Yes, but I prefer to see only one game of ships, even with the wrong scale, instead two games, greettings.

Yes, but I prefer to see only one game of ships, even with the wrong scale, instead two games, greetings.

That may be, but I think you're in the minority on that one. I also wonder if the phrase 'consolation prize' has the same meaning for us as it does for you.

Yes, but I prefer to see only one game of ships, even with the wrong scale, instead two games, greetings.

I don't, because I've played with and against x-wings corvette, and it's rubbish. Put it up against pretty much any force and your chances of winning are practically non existant. You'll be outnumbered and outgunned, lacking the energy and accuracy to put any sizable dent in your opponent before your ship is gutted by the fighters. The only place where the corvette can do something is in scenarios, and even then it only does so because the scenarios tend to give crutches to the rebels through point costs or special rules.

I want to be able to put a capital ship on the table and have it matter. X-wing doesn't seem to be able to give me that. At least, not yet.

I don't, because I've played with and against x-wings corvette, and it's rubbish. Put it up against pretty much any force and your chances of winning are practically non existant. You'll be outnumbered and outgunned, lacking the energy and accuracy to put any sizable dent in your opponent before your ship is gutted by the fighters. The only place where the corvette can do something is in scenarios, and even then it only does so because the scenarios tend to give crutches to the rebels through point costs or special rules.

I want to be able to put a capital ship on the table and have it matter. X-wing doesn't seem to be able to give me that. At least, not yet.

I wish I could disagree with you, and I know people who do say that the CR-90 can be competitive in play, but that's not been my experience.

I would say that this may not be as much of a function of the CR-90's inherent competitiveness as much as it is a difference of skill that players have with the CR-90 as opposed to the fighters. Because we've all played many - MANY - 6a100pntDMs, we're all really skilled with the fighters. That's not the case for epic games with the big ships. I don't know about you, but I can count the epic games I've played on one hand, and very few of them have been with my ships (and I've owned them both for months).

That said, I did have one game where I did pull off a win, and that was a 300 point game in which I flew both the CR-90 and the GR-75, with minimal load-outs, and I played with a partner flying escorts whereas our opponent commanded all the fighters on his own (which was a benefit for him). So, it's not impossible to win with the huge ships.

But anyway, I do think that a capital ships game is an awesome thing, and I don't think it's a consolation prize. I hope it can somehow be complementary with X-Wing, but I'm not sure how it will be.

Transports are awesome. Cheap and minimal upgrades required to make it work, it's a ship that would do well even in a 100 point battle. The corvette with minimal upgrades though... I'm curious how you used it, because aside from being a damage sponge that tosses around tokens I don't really see a use for it.

Well, it still has a primary weapon, and I had a single set of quads on it. Beyond that, it's a great steamroller for running over ships (and asteroids) with. *grin*

Also, think of it as the greatest terrain piece that you can move, but your opponent can't. That allows you to know and determine what the shape of the battlefield will be. That's a rather large advantage.

You want to see a ship bigger than the table itself on the table?

Wow

You haven't seen his table

Well, it still has a primary weapon, and I had a single set of quads on it. Beyond that, it's a great steamroller for running over ships (and asteroids) with. *grin*

Also, think of it as the greatest terrain piece that you can move, but your opponent can't. That allows you to know and determine what the shape of the battlefield will be. That's a rather large advantage.

Ah yes, ramming. The most effective weapon of the Epic ships.

Nothing beats seeing a high THP ship go *poof* because the pilot was being a biiiit too gutsy.

I dont see Armada as a 'consolation prize' at all.

Basically X-wing was designed to do one thing very well, and that is simulate dogfights between fighters in small scale skirmishes and create a good balanced 100 point tournament game. We see things already start to break in X-wing when you go into high point value battles (300 points +). For those of us who desire massive skirmishes on the scale of the films. (You just have to look at other wargaming where people have entire garages or rooms set up as a single battle to see how far some people like to go!) There was always a void in X-wing at more than 100 point games without larger ships, because those capital ships feature in pretty much every cinematic star wars space battle except the original death star trench run.

Unfortunately (or rather fortunately) FFG has realised that what works as good game mechanics for a small fighter game, does not work for larger ships. They tried to tweek within the existing game by bringing out the capital ship movement template, but the reality is that the scale they chose when founding X-Wing is too large and the fighters too powerful to be able to bring larger, more powerful ships into the game. It was a massive oversight when designing X-wing not to have a future plan laid out on how to go bigger, since many wargames already see demand for that market.

So now they have gone back to the drawing board, and hopefully are designing Armada from the ground up with all the lessons they have learnt from what worked in X-wing (like having attack dice and damage cards), whilst changing the things that wont work (like fiddly movement for small ships, and one type of dice for all attacks).

What does this mean for X-Wing and Armada in the future? I don't know, but my money would be on a continuation of X-Wing with the view of that small scale skirmishes - so we probably wont see another capital ship for X-wing, but with the new scum and villany faction there is potential to bring in a lot more ships into that mix - potentially even I would say some opportunities for the rebels or imperials to "hire" scum units into their lists for added variation. Meanwhile I think Armada will be highly uptaken by the more "casual" (meaning non-tournament, not less playing) gamers who want something more fitting with the cinematic vision of Star Wars. Of course there are those of us who are already considering opportunities for resolving fighter battles in Armada with X-Wing miniatures on a smaller seperate table, but maybe we are just a bit nuts .

I for one, do not care about scale so long as it is an enjoyable game and the sizes show at least some differentiation between a Corellian Corvette and an ISD.

Y'all are hung up on the Imperial class, I'm waiting for the Executor!

Armada will be better than x-wing.

X-wing will be a consolation prize for people who want to do fighter battles.

Nuff said.

Armada will be better than x-wing.

X-wing will be a consolation prize for people who want to do fighter battles.

Nuff said.

So glad somebody else thinks Aramada looks genuinely better. Quite an unpopular opinion, but screw those guys

I was getting tired of the guys in this thread saying that this is a bandaid and a wool over the eyes.

Just look at the quality of these ships!!! How could anyone even suggest this was not a full fledged game in its own right? Just because FFG is giving us what we have wanted for a long while now?!?! its a conolation prize?!? Really?

oh, internet.

They tried to tweek within the existing game by bringing out the capital ship movement template, but the reality is that the scale they chose when founding X-Wing is too large and the fighters too powerful to be able to bring larger, more powerful ships into the game. It was a massive oversight when designing X-wing not to have a future plan laid out on how to go bigger, since many wargames already see demand for that market.

I don't know. I think that they probably thought that they would do Armada long before they brought the Huge ships into X-Wing. While epic is not a dominant form of play, and I agree there are imbalances, I don't think that Armada was the answer to what went wrong. Also, I think we're still going to get some Imperial Huge ships for X-Wing.

Commercially, I think that the Huge ships were a moderate success, even if they're not impacting the dominant style of play (C-3PO on the Fat Han notwithstanding). Most of the people playing X-Wing that I know have bought the Huge ships, even if they don't use them very often. That problem is not within the ships themselves, but in the default style of play (6a100pntDM).

I am still looking forward to introducing a style of play which includes more narrative and more epic. I can also see a way of integrating Armada into that narrative style of play, with a mission campaign determining what type of battle (regular X-Wing, epic X-Wing, or Armada) will happen after an earlier mission. But first I have to get through Finals season.

Actually, one of the least talked about things that i want most in Armada? The mission cards. I totally agree that "Deathmatch all day every day" is nowhere near as fun.

It was a massive oversight when designing X-wing not to have a future plan laid out on how to go bigger, since many wargames already see demand for that market.

I don't know of many, or really any that do. At least not in the same system. 40k has Apoc, but that's a different rule system. Warmachines, Flames of War, ect... none of these have any rules for huge units.

I own the CR-90 and GR-75, I will buy the Imperial larges when they come out. I hope to play more Epic games. But Epic just isn't the same when only one side has Huge ships.

I don't know. I think that they probably thought that they would do Armada long before they brought the Huge ships into X-Wing.

X-Wing does what it does very, very well. Trying to make the standard rules allow for X-Wings and ISD's on the same table would of been a massive mistake, because you can normally do one thing well, but the more you try to do, quite often the worse it becomes.

So do dog fights, and do them very well. Then have a different game for Cap Ships because frankly the two are not even remotely close enough to work together with the same rule set.