Makes it easier for your opponent to tell what your maneuver is. Look at the mark on the dial and the notch where you look at the maneuver, estimate the angle. If you know which maneuver has its back marked and you know the dial you can predict the maneuver.

It's like a clock: you can't tell what time it is on a clock with no markings. Add a marking at 12 and you suddenly can.

However, if it makes you feel better to mark your dial fine; it puts you at an unfair disadvantage, but whatevs - your choice.

How does marking the back of your dial put you at a disadvantage?

Let me clarify. Marking the back of the dial can give away the position of the dial face, due to how you orient the dial as you are choosing your maneuver. A savvy observer will notice the position of the back, because when you are looking at dial options the back moves and the face is stationary. Dials are pretty universally held with the window up whilst looking at them. I get customization, I do. I just think there isn't much room for component modification. Ships, yes. Components, No.

It's like a clock: you can't tell what time it is on a clock with no markings. Add a marking at 12 and you suddenly can.

Ah I get it, if I notice the mark is behind the 2 bank left, then I can take a guess at what maneuver was picked based on the location of the mark.

Myself I'd just put a sliver or some other color dot on the plastic part, then it would give nothing away. Never thought about marking the cardboard so that's why I didn't see how you'd get anything from it.

Or mark the front of the dial.

It's like a clock: you can't tell what time it is on a clock with no markings. Add a marking at 12 and you suddenly can.

Ah I get it, if I notice the mark is behind the 2 bank left, then I can take a guess at what maneuver was picked based on the location of the mark.

Myself I'd just put a sliver or some other color dot on the plastic part, then it would give nothing away. Never thought about marking the cardboard so that's why I didn't see how you'd get anything from it.

I've seen people mark the center with ship names and it's much the same as marking the back. But dots, with a different color to represent the different ship types is actually kind of a good idea. I've seen a lot of confusion with dials from time to time, and I find putting the dial on the cards leaves room for a lot of issues. But your idea solves it pretty elegantly. Muchas Gracias

Edit: NM

Back to marking dice...

I guess if I were to do such a thing I would just put a mark on a single face and call it good, because the idea that I could somehow gain control by checking the face just didn't occur to me.

Although I'm still not convinced you can use the dice setting method with X-Wing dice.

Edit: I haven't marked my dice and don't think I would bother marking them. Because as was pointed out above dice are dice, and as long as I leave with the same number of them I started with, it's all good.

Dials are different because I'd like to keep mine, because I know mine are in pretty good shape still.

I have marked the center of my dials with colored round stickers:

It really helps when playing against other imperials to prevent accidental picking of my opponent dials.

I like your Tie Fighters. Simple change, but cool.
I've seen people with marked dice in Attack Wing, I was wondering what this was about.
In fact, they had a dot in the middle of a hit, and proclaimed it was a critical hit. I had to point out that it was not a critical hit but a hit with a dot in the middle.

Yeah I wouldn't want to be the guy who accidentally picks up the wrong dial in a tournament. No recovery from that one. If the dice have been cooked or drilled then yeah DQ him. But what if that's how he rolls all dice? You mean to tell me that he is taking into account how the dice bounce?

I think the guy wasn't cheating. I do the high flip roll myself which makes sure they tumble through the air and bounce on the table. If you can find a way without loading the dice to roll that way and get what you want the you might have telekinesis.

I pull out 6 red and 6 green dice and have 3 more in reserve in case some get lost. After rolling I bring them back to there pile by my cards and tokens. When I need to roll my red dice I look at my 6 dice and see which ones have crits and hits showing and use them. Why? I have no idea lol but I just do it!

If you guys watch the video, and please do, I think he just wanted to have the desired results in his hand before rolling. Go to las vegas and watch people play craps. Some of these old dudes at the craps tables have some of the craziest dice throwing techniques and always are looking at how the dice are and make sure they have them in the "right" position. I figure if stuff like that is fine for the pit bosses and casinos where real money is on the line then it should be fine for x-wing.

As far as getting my dice back everything of mine has blue on it somewhere except my dials and dice. I plan on putting blue stickers on the dials and thought about putting blue inside of the hits and evades of the red and green dice. I've very recently had 2 of my green dice go "missing" at a tournament and markings may have helped. Also it's not that my dice are special but I know exactly where my hands have been and my dice have been. Fact is some people are gross and spend half the match wiping snot away coming out of there nose and coughing in there hands and no I don't want there plague ridden dice...

If you are ok with trying to cheat, then by all means play that way. Just stay away from my table, as you won't be welcome. I think it's either outright trolling at this point - or refusal to read the thread - to not understand that marking your dice is illegal in the Rules As Written.

I have played in many, many x-wing tournaments and have seen many different kinds of players. I have not needed to mark my dials, dice, or cards and I don't see the pressing need for anyone to do so. However, if it makes you feel better to mark your dial fine; it puts you at an unfair disadvantage, but whatevs - your choice. As far as dice goes, marking dice is illegal in games as a general rule and illegal in x wing as an explicit rule. Follow the rules. Not that hard.

Lol well hopefully we don't meet up at gencon. Had you read my post you would see that I would mark the dice so I get MY dice back and the not dice that was in some dudes mouth or unwashed masturbation hand. There are many ways of marking the dials which have been posted here that gives no "disadvantage" whatsoever. God forbid someone play against you and they accidentally pick up your dial thinking it was there x-wing and not the one bumped against it. I can just hear the screams for the TO and how he should be following the rules and that it's not that hard...

Aren't we supposed to be flying casual In my book automatically assuming anything out of the "ordinary" is cheating is very not casual. So next game when my opponent rolls 3 natural crits or evades I better start analyzing every little thing he does and switch out his dice just in case. Clearly if he resists my request to roll different dice then he is guilty. Better check to make sure he isn't wearing his lucky underwear either lol

I think the guy wasn't cheating. I do the high flip roll myself which makes sure they tumble through the air and bounce on the table. If you can find a way without loading the dice to roll that way and get what you want the you might have telekinesis.

I pull out 6 red and 6 green dice and have 3 more in reserve in case some get lost. After rolling I bring them back to there pile by my cards and tokens. When I need to roll my red dice I look at my 6 dice and see which ones have crits and hits showing and use them. Why? I have no idea lol but I just do it!

If you guys watch the video, and please do, I think he just wanted to have the desired results in his hand before rolling. Go to las vegas and watch people play craps. Some of these old dudes at the craps tables have some of the craziest dice throwing techniques and always are looking at how the dice are and make sure they have them in the "right" position. I figure if stuff like that is fine for the pit bosses and casinos where real money is on the line then it should be fine for x-wing.

As far as getting my dice back everything of mine has blue on it somewhere except my dials and dice. I plan on putting blue stickers on the dials and thought about putting blue inside of the hits and evades of the red and green dice. I've very recently had 2 of my green dice go "missing" at a tournament and markings may have helped. Also it's not that my dice are special but I know exactly where my hands have been and my dice have been. Fact is some people are gross and spend half the match wiping snot away coming out of there nose and coughing in there hands and no I don't want there plague ridden dice...

If you are ok with trying to cheat, then by all means play that way. Just stay away from my table, as you won't be welcome. I think it's either outright trolling at this point - or refusal to read the thread - to not understand that marking your dice is illegal in the Rules As Written.

I have played in many, many x-wing tournaments and have seen many different kinds of players. I have not needed to mark my dials, dice, or cards and I don't see the pressing need for anyone to do so. However, if it makes you feel better to mark your dial fine; it puts you at an unfair disadvantage, but whatevs - your choice. As far as dice goes, marking dice is illegal in games as a general rule and illegal in x wing as an explicit rule. Follow the rules. Not that hard.

Lol well hopefully we don't meet up at gencon. Had you read my post you would see that I would mark the dice so I get MY dice back and the not dice that was in some dudes mouth or unwashed masturbation hand. There are many ways of marking the dials which have been posted here that gives no "disadvantage" whatsoever. God forbid someone play against you and they accidentally pick up your dial thinking it was there x-wing and not the one bumped against it. I can just hear the screams for the TO and how he should be following the rules and that it's not that hard...

Aren't we supposed to be flying casual In my book automatically assuming anything out of the "ordinary" is cheating is very not casual. So next game when my opponent rolls 3 natural crits or evades I better start analyzing every little thing he does and switch out his dice just in case. Clearly if he resists my request to roll different dice then he is guilty. Better check to make sure he isn't wearing his lucky underwear either lol

I think the guy wasn't cheating. I do the high flip roll myself which makes sure they tumble through the air and bounce on the table. If you can find a way without loading the dice to roll that way and get what you want the you might have telekinesis.

I pull out 6 red and 6 green dice and have 3 more in reserve in case some get lost. After rolling I bring them back to there pile by my cards and tokens. When I need to roll my red dice I look at my 6 dice and see which ones have crits and hits showing and use them. Why? I have no idea lol but I just do it!

If you guys watch the video, and please do, I think he just wanted to have the desired results in his hand before rolling. Go to las vegas and watch people play craps. Some of these old dudes at the craps tables have some of the craziest dice throwing techniques and always are looking at how the dice are and make sure they have them in the "right" position. I figure if stuff like that is fine for the pit bosses and casinos where real money is on the line then it should be fine for x-wing.

As far as getting my dice back everything of mine has blue on it somewhere except my dials and dice. I plan on putting blue stickers on the dials and thought about putting blue inside of the hits and evades of the red and green dice. I've very recently had 2 of my green dice go "missing" at a tournament and markings may have helped. Also it's not that my dice are special but I know exactly where my hands have been and my dice have been. Fact is some people are gross and spend half the match wiping snot away coming out of there nose and coughing in there hands and no I don't want there plague ridden dice...

If you are ok with trying to cheat, then by all means play that way. Just stay away from my table, as you won't be welcome. I think it's either outright trolling at this point - or refusal to read the thread - to not understand that marking your dice is illegal in the Rules As Written.

I have played in many, many x-wing tournaments and have seen many different kinds of players. I have not needed to mark my dials, dice, or cards and I don't see the pressing need for anyone to do so. However, if it makes you feel better to mark your dial fine; it puts you at an unfair disadvantage, but whatevs - your choice. As far as dice goes, marking dice is illegal in games as a general rule and illegal in x wing as an explicit rule. Follow the rules. Not that hard.

Lol well hopefully we don't meet up at gencon. Had you read my post you would see that I would mark the dice so I get MY dice back and the not dice that was in some dudes mouth or unwashed masturbation hand. There are many ways of marking the dials which have been posted here that gives no "disadvantage" whatsoever. God forbid someone play against you and they accidentally pick up your dial thinking it was there x-wing and not the one bumped against it. I can just hear the screams for the TO and how he should be following the rules and that it's not that hard...

Aren't we supposed to be flying casual In my book automatically assuming anything out of the "ordinary" is cheating is very not casual. So next game when my opponent rolls 3 natural crits or evades I better start analyzing every little thing he does and switch out his dice just in case. Clearly if he resists my request to roll different dice then he is guilty. Better check to make sure he isn't wearing his lucky underwear either lol

Ok then. Read the Rules that clearly state what can be altered. Dice cannot be altered in any way. That includes your little marks. Sorry.

As to dials, I never said that you couldn't mark your dial, as the rules state that you can. If you'd bother to read the thread (or even just this page) you'd see me complimenting Vanor on his idea to mark dials to keep them from being mixed up.

So which is it? Trolling or Obtuse?

Okie Dokie. 7 pages to see the point. Have fun guys!

Okie Dokie. 7 pages to see the point. Have fun guys!

The point is really this or atleast my interpretation. We see something we don't do or is a little out of the ordinary such as dice rolling or colored dots, do we assume cheating or assume it's just what that guy does?

Ok then. Read the Rules that clearly state what can be altered. Dice cannot be altered in any way. That includes your little marks. Sorry.

You're right, but on the other hand the TO has the final discretion on if something is allowed or not. So if I marked my dice and the TO said they were ok, they're ok. I'd of course have to check with the TO of every event I went to, and that would be a pain so I'm not sure I'd bother.

But it again is under the TO's discretion on if a modification will be allowed or not.

I think the point AtomicFryingPan was making, and I have to agree with him. That cheating should not be the first thing you assume when you see someone do something you think is odd.

For example in a previous thread this idea of dice setting came up and a number of people simply assumed that it would let you control the dice when playing X-Wing, so now we have someone rolling with a little twist in the method, and the assumption is that he's cheating by using the dice setting method.

But after about 15 minutes research and watching a 30 second video I can say with a fair amount of certainty that what the person was doing was not setting, the dice bounce and spin way too much for him to have any control...

And that dice setting used in craps won't work in X-Wing anyway.

I think the guy wasn't cheating. I do the high flip roll myself which makes sure they tumble through the air and bounce on the table. If you can find a way without loading the dice to roll that way and get what you want the you might have telekinesis.

I pull out 6 red and 6 green dice and have 3 more in reserve in case some get lost. After rolling I bring them back to there pile by my cards and tokens. When I need to roll my red dice I look at my 6 dice and see which ones have crits and hits showing and use them. Why? I have no idea lol but I just do it!

If you guys watch the video, and please do, I think he just wanted to have the desired results in his hand before rolling. Go to las vegas and watch people play craps. Some of these old dudes at the craps tables have some of the craziest dice throwing techniques and always are looking at how the dice are and make sure they have them in the "right" position. I figure if stuff like that is fine for the pit bosses and casinos where real money is on the line then it should be fine for x-wing.

As far as getting my dice back everything of mine has blue on it somewhere except my dials and dice. I plan on putting blue stickers on the dials and thought about putting blue inside of the hits and evades of the red and green dice. I've very recently had 2 of my green dice go "missing" at a tournament and markings may have helped. Also it's not that my dice are special but I know exactly where my hands have been and my dice have been. Fact is some people are gross and spend half the match wiping snot away coming out of there nose and coughing in there hands and no I don't want there plague ridden dice...

I don't see a high flip roll... I see a tight roll that does appear to put a fair amount of spin on the dice. They bounce a bit but not insanely so.

In theory if you could consistently put the same amount of spin, at the same height on the same surface you could at least edge % of favorable results.

Though as you said could very well just be superstition. Though I might add everything on its own is innocent enough but everything together just = questionable. I would ask to use neutral dice or a dice cup/tower.

Marking your dice is kind of odd. Marking your dice on a specific facing is really odd. Then using that facing in the manner in which you roll, well now you've pretty much used up all the odd you are allowed.

And the TO handled it correctly.

I don't know about the rest of you, however for me odd ball dice rolling techniques ALWAYS throw a red flag for me. When I was playing a lot of competitive 40K the big thing there were these Casino dice. Now the idea was that they roll much more random and were better for overall fairness to the rounded corner dice that were popular. However, when dropped from a short distance, they for tend to land rather then roll so 'fixing' dice rolls were easy. I became an expert on how to do it actually, by practicing with some at home.

In the end I always called a TO over to make them aware that I did not like playing against 'unusual' dice and if replacements could be found for both my opponent and myself. So we both were playing with neutral dice. Now, admittedly I only ever had to do this twice at an event, but one of those two times my opponents was not too pleased with this which makes me think he had intentions of cheating dice rolls.

If I were to come to the table and someone were to do that and I noticed that the dice were marked, I would have asked for replacements right way. I get the idea of marking dice so that you know which ones are yours. However I would rather not deal with the possibly that someone were attempting something weird.

What if you're like me and are super-superstitious?

I'd never dream about cheating or altering my dice rolls in any way possible, but...

I'd be pissed that someone is making me use new dice especially that we would have to both roll them. That would suck. All my life-force that's affecting the dice would be ruined, since it would have the other dude's mojo in them and I would have to roll them, which would ruin my rolls.

Marking your dice is kind of odd. Marking your dice on a specific facing is really odd. Then using that facing in the manner in which you roll, well now you've pretty much used up all the odd you are allowed.

And the TO handled it correctly.

In theory if you could consistently put the same amount of spin, at the same height on the same surface you could at least edge % of favorable results.

I'm not so sure that's true. The dice setting method only works (and it's debated if it actually works or not) by controlling the axis the dice roll on, and how far they roll. Part of the rules apparently is that the dice have to hit the back wall for the throw to count. Part of the method is letting the dice touch the back wall without actually bounding off it. Because if they do that then you lose your control.

Again this isn't to achieve a given result, it's to avoid one, namely rolling a 7. Also the dice setting method uses a cube shaped dice, not a polyhedron shaped one, with no real central axis to roll across the table. Which again, wasn't even what happened in the video, the dice clearly bounced which means any control of the axis was lost.

There are ways to cheat at rolling dice, such as getting the sides you want to face your palm then do a low flip so they don't rotate or spin and land with the side you wanted facing up. But if someone does that, it's pretty clear what they're doing.

Now it's completely possible that person the OP mentioned was actually doing that most of the time and only rolled the dice correctly when he saw he was being filmed. But we have no way of actually knowing that.

And the TO handled it correctly.

I think so too, if there's a question about how someone is rolling the dice and there's enough odd stuff going on, I think having neutral dice used is the best fix.

But that does mean you're at least implying that the other person is cheating, which is a pretty serious thing. That is however also a two-edged sword because cheaters will often count on people wanting to avoid a conflict or make an accusation and let them get away with cheating.

And the TO handled it correctly.

I think so too, if there's a question about how someone is rolling the dice and there's enough odd stuff going on, I think having neutral dice used is the best fix.

But that does mean you're at least implying that the other person is cheating, which is a pretty serious thing. That is however also a two-edged sword because cheaters will often count on people wanting to avoid a conflict or make an accusation and let them get away with cheating.

Exactly.

Animar is right that it doesn't specifically say he was using the markings when setting for his roll, but we are still back to the fact that taking separately none of this would be really suspect behavior but is when put together.

If the dice were randomly marked, no cause for concern. If he was just rolling in an odd way with no markings, again no cause for concern. But you combine all three and well you've got something that at least appears very suspect. The TO didn't sanction the player, he just removed the issue.

TO definitely handled it the right way.

If the dice were randomly marked, no cause for concern.

This made me stop to think.

Lets assume you can control the dice roll, and that due to that and manufacturing defects that a given die is more likely to land with a given face up, if it starts with a different face up in your hand.

If that were true, you'd almost have to mark a different face on each die, I mean what's the odds of all 4-6 die having the same favored side? Or even just having one of the <focus> or <hit> sides be the favored one?

Now that I think about it, if someone had every die marked on a <focus> it would make it less likely that they were using that as a way to cheat.

Must be missing it. Where is the rule about official FFG dice? Not being a smartass. Really don't see it in tourney rules.

It's not in the current edition of the rules, but I remember an older version that spoke to only FFG dice or the dice app and the dice cannot be altered in any way. However, it's just not there anymore, so I don't know if it's an oversight or a policy change on FFG's part.

Let me quote the current tournament rules:

During tournament play, each player is required to use components included

in official X-Wing products with the exception of third party maneuver

templates, tokens, and range rulers, the use of which is addressed below.

And

Minor variations in the printing process and the existence of third-party

products may cause slight disparities in the measurements of some rulers

and templates. Before a tournament match begins, any player may request

that a single range ruler and/or set of maneuver templates be shared for

the duration of the match. Both players must agree on the set of maneuver

templates to be used, as well as which side of the range ruler to use. The TO

will have the final say in any decision. Third-party tokens may also be used,

provided they are clearly recognizable and both players agree to their use.

And

Players are welcome and encouraged to personalize their squads according to

the following rules. The TO is the final authority on any component’s eligibility

in the tournament. If a component is ruled ineligible and the player does not

have a replacement for it, that player is disqualified from the tournament.

That means his modified components (which would no longer consitute official, since his dice would be different than my dice by anything more than manufacturing discrepencies) can be ruled ineligible by the TO, and if he does not have replacements, would be disqualified from the tournament.

The TO did the right thing, I just can't believe that player wasn't called out on that until the semi-final. I would have made that player share dice with me or called the TO over for suspicious behavior at best.