The question I keep running into when I go through the exercise of building a Vessery squad (only to delete it later) is: At what point does building a whole squad to support one ship become a Rube Goldberg strategy?

I keep feeling like I am building some complex machine with oddball parts in order to take advantage of one, expensive pilot's ability.

VI over Adrenaline imo. fly better, plan the turns well.

This is a silly thing to say.

Nobody guesses 100%, and even the best players make mistakes - especially at tournaments, where they are under time pressure and may have been playing for hours already.

I took a Defender to a tournament last weekend and made top 8, and there absolutely were a couple of times when I got caught off guard by an unexpected maneuver by an opponent. On one occasion I had to take a red 1 to dodge a very well-timed bomb.

How bout,

Vessery-Predator

Scimitar - Cluster Missiles, Seismic Bomb x2

Scimitar - Seismic Bomb

I came up with that last night as a funnsies list.

The question I keep running into when I go through the exercise of building a Vessery squad (only to delete it later) is: At what point does building a whole squad to support one ship become a Rube Goldberg strategy?

I keep feeling like I am building some complex machine with oddball parts in order to take advantage of one, expensive pilot's ability.

In some ways you are, but Vessery is fun so you do it anyway.

How bout,

Vessery-Predator

Scimitar - Cluster Missiles, Seismic Bomb x2

Scimitar - Seismic Bomb

I came up with that last night as a funnsies list.

Sense Vessery gets his free TL shenanigans Predator is a little redundant. I might try Outmaneuver instead. Also Outmaneuver prevents C3P0's ability. Just a thought.

I shouldn't make lists while sleepy. You make errors like that lol

I've Run Vessery a lot lately, and Adrenaline Rush has worked every game for me. I've surprised everyone I've played with a Hard 1 mid game. It's one of those upgrades that's easy to forget as an opponent. With Straights being your only green moves, this really helps.

I like this idea a lot.

You'll probably only need it once per game, and when you do it'll make a huge difference.

Don't think I'd take it on Brath, but it makes a lot of sense on Vessery.

Brath has a different set of needs--he has to ensure he gets hits through without spending a focus token to modify his dice. But on Vessery, it's great: either your opponent isn't thinking about your AR, in which case you can get a lot of mileage out of the ambush, or your opponent is thinking about your AR, in which case he or she has to plan around the possibility of (e.g.) that matador turn in addition to everything a Defender can normally do. It's a really fun way to run Vessery--matched only, in my opinion, by running him with both AR and Cluster Missiles.

The question I keep running into when I go through the exercise of building a Vessery squad (only to delete it later) is: At what point does building a whole squad to support one ship become a Rube Goldberg strategy?

I keep feeling like I am building some complex machine with oddball parts in order to take advantage of one, expensive pilot's ability.

What mrfroggies said, plus: the machine doesn't have to be complex. I happen to have an affection for Firesprays and Bombers, and even for the Advanced in casual games, all of which obviously have TL. If you're used to building lists with those anyway--that is, if you're already comfortable with game elements that fit nicely in 60-65 points and happen to feature a couple of TL-capable ships--then Vessery is a durable PS6 ship with a stress-free version of PTL.

I think what makes a lot of people uncomfortable about Vessery, though, is exactly that: he does push you toward ships that don't have a lot of representation in the typical Imperial repertoire. He's a really effective ship once you get over the unusual dial*, but he's outside a lot of players' comfort zones.

(*Honestly, Adrenaline Rush helps here, too: it's methadone to help you adjust to the lack of a white 1-turn.)

***

Okay, now you're just slinging mud. You brought a subjective list to the table (a bad one at that) and since I dismissed it outright with valid reasons, you are clearly upset.

Filed for future reference: Ribann doesn't know what "subjective" or "valid" mean. Or "upset", come to think of it.

If you would care to demonstrate your supposed "skill" of the game in an actual match, I'd be glad to play you on Vassal.

Sure! When "spend large fraction of leisure time comparing e-peen with people I dislike" comes up on my to-do list, you'll be the very first person I notify.

Because Shuttles are Awesome.

99 points

Vessery + Swarm Tactics (37)

Captain Yorr + Fire Control System (26)

Omicron Group Pilot + Fire Control System (23)

Obsidian Squadron Pilot (13)

Brath has a different set of needs--he has to ensure he gets hits through without spending a focus token to modify his dice.

Would it be almost to bold to state that maybe Brath's ability is almost like Kath's? Its amazing when it happens but do you really plan to build for it. I'm of the opinion that maybe you take Brath for being a PS 8 defender instead of trying to trigger his ability (I'm not saying don't take predator I love that card on him, I like engine upgrade on him and I love being able to mod dice if I have to boost).

Brath has a different set of needs--he has to ensure he gets hits through without spending a focus token to modify his dice.

Would it be almost to bold to state that maybe Brath's ability is almost like Kath's? Its amazing when it happens but do you really plan to build for it. I'm of the opinion that maybe you take Brath for being a PS 8 defender instead of trying to trigger his ability (I'm not saying don't take predator I love that card on him, I like engine upgrade on him and I love being able to mod dice if I have to boost).

I think you right on here. Right now I can't seem to figure a reliable way to trigger his ability. Maybe you run him with VI so you can be PS 10, and just run him as a scary defender, if his ability triggers then great, but no loss if it doesn't.

Howl + Swarm Tactics

Black Squadron + Swarm Tactics

Academy Pilot

Academy Pilot

Brath + Predator

3 TIEs firing before Brath at PS8, two with a Howlrunner reroll to play with.

Out to be able to strip some shields for Rex.

Brath has a different set of needs--he has to ensure he gets hits through without spending a focus token to modify his dice.

Would it be almost to bold to state that maybe Brath's ability is almost like Kath's? Its amazing when it happens but do you really plan to build for it. I'm of the opinion that maybe you take Brath for being a PS 8 defender instead of trying to trigger his ability (I'm not saying don't take predator I love that card on him, I like engine upgrade on him and I love being able to mod dice if I have to boost).

I think you right on here. Right now I can't seem to figure a reliable way to trigger his ability. Maybe you run him with VI so you can be PS 10, and just run him as a scary defender, if his ability triggers then great, but no loss if it doesn't.

I like predator way to much to substitute it for veteran instincts, though it would help him against phantoms.

Howl + Swarm Tactics

Black Squadron + Swarm Tactics

Academy Pilot

Academy Pilot

Brath + Predator

3 TIEs firing before Brath at PS8, two with a Howlrunner reroll to play with.

Out to be able to strip some shields for Rex.

Very solid, I may have to give this a try sometime. Plus you can run Rex next to the mini-swarm, gives you up to 3 rerolls to help save that focus. Howl is a bit vulnerable, but I guess the best defense is a good offense huh? Would love to see this list lay into a Falcon, and could also give Echo some troubles while your at it.

I also just realized, that with the two sources of rerolls, you can reroll dice at different steps per pg 11 in the rulebook. Say you roll [hit], [hit], [blank], [focus] with Rex at R1. You could declare Howl reroll, and reroll the single [blank] by itself first. Then depending on the situation and result, you can choose to predator the [focus] result or not. Nothing major, but a nice little advantage if you need it.

Howl + Swarm Tactics

Black Squadron + Swarm Tactics

Academy Pilot

Academy Pilot

Brath + Predator

3 TIEs firing before Brath at PS8, two with a Howlrunner reroll to play with.

Out to be able to strip some shields for Rex.

That is the exact list I've been running with him. Works well but I never got a chance to pull braths ability off though. Fought mostly Z-95s and they went boom before he could try.

Howl + Swarm Tactics

Black Squadron + Swarm Tactics

Academy Pilot

Academy Pilot

Brath + Predator

3 TIEs firing before Brath at PS8, two with a Howlrunner reroll to play with.

Out to be able to strip some shields for Rex.

That is the exact list I've been running with him. Works well but I never got a chance to pull braths ability off though. Fought mostly Z-95s and they went boom before he could try.

That's good!

You don't really want to have to spend it. Much better to be able to save it for defense if necessary.

Brath has a different set of needs--he has to ensure he gets hits through without spending a focus token to modify his dice.

Would it be almost to bold to state that maybe Brath's ability is almost like Kath's? Its amazing when it happens but do you really plan to build for it. I'm of the opinion that maybe you take Brath for being a PS 8 defender instead of trying to trigger his ability (I'm not saying don't take predator I love that card on him, I like engine upgrade on him and I love being able to mod dice if I have to boost).

I think you right on here. Right now I can't seem to figure a reliable way to trigger his ability. Maybe you run him with VI so you can be PS 10, and just run him as a scary defender, if his ability triggers then great, but no loss if it doesn't.

That's how I run him, and I've been pleased with the results. That build + mini-swarm gives you a decent chance against both Phantoms and Falcons. Brath + miniswarm is a lot of dice to chew through AGI 1 YT1300s, and HLC PS10 Brath is just going to get shots off against Phantoms.

Howdy folks, Chumby here.

In my continuing exploration of the TIE Defender, I'm having a lot of fun getting the most out of this awesome ship. So, I cooked up a new list and after testing a bit I'm looking for a bit more feedback.

Colonel Vessery w/ Adrenaline Rush (36)

4x Scimitar Squadron Pilots (16)

Total - 100

So, fairly straightforward here. The TIEs of size are a nice mini-swarm with a big sack of HP and the oh so lovely target lock. They can gang up on something, block movement, outlast smaller craft and generally be a nuisance. Meanwhile, Vessery enjoys a smattering of target locks and does his thing: putting out consistent damage. Adrenaline Rush I've found handy as a situational upgrade, but Veteran Instincts and Determination are also worth consideration.

Bombers and Defenders have rather similar dials so keeping this crew on the same page movement wise is pretty easy. And a grand total of 30 HP is nothing to sneeze at.

Thoughts?

I like the use of adrenaline rush to get better turns.