I'm trying to get a grasp on the day-to-day tech of the Imperium. I realize that much of it depends on the planet, but I'm referring to the highest levels of technology. For example, is there an Internet? PDAs and VR/AR devices? How does one (besides and Astropath) send messages in-system? Are there sattelites? GPS devices? Photocopiers (if so, what's an Autoquill for?). I want to capture the feel of the game properly, so any help is appreciated. I've watched Mutant Chronicles twice since it's well, Mutant Chronicles. But it also seems to have a little bit of that gritty, 40K feel.

So you know, I am reading the Eisenhorn Trilogy (freaking AWESOME so far!), but once I got the pheremone-hunting message drone, I got to thinking, "What else is there?"

Also, I was skimming my core book and came across a Talent where a Tech-priest can wave his hand an unjam firearms. Am I correct in thinking that there are actual machine spirits? I thought it was figurative and pure propaganda. if not, that's cool!

I so like learning about the 40K universe!

I tend to go by the Eisenhorn Trilogy for the most advanced parts of the Imperium. When my Acolytes do go the Spires of Malfi, for example, they will find pheremone hunting messenger drones and jetbikes aplenty. Right now, they are hanging around the impoverished backwaters of the Imperium (the Coscarla Division, The Scintillian Underhive, The Gorgonid Mines).

OK, so reading that book's a good start. Sweet! Would a planet with uber-tech have Internet-like communications? If so, why use pheremone messengers? Do people trade vox-numbers? I would assume that the upper class would want some semblance of consistent tech for interacting with each other. I don't want to over-think this, but I'd like to have solid footing, you know?

Also, what's a "pict-plate", in reference to Lowick using one to capture a person's image from a psychic reading, Is it a psyker-only device?

Keep in mind that a lot of 40k tech is just modern technology with a weird name.

Pict plate = Film.

Pict stealer =Camera

Vicorder = Video camera

Vidscreen = either a TV set or a computer monitor

ETC.

However, no internet, at least not as we understand it today. The most high tech installations may have an intranet-like setup, but these are exceedingly rare and their construction and use are a closely guarded secret of the Adeptus Mechanicus. For the most part information storage and retrieval is handled the old-fasioned way with vast libraries of ancient and moldering scrolls and manuscripts. In fact, this is one of the most ubiquitous images in the 41st millenium.

Torque2100 said:

Thanks! This imagery is one of the reason's I've fallen in love with 40K.

The 'obvious' bits of the Dark Millenium's technology are essentially easy to describe:

- Medicine & Biology. It's ruddy brilliant. It's expensive, of course, but then the Imperium has massive resources so...nevermind. Technical neuroscience is extremely advanced, they can plug anything into any part of the brain. Well, not quite. If you advance brain-tech, pharmacology, electronics and computer power but without enhancing the sort of psychology and social science side of it you have an idea. They don't know how to control populations, but the best educated (i.e. were afforded access to the most advanced tech) can plug allsorts into the brain. Vaccines, virus, bacteria, genetic manipulation...they have the technology for how to physicaly do all of that stuff but there is a dearth in the information as to what it does, and why one might want to do it. Whilst we can consider designed babies and optimised offspring, this might or might not be prevalent. Vat-grown (e.g. testtube) people are commonplace on forgeworlds. Cloning is always a failure (duplication of souls) in that 'something horrible' goes wrong, as if the universe itself merely wanted to forbid it.

- PDAs, Blackberries, internet, photocopiers...yep. I'd say they've got the lot. It's tiered and wonky. It's not like our society, but technologically I'd say they have stuff like that. The data slates, autoquills are all remarkable outlets for this sort of thing. The Imperium has advanced technology, but it isn't consolidated and it isn't uniform. It's...delightful.

- Direct interface with machines is possible. AI's (heretical, though, in their human-mimicking forms) and not-completely-dumb servitors are possible. Lasers, sure. iPods? Don't see why not. 3D printers? Yep, I don't see an issue there. Highly automated factories? Again, no issue.

- Interplanetary comms? Lasers, message boats, EM broadcasts etc. Feel free to go slightly SF here, I certainly do. It might be a sort of 'future fantasy', but pulling out some good old SF ideas is highly recommended.

The trick, I find, is in maintaining a division between the 'yep it's futuristic!' and the mere transplantation of ideas and situations. It's difficult to judge, but a few authors manage it rather well. Abnett's Titanicus and McNeil's Mechanicum succeed well here (though I find them poor in their other novels, Eisenhorn included). The Shira Calpurnia books ( Crossfire , Legacy and Blind ) are excellent here, though harder to get a hold of.

Mechanicum and Titanicus both present the existence of multiple Mechanicus centered data networks.

Internet exists but only in close sector with a censoring making china looking well and open, since the internet is proberly the very best way to spread heresy and schimals(those forge world viruses that take over all computers), so it might be considered to dangerous or only avaliable in the upper hive.

Talking "internet"; I expect some kind of "Info-Network" to exist inside hives and similiar advanced places, but with very strict control on who is able to "publish".

In addition, I expect something like "eMail" to be available. But more along the line of very "close-circle" systems, provided by certain guilds or as a system of a certain organization (like "Adeptus Arbites Network")

In my mind, an Autoquill had a small microphone built into it, you spoke and the autoquill wrote, I never found an exact definition, but that's what I got for it ^^

TalkingMuffin said:

Depending on what you're looking at, machine spirits are variously real and imaginary...

In the majority of cases, and at the crudest, most superstitious level, a machine's spirit is a personification of its function, requirement for maintenance, and tendancy to malfunction. At it's core, imagine it like getting angry or frustrated with your car or computer when it performs contrary to your wishes, or viewing an object as 'lucky', only taken to an extreme and used as a means of conveying practical information about machines without revealing technical 'secrets'. The 'proper rituals' for pleasing, say, the spirit of a lasgun are actually nothing more or less than cleaning it, generally done with some form of ritual speech (which in itself may well be a means of remembering the correct way to do things). Those rituals are, really, no different to fixing something using the instructions - you don't necessarily know why that method works, you just know it does. A Guardsman cleans his lasgun according to the rituals he's learnt, and it works properly when he wants to use it... if he doesn't, it might fail on him, displeased by his laxity.

Different machines are viewed as having different personalities and inclinations - again, this is only natural, as differences will creep into a machine's function both due to variances in how it was made, and accumulating over time due to mainenance and use. My computer works slightly differently to your computer because it's made of different components and will, over time, have accumulated all sorts of tiny scraps of program and mechanical quirks that make it 'behave' in subtly different ways. This applies as much to broad makes of machine (Arvus-class cargo shuttles are considered stubborn, often uncooperative, but sturdy and reliable machines), as to individual items (Brother Marius' bolter has acquired a reputation for reliability and uncanny accuracy compared to other bolters, striking at weak spots that Marius himself had been unable to discern).

At the other end of the scale, some sophisticated machines have actual Machine Spirits. Land Raiders, Thunderhawk Gunships, Starships and Titans are the best-known examples of such machines, and their Machine Spirits are somewhere between an onboard computer and a simple, almost animalistic brain that assists the operator in controlling the machine. Warhound Scout Titans, for example, are considered to be quite eager and vicious machines, and while the instinctive responses of the Titan's Machine Spirit are useful to its Princeps (Titan pilot/commander) in the heat of battle, he must control its aggression so that it doesn't overwhelm him or drive the Titan out of control. Just as figurative machine spirits are said to gain individual natures as time passes, so too do true Machine Spirits evolve and develop a semblance of personality - often imprinted from a succession of previous operators, as many Machine Spirit assisted machines interface directly with an operator's central nervous system through a Mind Impulse Unit. As machines of this sort are often centuries or millennia old, their legacies and natures are often quite distinct, having seen hundreds or thousands of uses and maintenance cycles and as many different operators.

cyclocius said:

Why not use a dictation program and printer? I just want to capture the look and feel and make it sensible, you know? All of your advice has been helpful and I appreciate it.

N0-1_H3r3, that was a very cool and most helpful explanation. Thanks!

Crap. I wish there was an editor. *G* One thing about interplanetary communication: Do you need an Astropath, or is that just the most common and "easiest" way? I can see in-system vox-links, but to maintain satellites and the like when you have psykers may not be worth it.

One thing I'm trying to keep in mind is that although certain tech might make more "sense", it may just not be acceptable in the Imperium as a whole, either fiscally or practically. Datawebs might be very exclusive to prevent data-piracy and the like. The 41st Millennium is rife with paranoia and having a massive network linking everyone risks (as previously noted) heretical ideas as well as a potential loss of very sensitive material that just cannot fall into enemy hands.

Random thought: Natassia Malthe's very hot!

TalkingMuffin said:

Planets within the same solar system might communicate this way, but as soon as it comes to "inter stellar" I think the Astropaths are the only way of communication. As far as I remember, the "fluff" kinda backs this view up: the description of "what is a psyker?" always seems to strecht the "no-interstellar-communiction-without-psykers"-thing

Gregorius21778 said:

There's always the option of doing it "Tau Style"; e.g. by pony mail. You actually fly a very fast ship to the person and deliver the message that way. IIRC this method is used Imperially in Grey Knights , with the Ordo Malleus having a rather nifty two-person (navigator + pilot/messenger) dartship being a class of the Imperium's fastest ships.

The Tau are restricted to this method because of their lack of astrotelepathy: actually flying the message there is the fastest they can do.

Something I have noticed is an occasional inconsistency in the tech quality through some stories - even by the same author. Throughout most of Eisenhorn you get the impression that the majority of science is large and unwieldy, antique in its design and almost ponderously impressive. Then along comes a story where a desk has heat sensitive, invisible, gene coded keys, and a holographic display ... or a palm sized robot that can search a large crime scene and record every kind of chemical or poison in the viscinity. (which I don't buy; I mean how do you fit a skull on a palm sized gadget?)

These latter too seemed far too sci-fi sleek for the 40k universe. So you have to ask - which is it? Antiquated and cumbersome, with a gears and cogs kind of steam punkish feel, or a galaxy where tiny, complex, mechanical divices can be whipped out to solve your daily needs? I tend to err toward the former.

Is it possible to make a form for servitor psyker, that can communicate with similar servitor psykers in a "close" range (a few light years)?

In all the things I’ve read, and I’m pretty familiar with the 40k universe, I don’t recall there being anything that resembles the internet we have today. I’m sure the technology exists for planet-wide or even system wide internet but I would suspect those responsible for putting such a system in place would see it as far more a burden than an asset.

The 40k universe is very feudal in nature and when the “peasants” have the ability to exchange information things get very difficult on the ruling class. It’s much better, in their view, to keep their planetary populations in the dark.

The most advanced worlds in the universe probably wouldn’t have it either. In a universe where rogue human psychers run rampant and Eldar psychers can wield unparalleled power, chaos daemons and traitor legions sew sedition, Necrons and Tau possess technology beyond the wildest dreams of most of the Imperium – the internet is probably viewed as too much of a liability.

I guess you have to take a very cynical view of the ruling class of the 41st millennium. Take a look at what the internet does today and ask yourself, ‘would a planetary lord view this as an asset and, if so, would the Imperium as a whole feel the same way and allow that ruler to implement such a thing?'

TalkingMuffin said:

Because dictation programs are sooooo 2nd millenia!

Sarius said:

1) A servitor has human derived brain matter programmed, usually by electrografts, for specific tasks. There's no indication that you can electrograft Sanctioning or Soul bonding skills, so probably not. You could possibly brain in a jar or vat psyker the job.

2) Only extraordinary psykers can do FTL communication. Soul bonded Astropaths and Librariums, whose superhuman bodies can take the stress, are the only ones who do so as a class of beings.

As for the quality of the tech, it depends on where you're getting your tech from and how much you're willing to pay. The IoM regularly produces contact lense sized night vision devices and button sized communicators in vast numbers, because they're handy. Given their desire to control the spread of knowledge, really cool laptops aren't going to be a production priority, although tech priests can get hardwired with all sorts of stuff including nanotech repair systems and minicomputers that duplicate the functions of part of their brains. Social control and military production priorities are reflected in their high technology and that's as important as the limitations of the local tech base.

the technology of the Imperium is extremely varied. it can be what u want it to be, it's your campaign. just keep in mind a kind of hodge podge of mixed tech levels that can be found on a singular planet, with in system and across the breadth and depth of the Imperium and u will be fine.

the only real worthwhile limitations is on A. FTL travel and comms. the usage of the WARP as a travel medium, the Astronomican as a navigational aid and the Astropathica as the mode of comms between systems and farther. anything else really is just what you as the GM wish it to be.

i think folks sometimes have to take a few steps back and look at this objectively and not rely solely on GW canon for their ideas of inspiration or detail. if the Imperium were to grow as described with colonies lost for thousands of years, with warp storms, with planets not traded with because of long routes..whatever. it stands to reason that there are potentially hyper advanced worlds out there that maintained tech levels or became even more advanced without the 'care and minding' of the Imperium watchdogs. if there can be worlds that have fallen apart, there can be worlds that have grown. the dark age of technology can only fall upon worlds where the Imperium had reach and grasp. even elements within the mechanicus, such a world would be seen as way too vital to destroy out of hand. what with all the reminders of 'the good old days' of tech alive and well. the idea of lost STC is kept alive because of the assumption that all human worlds fell into disrepair and went to naught, which considering real human nature is ridiculous in the extreme. the same way we have accelerated this world tech over the past 10K years i'm sure some other human civilization would also have done the same with a bigger leg up than the one we have had.

another factor of thought that ppl of canon seems to have missed. the days of the Emperor was not 2009. it was quite some time away from how we live currently . those tech levels would have made what we have today, look the difference between a microwave and rubbing 2 sticks to start a fire..what that would truly look like? who knows? so we use analogs of the internet and laser pens, PDAs and laptops, and all sorts of very current things to describe that time and the times beyond. it seems funny to me that ppl in the 20th millenium would have even thought to incorporate a steam engine in an STC or any pre 20th century tech in it. they probbaly would have no idea what that even was. i mean...would you? much less 20K years later?

the point essentially is the tech can look like whatever you want it to be. don't get caught up in ppls perceptions and interpretations of GW canon. even they are all over the place with it. the real limits are on FTL travel and comms. and keep in mind that barring worlds where high tech is available those worlds will be very few and very far inbetween. on the vast majority of worlds, the wealthy will have access to all the real goodies..the poorer u are the less you will have access to. and even that is relative. think of the very world you live in. not everyone here has access to the same level of tech goodies. even within a country. some countries are poorer than others. understand this and the Imperium at large is a cakewalk.

cheers

Hi there,

Just to comment on the 'internet in the imperium' stuff - one of Abnetts most recent books, Titanicus, goes into a lot of depth regarding the Adeptus Mechanus and their literally different view of the world. For a start, most Mechanus would seem to have a implant which allows them access to a HUD type holographic interface and labeling system that overlays their normal vision, allowing them to send messages to each other, read other adepts bios, etc. It also seems that every item with a machine spirit also has a presence in this overlay of the real world.

The funny part of this is that it could be the entire reason the Mechanus are to tacturn and anti social - they are used to being able to know peoples names, titles, abilities, certificates etc... just by looking at them.

Given that this level of tech is available on one forge world, I'm sure there are similar systems on other suitably high tech worlds.

As an aside, the best view of imperial tech I have seen is another abnett book, in the ghosts series. the Ghosts are sent to help out a Imperial world slugging it out in a chaos civil war. The locals have bolt action rifles and the whole thing is very WW1 - trenches, artillery, gas, etc. Then along comes the 'lowly' Imperial Guard... with their personal energy weapons, high tech body armour, person to person comms, advanced medicine, advanced rations.... and you suddenly realise that maybe the Guard ain't as hard done to as you used to think. But then one minute you might be on a feral world where the locals live in caves, then to a victorian era world with steam trains and muskets, then a high tech hive world with vid screens, personal comms, implanted ID chips etc.

Jack of Tears said:

Both and neither.

At the most sophisticated levels, technology in the Imperium can be as small as is practical - with complex electronics supplanted by "stacked atomic chains", which render the actual functional components so small as to be impractical for a human to operate without up-scaling it. At the other end of the scale, you have factories the size of continents...

It all depends on the location, and the context, really. Indeed, a machine might well be immense and impressive solely for the sake of being immense and impressive, when the actual working parts could fit in a match box - like building a new PC case the size of a house, entirely constructed from brass and granite... horribly impractical, but certainly a lot more impressive than a box that sits on your desk.

Alternately, the workings of a device might be concealed within something else entirely, invisible to the naked eye (consider the electoo inductors of a Tech-Priest - that's high-capacity circuitry with an effective mass about the same as a mundant ink-under-the-skin tattoo, capable of generating electromagnetic fields potent enough to influence objects several metres away), operated by methods quite different to the keyboards and remote controls and touch-screens and levers and buttons we're familiar with (again, looking to the Mechanicus, data-networks on Forge Worlds accessible only through a wired data-port linked to the back of the skull, or even to a wireless transmitter/reciever build into a Techpriest's cranial implants - no keyboards or consoles in sight, just austere steel-clad rooms and techpriests staring at streams of binary information only they can see...)

Overall, the trick with the technology of the Imperium is to make it anachronistic and eclectic, scattering high-tech and low-tech solutions to problems almost randomly. The people of the Imperium are generally quite reluctant to rely too heavily on technological solutions (hive worlders, who're surrounded by technology all the time as they grow up, would have a level of technological familiarity approaching ours, and those born on Forgeworlds are even more tech-savvy, but most Imperial citizens would likely be quite technophobic when it came to anything particularly complicated), so even where tiny, complex devices exist, most people won't necessarily consider such options as readily as we perhaps might.

Also, I was skimming my core book and came across a Talent where a Tech-priest can wave his hand an unjam firearms. Am I correct in thinking that there are actual machine spirits? I thought it was figurative and pure propaganda. if not, that's cool!

That's a tricky one. There definitely are machines with what we today would call expert systems - one of the best examples would be the Land Raider tank used by space marine orders which can drive itself should the crew get knocked out. However, this is merely the expert system being called a machine spirit. More primitive items generally have no explanation for the machine sprit concept. I personally assume that apart from such exceptions, the spirit does not exist and the talent works by some high-tech implants of the techpriest. After all, somewhen in the 23 millenia between M2 and M25 (end of the age of technology) someone might have developed a way to unjam guns from a distance.

Cifer said:

Given that the ability in question relies on the Tech-Priest's electoo inductors and potentia coil, it seems entirely likely that it's really not much more than a matter of applying electromagnetic fields to manipulate distant machines...