A few things come to mind when considering the idea of the internet in the 40k universe.

1. I highly doubt that the Imperium would wish for its subjects to have access to unfiltered information.

2. On tech-rich planets there would likely be communication and computing networks, but such things would likely be highly restricted and secure.

3. The internet would be a prime breeding ground for heresy, or worse actual chaos taint. The ruinous powers love to use humanity's technology against it.

In other words, no there would be no such thing as the internet on any Imperial world. In fact, thinking about it, I'm pretty sure such things would be proscribed by law. It's far too dangerous.

I was also recently thinking about the possibility of a hive-wide / planet-wide 'internet' and in the end came to the conclusion it is fitting for most hives / planets. In my vision most hive cities (mid-hive upwards) have some kind of data network with monochrome (black/green) computer displays (like in Blade Runner). Very archaic and certainly not as sophisticated in a certain sense than nowadays www. So only Lexmechanics and Comptrollers are really able to use most of the (horrendous amount) of data therein. Imagine how much junk data there already is in the todays internet and then imagine how much junk data you probably have to wade through after a couple of millenia...

Btw, in DoW2 one could see some kind of public vox-terminals with monochrome displays in the hive-city levels if zooomed in...

My personal impression is to give most hive-worlds a Dan Abnett'esque amount of high-tech (hidden in as much brass and concrete as possible) as this makes it more believable for most players and gives a better flow of play and playability. There are still enough low-tech (feudal, feral) planets around in most sectors to compensate for that if needed.

I always think of the technology of the Imperium as very advanced, but very unevenly spread. It's the old "third world drug dealer" thing. If you look at the modern world, a powerful drug dealer in a 3rd world failed state may have a powerful laptop, internet access and plasma screens everywhere in his house while outside people starve in the street and live a basically stone age existence.The Imperium's like that.

I'd suggest that the "average" Imperial citizen (if there is such a thing) is EXPOSED to the same amount of technology as we enjoy about 20% of the time, but in very different ways. For example he might use a PC occasionally, but it would be in a Mechanicum shrine when he enters tithing data, or an MP3 player the size of a small house that is shaped like a church organ in his local cathedral.

He is also occasionally (say about 5% of the time) exposed to technology far in excess of our current age (servitors, spacecraft etc)

However, the majority of the time, (75%, say) his interaction with technology is mostly limited to the sort of tech that someone in the early 19th century would have been exposed to: primitive steam engines, large chiming clocks, rickshaws etc.

And all of these would have a 40k spin on them: primitive steam engines controlled by a lobotomised servitor, large chiming clocks on churches that show the orbit of 3 seperate moons, rickshaws pulled by enslaved xenos races...

The other thing to remember is the matter of the interface. In the modern world, consumer technology is intended to be as user-friendly as possible (to an extent)... but that isn't the case in the Imperium. A cogitator unit is almost certainly far more advanced in function than a modern-day supercomputer... but the user interface is extremely primitive, intended as it is to be used only by those sanctioned and trained speciifcally to operate it - the likes of a modern operating system simply don't really exist. This is further compounded by the devices themselves being constructed using millennia-old designs, meaning that using a cogitator is almost like trying to use a top-of-the-line computer where the operating system is a version of DOS programmed in ancient greek.

I'd fully support the general tenor of all the above. I tend to present a 'baseline' of technology that appears massive, cumbersome, ancient and shrouded in superstition and I use self-consciously archaic language to describe it. In reality, however, it is often far advanced beyond 21st century tech. There is a confusing mix of technological levels throughout, however - cogitators powered by watermills, that sort of thing. And the occasional Mechanicus or Archeotech device that is so advanced it seems like magic. The key thing I try to always remember, though, is that technology is universally seen as a religious mystery. Machine spirits must be placated, the Machine God venerated, if devices are to work properly. Tech Priests are priests, and their servitors are liturgical assistants as much as anything else. I have them wafting incense and anointing devices with sacred oils routinely, playing sacred chants over voxes, I had a Magos accompanied by auto-censers that continually sang praises to the Machine God and dispensed clouds of incense. And everyone gets little prayers and invocations ground into them as superstitious rites you must perform when using tech.

RevMark said:

I imagine the followers of Karras, from the Thief video games.

I am a little surprised that so many ppl seem to be having difficulty imagining this. GW has stated and has always stated that the Imperium is a hodge podge, a potpourri of technological levels all mashed together. with these kinds of parameters, what u want to imagine, envision is ur call. it is neither high tech it is not low tech. it is not an all or nothing, black and white call....there are some very very subtle shades of grey at work. the best evidence of this quite simply is the equipment list. u have power swords and melta weapons with flint guns and simple metal edged blades. the very fact that ppl will use swords is pretty indicative of how all encompassing and varied the tech levels are. in our modern world, i have yet to hear of anyone using a sword in combat these days what with all the firepower we have available, which by comparison is meagre compared to what the Imperium has access to.

the same way weapons have this wide range of variation...common sense would dictate that everything across the Imperium has this same concept imbedded into its very fabric of life. microbeads, photo-contacts,data slates and holowafers backed with medieval armour, steam technology, writing kits and quills.

the Imperium is multidimensional in extremes and i think this may be posing a problem for many ppl in grasping the larger picture. i have travelled extensively so i have seen how this works in our modern times. the very poor living in sun baked homes with cell phones and maybe a radio on hand. teeming masses of ppl where cows, goats, rickshaws and modern vehicles jockey for position on roadways. within the same country a family will have anything and everything their hearts may desire with all the tech delights and conveniences it can offer while a mere few blocks away, ppl are crammed in tenements in darkened narrow alleyways trying to scratch out a living for their loved ones. this IS the Imperium but on a microcosmic scale really. know THIS world and u WILL know the Imperium.

the other important factor. the denizens and organizations of the Imperium are NOT all of one mind and body. there is no overriding singular consciousness or mindset. i mention this as being important because this affects the technology we are talking about. one can easily note competition within the Mechanicus. various Forgeworlds have their specialties...items they produce better than others. competing ideals of HOW they worship the Omnissiah will affect how they view technology and how they produce it. a Radical Inquisitor will view technology different from a Puritan potentially but even this is tricky. A puritan might want to kill all muties and heretics but he might happen to like technology and what it offers man. a Radical might want to dabble in warp spawned sorcery but very well have an adverse reaction to high tech items. again the shades of grey. and these shades will assuredly be found all across the worlds of man.

what about the average man? the common Imperial citizen? they'll be just like we are today. just like we have always been. hoping for a better tomorrow. wanting all the fine items that the nobles have. utilizing what we have available for our convenience and ease of life. on feral/feudal worlds they will look at high tech items in wonder and fear and awe. but once they see the power of a melta gun...i can bet u they too will want one barring those cultures that extremely strong warrior traditions and even those will wither away after how many years. we don't see very many indigenous cultures around as much as we used to...there are no longer any knights of old and samurai in any meaningful way.

on hive worlds. the upper class will have access to the wonders. the lower class will have all kinds of their own wonders. prolly lesser in quality but functions about the same.

the Imperium is in many ways our world history and our current state of things.

It's not so much the varying levels of tech, but more the imagery. I mean, why have a supercomputer with reams and reams of paper? It's not just a topic of substance so much as style; I want to properly capture the feel of the game.

why? for the most obvious reason...they are backwards. lol. some places may have some kind of signal beamed to ur data slate, others will be reams and reams of paper. also, i'd reckon it helps support all the copyists one can find in the Imperium. there'd be alot of ppl out of work and ready to commit all manners of heresy if the IoM were to become efficient.

i don't think anyone can answer the question of substance for u as much as u, being the GM and all. make it what u will. once u have set foot in an RPG as GM its urs to do with as u please. u can be stuck to canon or u can bend it to ur will.

cheers

Seeing the approach as backwards is misleading, I think. It's probably closer to the truth to say that the Imperium as a whole is by and large not governed by notions of efficiency, and tends to prefer not to get a machine to do something that a man can do, even if you have to turn him into a servitor first (I've no idea why, but it does seem to be a recogniseable trend). I suspect this is because there is no shortage of labour, individual human lives are not highly valued and there is a liking for doing things on a grand scale. Why did the printing press triumph over scribes when things written on vellum tended to last better and be more aesthetically pleasing? Because they took only a fraction of the time and effort to produce, so you could knock out printed things far faster and in larger quantities without having to employ lots of highly skilled scribes. In the Imperium, you simply give your scribe some tech that enables faster writing and add a couple million more scribes.

Huh, good point, RevMark.

First of all I have a question. What is a Photo-Visor (According to cannon, or your opinion)? The context is Dragon Scale on page 137 of the Inquisitor's Handbook. I'm thinking its either a HUD, or something akin to night vision goggles.

Wheither 'Machine Spirits' are really spirits or not is up to you as the GM. It appears that most on this forum do not believe they are spirits. I have yet to decide weither they will be spirits in my campaign. I have considered the following: That machines do indeed have machine spirits, because over the centuries the worship of machines has created warp-entites that actually might need to be appeased. This would make it so that you might indeed have to do both physical and spiritual matinence. I've also considered that how age of a machine might affect how much the machine spirit (if it is a warp entity) has control over its embodyment (machine). For example the bolter that hits weakenesses the user is unaware of could be: lucky, have a guidence system of some sort, or be affected by a warp entity.

Unless there is an extensive database of the details of everyone, how would the tech priests HUD work on people? I would be able to assist in the analisis of all, but it would be unlikely that it had the background of every person on every planet. Some planets with highly detailed census could support near complete records of all of its citizens, but why would they give these records to tech-priests. Perhaps as some part of an agreement. Reguardless it is up to the gm if all/some techpriests have these HUDs, and how effective they are (and thier game mechanics, if any).

Photo-Visor's strike me as being a combination flare and glare compensation fitted with passive amplification of ambient light sources. They can appear as goggles, spectacles or actual visors.

My personal take on a true machine spirit is that it is an expert system capable of limited reasoning with a predetermined scope. For those who may have played Mass Effect, I liken a machine spirit to the Virtual Intelligences represented in that particular universe. Tentatively, all technology has a limited form of machine spirit; whether it be the power regulatory circuit in a lasguns firing chamber, to the systems which aid in calculating firing solutions for the massive broadsides of a Retribution-class Battleship.

As to the capabilities of the tech-priests visor in question, who knows for sure how that was supposed to work. Archaeotech beyond the understanding of your common man of the imperium.

-=Brother Praetus=-

Magos Militant Jacob said:

Open Dark Heresy to pg 147 and look to the bottem left hand of the page -all your questions regarding Photo-Visors shall be answered there.

That would make sense. Unless photo is used misleadingly this device has something to do with light. It would be highly useful to compensate for light in the battle field.

I have been reading up on various sites about the Tech-Priests religion. The Omnissia might in fact be a C'tan. Is this cannon? I had not understood how convoluted connon can be till I looked further into this forum.

I find the idea of the tech-priests HUD interesting. My main problem with it is I am unsure how it would affect the tech-priests game mechanic wise. For example: A gangster is trying to decieve a tech-priest as to his past so that he can buy otherwise regulated equipment. Unless he pulls off a magnificent disguise (perhaps even surgically modifiing his body) the HUD show his real history.

Graver said:

Will do ASAP. Thanks.

I must have skimmed through that section 15 times looking for that item. I have no idea how I missed it. Oh well. Thank you.

The Dragon (a sleeping C'Tan) is buried beneath Olympus Mons on Mars, and may or may not be the Omnissiah (or both at the same time), according to interpretation.

Jack of Tears said:

It depends on where in the galaxy you are. I mean, head on to Africa, and basic technology we take for granted here isnt even reliably in place for some areas, such as proper wells and the like. And thats on the same planet.

Because technology is such a close guarded secret, it becomes very regional. One person can make something, but they wont tell anyone else how to, so unless someone has figured out how to fix it or rebuild it, it will eventually go away.

TalkingMuffin said:

Ever have something just not work for you, and then someone else walks over and does the same thing you did, but it works? Thats what that talent is in my mind.

Varius said:

Yes I have and it makes me want to punch them in the sack!

I think, in addition to most of what's been said above, you have to get into a totally different mindset with the 40Kverse. In controling vast populations, you want them stupid and absolutely believing - you need to destroy any sense of logical causality for that to work and it does.

Since simple machines embody causality, you need to replace an understanding of obvious mechanical processes with ritual divorced from the mechanical underpinnings. So lubricants are sacred unguents etc. I think most 40K folks simply wouldn't have the mental tools to see a field-stripped semi-auto pistol and understand what all those bits actually do. Of course they could - such things are hardwired into humans - but are under such a weight of indoctrination that most wouldn't.

Anyone trying to understand what an autoquill actually is or what form a Panoptic pistol would take is being too now, not 'then'. Of course we need to be able to suspend disbelief but:-

Again anathema to our Modernist mindset is that in the 40Kverse, faith empirically works. This is well demonstrated by Orks and Battle Sisters. So if mass belief can create deities then it can do something as trivial as make weapons work - a Tech-Priest probably could just wave his hand over a purely mechanical gun and it would unjam because of this.

Any game I run will have any quality of Bolt Weapon awarded to a Battle Sister automatically go up a grade just because to her it's utterly sacred and her faith will make it so... that, to me is an important part of 40K tech. [Though I'm a product of my time/culture like everyone and I reckon Sacred Machine Oil has got short-duration nanobots in it....]

I love the mere thought that somewhere on Mar's and Terra's surface lies old terminal interfaces that display in either English, Chinese, or Japanese runes requesting search inquries to blueprints, factory requests, and/or history files and patiently awaits data requests...