By the way, given that my general opinion of the graphic novels is that they we're a haphazard free-for-all, I have no qualms about seeing things like the Eclipse get the axe.

What about Crimson Empire?? You can't say that graphic novel was bad.

Well, I could say it, but I would just be bloviating if I did. I haven't read it.

My reaction is comes from my attempts to understand the SWU for roleplaying purposes. When I find the most loosy-goosy stuff that just doesn't fit with most other sources, it's usually coming out of graphic novel sources. That, or just material that doesn't 'fit' in my mind, but I'll own that YMMV on that count.

What makes Crimson Empire good? Does it work in terms of meshing with other established material in building the gameworld, or does it mostly work on entertaining you with its other virtues?

Nah, you're right on the money. The graphic novels play it fast and loose.

They're awesome for enough reasons that we don't squint too closely at the discrepancies.

At the end of the day they're no worse than the originals.

By the way, given that my general opinion of the graphic novels is that they we're a haphazard free-for-all, I have no qualms about seeing things like the Eclipse get the axe.

What about Crimson Empire?? You can't say that graphic novel was bad.

Well, I could say it, but I would just be bloviating if I did. I haven't read it.

My reaction is comes from my attempts to understand the SWU for roleplaying purposes. When I find the most loosy-goosy stuff that just doesn't fit with most other sources, it's usually coming out of graphic novel sources. That, or just material that doesn't 'fit' in my mind, but I'll own that YMMV on that count.

What makes Crimson Empire good? Does it work in terms of meshing with other established material in building the gameworld, or does it mostly work on entertaining you with its other virtues?

Crimson Empire meshes very well with he other material and actually manages to halfway salvage the abomination that was Dark Empire. It follows an Imperial Royal Guardsman in his personal quest for vengeance against the people responsible for the death of his master Emperor Palpatine (it starts with a vendetta against Skywalker, but ends up also including various traitorous Imperials who collaborated in tampering with the Emperor's final clone body). It is very good and Imperial.

oh god no.

also the Eclipse is suppose to be close to the length of the Executor-Class super star Destroyer. That would be bad enough. and if scaled could be around 8 feet long!

I could see it as a playmat tho... "Hey lets play with the Executor in the background"

By the diagram provided at the top of this thread.. the Eclipse is twice the size of the Executor..

Someone in some thread pointed out that the eclipse length was retconned at some point to be slightly less than the executor.

Ah, there it is. In post 4 of this thread.

No reference for it though, do we just take his word for it.. personally I don't think either one will be made..

I can't imagine that they won't do the Executor at some point. I'd imagine the Viscount for the rebel pairing. The eclipse might be a step too far....

I'll be interested to see what happens wrt the legends stuff - after all, is the Victory-class destroyer not theoretically 'legends' itself? All the ones on screen are Imperial-class, aren't they?

While they threw out the stories LSG (Lucasfilm Story Group) said they were going to cherry-pick the good parts of the EU to reuse: for example Sienar and the ISB survive into Rebels. My expectation is the fast majority of stuff , if not the stories behind it, will live on with only the ludicrous things like the Galaxy Gun and Sun Crusher being expunged. Does the Eclipse fall into that? I think it's just about borderline plausible that it could survive, even if in a state where the Empire never finish it. The Z-95 and the Victory-class Star Destroyer however are by far some of the most sensible parts of EU and I've little doubt they'll survive.

And now Disney has retconned the Eclipse completely out of existence. Not that this has stopped FFG from depicting other ships from the now "legendary" EU.

Like anyone gives a **** what Disney retcons

Cannot like this post enough....need to make more forum accounts i guess :-P

For a reference on size there was a good orange covered book i can't quite remember the title, A guide to the vessels and vehicles of the star wars universe. From around 1993-5 ish??

Something like that, my copy is long lost sadly.

Star Wars: The Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels

I wonder how hard it would be to hunt down a copy of this old book....

I wonder how hard it would be to hunt down a copy of this old book....

Crazy easy, found a copy on eBay for $4.50

I wonder how hard it would be to hunt down a copy of this old book....

If your really interested, there was a whole series of "essential guides"

Vehicles and vessels

Weapons and technology

Characters

Chronology

I think there were a few more that I never got too.

Do some research though, I know some of them went through multiple editions getting updated content (particularly the essential chronology, the original was published before the prequels)

Of course, with disney's canon purge and shuffle, it's anyone's guess what is and isn't accurate anymore.

If they can shrink a Nebulon B frigate almost to the size of a Corellian Corvette, I don't see why not. But given stats of the star destroyer in the starter pack, it probably won't move at all.

Given the point values we know and a 300 point game. Anything bigger then a ISD seems unlikely.

Given the point values we know and a 300 point game. Anything bigger then a ISD seems unlikely.

Except in a "Epic" game mode. In the TC demo the designer said that the scale would be relative iirc "... because nobody wants to buy a 400$ model..." or something like that.

I think a SSD could be possible in such a way. Also in Armada only the imperials are likely to get a ship that size, which could be the reason they don't get one in X-wing.

For rebels I believe they will go for the 3km long Home One, as the movies and Empire at War depict, as their "epic" ship. probably at about half the length of what they will make the SSD.

I hope that is the case, as that will look the most "theatrical", with Home One forming the centre of the rag tag rebel fleet, with a few vanilla MC80s (at th 1.2-1.4 cannon length) facing off against the SSD flagship surrounded by the wedges of ISDs and VSDs.

with a few vanilla MC80s (at th 1.2-1.4 cannon length) facing off against the SSD flagship surrounded by the wedges of ISDs and VSDs.

Unless they come out with epic rules, or there's some sort of official support for higher point games, you'll never be able to fit those ships into a game.

Even if the game allows you to play 1,000 point games. It's unlikely FFG will produce models for such a thing unless it's official supported.

Can you tell me more of what you've heard of this unified process? Have you heard that FFG is in regular consultation with the Lucasfilm Story Group?.

Well, we know that the model sculpts have to be approved by Lucasfilm. That is pretty much ALL we know on that subject though.

Well, that's good at least.

Of course, given the long necks on the Star Destroyers in Star Wars Rebels, it doesn't suggest a particularly rigorous process.

You are aware that's just due to stylistic choice and not meant to convey accurate "canon" proportions. That goes the same for the Tie Fighter in Rebels.

Anyway I'd hold my breath on the idea that anything FFG produces for XWMG and Armada are automatically considered part of the new canon even if it is approved by Lucasfilm. LFL may not consider miniature games as having the same canonical weight as the movies, tv series and published novels.

LFL may not consider miniature games as having the same canonical weight as the movies, tv series and published novels.

Well supposedly video games are just as much canon as everything else now. Part of the whole deal is there will no longer be varying degrees of canon.

LFL may not consider miniature games as having the same canonical weight as the movies, tv series and published novels.

Well supposedly video games are just as much canon as everything else now. Part of the whole deal is there will no longer be varying degrees of canon.

Yes I understand how that works but as a game that contains no new narrative or story that would have to be tied to the new canon XWMG and Armada are able to draw from both Legends and new canon sources for its benefit. The existence of EU ships within the context of these games does not mean that they are part of the new canon, it just means Lucasfilm acknowledges that many fans still care about the old EU and are willing to support it through the "Legends" brand. If there's a game that might give any indication as to what's canon or not it SW RPG but even that's not a certainty.

Yes I understand how that works but as a game that contains no new narrative or story that would have to be tied to the new canon...

Yeah I actually meant to make that same point, but got interrupted and apparently hit post without finishing my thought.

It's a pretty open question what models or purely technical stat like things, like the equipment guides, or even RPG rules will be in terms of canon.

Day 1.

So it begins.

No we won't. Thread closed.

No we won't. Thread closed.

I think they retconed the Eclipse down to 19k, of course the whole thing is up in the air with Disney's canon policy, the thing may very well not even exist any more.

But even then a think a SSD could in theory work on the table, if you have 5" VSD's, 8-9" ISD's a 24-27" SSD may not look that far out of place. It would still be a massive ship, but it would also have a fairly large price, around $200 most likely.

But the real problem is the point value and scale of the game.

Not scale in the ship size, but in the engagement size. Even though it's called Armada, you're not going to see large fleets in this game. The biggest game right now will be 3 VSD's, when ISD's come out I'll be surprised if you can have more then 2 in a 300 point game.

If a standard game is a ISD, a couple escorts and fighters... How does the SSD fit into that?

I believe it's more likely we'll see Battlecruisers at "Huge ship" scale (like the Praetor II), but Star Dreadnoughts are too big. Not without taking up more than half of the play space. A footprint that size would make movement very tricky as well.

The Eclipse class was stated as 10 miles in length (16km) in Dark Empire, its original source. The ship size in contention at the time was the Executor, which West End Games claimed was 8km (I loved their RPG but they just didn't know a thing about calculating scale) and multiple parties upheld for far too long.

I've been trying to figure out where the OP's image originates because its scale for the Eclipse is just not based on anything. Except maybe an assumption that it's more than double the Executor's length, but this one sets it as 17.6km which is an accurate scale based on measurements of the original model.

It's very odd. Odd and wrong.