But I don't see 60% greater value...enough for ME to guarantee I will pop in and buy two core sets on release.

60% of $40 is $24.

Or 60% of $100 is $60 which is the price difference. So how ever you want to try and do the math, if it is Armada costing 250% of X-wing; or X-Wing costs 40% of Armada ergo that game should contains 60% greater value---The bottom line is Armada is expensive and I do not see the greater cost represented in the gameplay and box content.

Oh, and you can't do basic applied math.

But this is great, I will now say Armada clearly isn't worth 250% of X-Wing because that number gets attention.

60% greater than 40 is 64. 60% less than 100 is 40. I can't help it math works differently than you think it does.

However, you are correct that 100 is 250% as much as 40*, so yes, you should probably stick with that explanation.

*Not to be confused with 250% more, which would be 140.

What I was originally saying, is once Armada is hypothetically opened, and I were to look at all the contents...I would probably react noticing, "Huh, it seems like I am not getting a full $100 value here. I paid less than half is this for X-Wing (40%) and with Armada...I don't see the value of that extra $60 I spent (60%) represented in the box content." I don't see that value now, therefore, I will not jump in and buy two core sets.

Dollar for dollar, X-Wing has amazing value.

I don't see that value now, therefore, I will not jump in and buy two core sets.

The value is there if you consider the likely price of the expansions that come with the core set. That said, I won't be buying two core sets either.

I just don't see the same usefulness of multiple ships like you do with X-Wing. I have 8 Ties, but I can't see ever needing or wanting 8 CR-90's for Armada.

This is why I need to avoid this game. Because two Imperial II Destroyers and three Victory Class and an Interdictor would bee so rad. But too expensive.

Because two Imperial II Destroyers and three Victory Class and an Interdictor would bee so rad. But too expensive.

I fully plan on having a collection not much larger then 10-12 models.

Once upon a time, $100 bucks netted 84 figures.

In 1990 perhaps you could get that many for that price...

He's talking about WotC's Star Wars Miniatures (possibly their Starship Battles game, specifically) - I remember him from those forums.

What he's leaving out is that those models were nowhere near the quality of the FFG stuff, not to mention that game was blind-buy, and didn't involve the kind of components this game will.

That, and the general increase plastic figures are costing. Though, I look at Wizkid's "quality", and it really is a bit sickening.

Sails of Glory was something like $90 I believe, and ships go anywhere from $15 to $25.

Not really seeing a difference. I'll just have to use my finances wisely and not overbuy. Luxury hobbies are expensive, no matter what they are. We all knew this when we decided to play. I think ultimately the decision is your own if you want to pay $100 to buy in. If not, then I do think that complaint threads are a waste of your valuable time.

And yet, the turnouts for Regionals have exceeded what many of the WOTC miniatures games could ever have done.

HeroClix is king because it is cheap.

I cite the Regionals turnouts because that is the hardcore, due to the geographical differences and cost of travel. A small sample of the true size of X-wing's playerbase. Especially when there isn't much financial incentive for the Regionals. Do you honestly think the SWM would've EVER been able to fill up one 128 player tournament at Gencon, let alone 2??? If there are that many people in the hardcore tournament players, how many are there that are more casual and home table players?

And with all games, it is regional. Some places will have a large group of players to get together, where it will be another game the next town over. If you have no one to play with, that's fine. But you don't have the type of success X-wing had without having a good amount of people buying.

As for Heroclix being cheap. At what point does that offset releases being accelerated to ludicrous speed.

If you have no one to play with, that's fine. But you don't have the type of success X-wing had without having a good amount of people buying.

Fine for you, you mean, since you apparently have a venue with a decent number of players. Like it or not I have a legitimate complaint, as does anyone in any community who would like to play but cannot because the cost barrier keeps other people from being interested.

I have a legitimate complaint, as does anyone in any community who would like to play but cannot because the cost barrier keeps other people from being interested.

No you really don't have one. The price is the price, FFG sets the price based on cost to produce the product. They naturally set the price as low as they can for starter sets, because selling starter sets means people buying expansions which have a higher profit margin.

The fact that so few people in your area are interested in X-Wing which is dirt cheap compared to every other game out there... Doesn't mean that Armada is priced out of their reach, rather that they just aren't interested in these games.

If you have no one to play with, that's fine. But you don't have the type of success X-wing had without having a good amount of people buying.

Fine for you, you mean, since you apparently have a venue with a decent number of players. Like it or not I have a legitimate complaint, as does anyone in any community who would like to play but cannot because the cost barrier keeps other people from being interested.

Once you have a starter set, your friends only have to buy expansions.

It's how I got at least two people roped into X-wing.

Here's the price for the core set models as I figure it.

Figure the VSD is going to be at least the same size as the Large X-Wing ships, like say 5-6 inches. That put's it at $30-40. Neb looks to be half as big or more. That puts it at 2.5-3 inches long. So figure $20 for that. Y and B's are 2 so $20 seems fair.

The Vette would be smaller so small ship sized, so $15.

Now lets be conservative and call the fighters $2.50 per stand, with 10 of those, that's $25 worth, so...

VSD = $30-40

Neb B = $20

Vette = $15

Fighters = $25

Total in models = $90 - 100

Yeah this stater is soooo over priced.

You manipulated the dollar values to make your point. You have no idea what it actually cost. It's more likely the cost to produce this product is about $25-35, including license fees. Then you figure 50-75 percent mark-up for profit, which puts the price to sell to a retail store somewhere around $50-60. Then to get MSRP you add another 50-75 percent because the store needs to make a profit too.

Even at those amounts, $100 is still over the top, which means they are working with higher percentages. I'd say their costs are higher, but the fighters aren't painted so realistically it's not more than $40 for a box set.

Until people start to get hands on with this kit I don't agree that it can be called expensive or overpriced. You may feel that it is more expensive than you would like and that it will act as a barrier for people to play the game which is unfortunate. However if the quality is high then the price point may be entirely warranted.

Based on my experience with X-Wing I have never felt gouged by pricing, the epic ships were not particularly cheap but they are a luxury item in a luxury hobby and I feel I got value for my money.

I am happy to pay the currently listed RRP if the quality of the components that are provided matches X-Wing. I would rather pay the $100 and get a high quality product that will receive ongoing support from FFG than receive either a lower quality product or a product that loses support from FFG as an unprofitable line.

I'm thinking he was guessing at a MSRP of the miniatures. I do suspect that the Corvette and Frigate are X-wing sized, so $15 MSRP. Which would put the Destroyer at the Falcon price point, or $30. So, 60% of the MSRP covered already by those three models. I can easily see where $100 comes from. Especially when I look at their mini's only expansion for Descent.

You manipulated the dollar values to make your point. You have no idea what it actually cost.

You say this, then go on to say I'm wrong and list what the prices will be. I at least based my values on existing products and simple logic, rather then grabbing a number to make a point.

The VSD is clearly about the size of the other Large X-Wing ships, perhaps a bit bigger, so $30-40. The other ships are Small ship size or bigger. The Neb is about half the size of the VSD based on the image of the box, so it's going to be at least $15 if not 20. The Vette then would be $15 or the same price as the small ships.

Then you have to figure the cost of the Fighter squads.

Nothing FFG has ever released would indicate they gouge people on starter sets, in fact it's quite the opposite. Yet they release this one and people start making up stuff in the attempt to claim this one product is over priced... The whole point of a starter set is to get people into the game for as little as possible. A successful company like FFG isn't going to price people out of the game if they can avoid it, so to try and claim that they've over priced this game... Well it starts to sound like paranoid delusion to be honest.

If you have no one to play with, that's fine. But you don't have the type of success X-wing had without having a good amount of people buying.

Fine for you, you mean, since you apparently have a venue with a decent number of players. Like it or not I have a legitimate complaint, as does anyone in any community who would like to play but cannot because the cost barrier keeps other people from being interested.

No, you don't. Companies have no ethical or moral obligation to always make their products fit within any given customers price range. Hot Toys is not a bad company for making 500$ Darth Vader action figures, no matter how much I want one. People who CAN afford those things should have things made in that price range. You have no right to a product you can afford.

Now if instead you had said, "I am concerned that FFG has made the game so expensive that it will not do well, and will thus not run as long or see as many expansions as I could, and I wont be able to find people to play with", THAT would be a legitimate concern. The success of the game they are going to buy is a valid concern of players in regards to a company, because it affects the long term value of something you have purchased. But being able to afford something in the first place really isn't. It stinks when you can't afford something you want, but that really isn't the companies fault or problem.

Here's the price for the core set models as I figure it.

Figure the VSD is going to be at least the same size as the Large X-Wing ships, like say 5-6 inches. That put's it at $30-40. Neb looks to be half as big or more. That puts it at 2.5-3 inches long. So figure $20 for that. Y and B's are 2 so $20 seems fair.

The Vette would be smaller so small ship sized, so $15.

Now lets be conservative and call the fighters $2.50 per stand, with 10 of those, that's $25 worth, so...

VSD = $30-40

Neb B = $20

Vette = $15

Fighters = $25

Total in models = $90 - 100

Yeah this stater is soooo over priced.

You manipulated the dollar values to make your point. You have no idea what it actually cost. It's more likely the cost to produce this product is about $25-35, including license fees. Then you figure 50-75 percent mark-up for profit, which puts the price to sell to a retail store somewhere around $50-60. Then to get MSRP you add another 50-75 percent because the store needs to make a profit too.

Even at those amounts, $100 is still over the top, which means they are working with higher percentages. I'd say their costs are higher, but the fighters aren't painted so realistically it's not more than $40 for a box set.

Regardless, there is more evidence to suggest that the product is priced fairly than not. FFG has historically released starter sets and products in general at very fair price points. And it's fairly easy to look at what is in the box and build an argument for why it might cost as much as it does. There is very little evidence to suggest it is overpriced.

That being said, 100$ IS a lot for a starter set (it may be fair, but it is also a lot). It's possible that no matter how fair the price is that the market will not bear the cost of such a large, complex, high quality game. They could have made the mini's out of solid gold and sold it for 1000$ and the price would be more than fair, but it wouldn't be successful. That is a valid concern. Perhaps they should have made a less ambitious game. We wont know that until it comes out, but it's a valid concern.

My feeling is that interest in the game is strong enough that 100$ is not more than the market will bear. I'm glad they made it the way they did, but I can see that it may be beyond what most people can afford, and that may hurt the overall success of the game, which in turn hurts my investment in the game. For now though I will trust in FFGs market research department and design team.

I know it's a different game but their game twilight emperium costs the same and you get a TON on things with it.

Plastic pieces, cards, tokens.

The box is heavy and huge.

I wonder in comparison to that of it is a fair value

I feel lucky that I am coming up to middle gain, close to my max earnings and am a cheap ass when it comes to non-fun-star wars stuff like cars, clothes and other junk some people tend to waste their money on.

Instead I can spend pretty much what ever I want at cool stuff inc.

I know it's a different game but their game twilight emperium costs the same and you get a TON on things with it.

Plastic pieces, cards, tokens.

The box is heavy and huge.

I wonder in comparison to that of it is a fair value

omg the "game" addict in our group keeps threatening to get that game but we can hardly make it through one game of eclipse in a night. Never mind the Emperium where you have to bring a sleeping bag and prepay your mortgage.

I know it's a different game but their game twilight emperium costs the same and you get a TON on things with it.

Plastic pieces, cards, tokens.

The box is heavy and huge.

I wonder in comparison to that of it is a fair value

Ehh, plastic, single-color unpainted models with limited detail. probably all from the same cast.

It looks good on a board game, which is what they were designed for, but they're miles away from being halfway decent miniatures.

Game's awesome though. Start at eleven in the morning, end at nine, maybe ten in the night.

I know it's a different game but their game twilight emperium costs the same and you get a TON on things with it.

Plastic pieces, cards, tokens.

The box is heavy and huge.

I wonder in comparison to that of it is a fair value

omg the "game" addict in our group keeps threatening to get that game but we can hardly make it through one game of eclipse in a night. Never mind the Emperium where you have to bring a sleeping bag and prepay your mortgage.

I don't think it's that bad

We can finish a four player game in under 5 hours

I know it's a different game but their game twilight emperium costs the same and you get a TON on things with it.

Plastic pieces, cards, tokens.

The box is heavy and huge.

I wonder in comparison to that of it is a fair value

Ehh, plastic, single-color unpainted models with limited detail. probably all from the same cast.

It looks good on a board game, which is what they were designed for, but they're miles away from being halfway decent miniatures.

Game's awesome though. Start at eleven in the morning, end at nine, maybe ten in the night.

What he said. Board game miniatures are a whole other ball game from miniature wargame miniatures. Tokens and cards are all cut with the same die and just have different stickers or paints applied.

On top of that this game has a bunch of unique pieces that are going to require custom tooling. The bases, the movement jig, the command container, and even the fighter squadrons and their stands are all very unique pieces that really can't be re-used in other games.

I'm not worried about the price. $100 for a starter miniatures game is completely in-line with the other starter games out there, Games Workshop notwithstanding. The new Battletech, Warmahordes, and others all weigh in at $100. Of course, demand for X-wing is overwhelming. Between now and January, I'll set aside $20 per month and I'll be good.

Oh who am I kidding... I'll likely buy 2 sets...

Okay Mr.smarty you just keep on making reasonable and intelligent comments because you have to be a trouble maker... don't cha!

I held back $50 my self... this month.