bit of one yes. But the core set looks good. Provided other ships aren't as far out of scale as the CR-90 is, then I'll be happy.

I just don't want to see a 7" ISD next to a 5" VSD.

I regret that it being the internet apparently means insults and snide insinuations are a perfectly reasonable method of conducting debate. Is it not possible to make your point without insults? Once insults start, threads on the internet tend to go down a toxic and very unproductive road as both sides start to out-do one another in insults until the original topic has been entirely forgotten.

Oh please. Nothing said here is anything you shouldn't expect to hear at any random LGS if someone started saying "They shouldn't have made this game because I don't like the scale they chose". It's a silly argument, and one that wouldn't hold up any better in the real world than it does here. Likewise, hypocrisy rarely survives without comment regardless of the arena.

Only a Sith deals in absolute scales

I'm watching a video showing the game being played. One of the designers just said (at about the 9 minute mark) the game will have relative scale.

"Relative scale."

What the hell does that mean?

That could include both 'sliding scale' and 'pure BS scale'. I'm starting to guess the latter.

I'm watching a video showing the game being played. One of the designers just said (at about the 9 minute mark) the game will have relative scale.

"Relative scale."

What the hell does that mean?

That could include both 'sliding scale' and 'pure BS scale'. I'm starting to guess the latter.

They used the same term when they introduced the huge ships to X-wing.

I believe it means that they try to make the ships look right relative to each other, but not obsessively. A Corvette will never be bigger than an ISD, but the ISD may not be the ten times larger than a Corvette that it would be.

I'm watching a video showing the game being played. One of the designers just said (at about the 9 minute mark) the game will have relative scale.

"Relative scale."

What the hell does that mean?

That could include both 'sliding scale' and 'pure BS scale'. I'm starting to guess the latter.

If I had to take a guess, I'd say it means that ships will, while not scaled accurately, be consistent in their size category relative to one another. An x-wing is smaller than a Corvette, which is smaller than a Nebulon-B, which is smaller than a Victory, which is smaller than an ISD, that kind of "relative" scale.

Mikael,

You may be right. One thing I noticed in the demo is that the CR-90 can do a heck of a lot of damage. I'm not sure I care for that if the ship model represents a single ship. If it represents a small squadron (like destroyer squadrons in WWII for example) I can understand the damage abilities more readily.

Easily fixable though. Buy the game, and scratch build some small scale CR-90s for the stand.

The thing that bothers me most is that "tournament" table size. Seems a little small for maneuvering, as do the ranges. But then, a nice black table cloth on a 4x6 table and painted yard sticks fix that. Or, maybe there is a non-tournament play size. Who knows? But modifying those things are the magic of the home version.

That bending ruler for moving is brilliant! I absolutely love that idea.

I find myself liking the tournament table size. The small length, high width seems to encourage manoeuvring and fighting over the width rather than the length (so less jousting, more broadsiding). It also gets the fight started sooner rather than later, while keeping everything within easy reach.

I find myself liking the tournament table size.

Same size as Epic rules for X-Wing, and same number of points...

I find myself liking the tournament table size.

Same size as Epic rules for X-Wing, and same number of points...

True, but the ships can move a heck of a lot faster in Armada. A Corvette pulling all the stops and charging forwards at speed 4 is pretty much going to be moving 3 range bands. This speed will decrease he board length a tad.

Is it? I've never played X-wing so I didn't know. Until this, I've mostly been a historical gamer. We used 1/6000 scale ships and huge tables trying to go as realistic as possible. That colored some of my hopes for this game. But here again, I'm not seeing anything yet that's a deal breaker for me. Just something that I think could be interesting in home play.

The key is that, unlike most miniature wargames, there is only one range ruler (for now). All action will take place within the range of that ruler, so all a bigger table means is that it will take longer for the two sides to meet.

Not necessarily. Take a yard stick, divide it up like the in-game range rule and there you go. I wouldn't change the model movement speed or things like that. Guns can always reach out far longer so I think that wouldn't bother me.

I just didn't like how all the ships just formed a tight little mass at the center of the table. I'd like more space for maneuver, obstacles and bigger fleets. No way am I sticking to just 300 points! :-)

Not necessarily. Take a yard stick, divide it up like the in-game range rule and there you go. I wouldn't change the model movement speed or things like that. Guns can always reach out far longer so I think that wouldn't bother me.

I just didn't like how all the ships just formed a tight little mass at the center of the table. I'd like more space for maneuver, obstacles and bigger fleets. No way am I sticking to just 300 points! :-)

Well, yes. You can homebrew additional range quite easily. I meant more that the reason they're presenting us with the 6X3 board is because with stock rules, that's a good table size.

Keep in mind, it was a first game demo, with players who have experience with X-wing. I think it will take some familiarity with the rules and a few games to come up with different strategies.

Keep in mind, it was a first game demo, with players who have experience with X-wing. I think it will take some familiarity with the rules and a few games to come up with different strategies.

Not to mention the commanders, upgrade cards, obstacles, mission objectives and all the other stuff we haven't seen yet.

I'm watching a video showing the game being played. One of the designers just said (at about the 9 minute mark) the game will have relative scale.

I guess that's the end of that. Bummer...

on the bright side, the game itself is looking very good. Its in the GenCon thread if anyone didn't know.

He also mentioned that an ISD would cost $400 if same scale... So I guess pick your poison.

I think it will just come down to if they picked proper proportions of size and scale.