Howdy folks, Chumby here.

In my continuing exploration of the TIE Defender, I'm having a lot of fun getting the most out of this awesome ship. So, I cooked up a new list and after testing a bit I'm looking for a bit more feedback.

Colonel Vessery w/ Adrenaline Rush (36)

4x Scimitar Squadron Pilots (16)

Total - 100

So, fairly straightforward here. The TIEs of size are a nice mini-swarm with a big sack of HP and the oh so lovely target lock. They can gang up on something, block movement, outlast smaller craft and generally be a nuisance. Meanwhile, Vessery enjoys a smattering of target locks and does his thing: putting out consistent damage. Adrenaline Rush I've found handy as a situational upgrade, but Veteran Instincts and Determination are also worth consideration.

Bombers and Defenders have rather similar dials so keeping this crew on the same page movement wise is pretty easy. And a grand total of 30 HP is nothing to sneeze at.

Thoughts?

I'd take Vet Instincts on Vessery over Adrenaline Rush, any day.

The barrel roll is such a powerful tool on a PS 8 ship.

I've loved this list for awhile, though usually just save that last point for initiative. I think the Adrenaline Rush choice is inspired though and may need to try it out.

Everyone is going to focus Vessery, so don't be afraid to have him break formation and lead them on a chase.

Vessery doesnt need Adrenaline Rush, you wont be making a lot of red turns. I second VI.

I had thought of Vessery with a HLC and Jonus a couple other bombers but this might be better. Leave it at 98 points for initiative. I do like the extra HP of your build. Seems like this would have problems with the E'tan swarm. Critical sand bombers don't get along. Could be good. Hard to say.

I've been really trying hard to find Vessery a happy family to fly with but its tough to get everything you need in one list to deal with all the different popular lists these days. I like your choice of bombers for escort; I was thinking along shuttle w/ wep eng & st321, but perhaps bombers are more versatile. I still think high PS phantoms & interceptors might be your worst matchup, especially as mentioned, Vessery is gonna be highest target priority and once he's gone it could be really hard to pin down a nimble glass cannon...

I ran a BH+RC and 4xScimitar in the GC. It's slightly different, but I played a lot of games with 4 naked scimitars.

One thing I can point out that will be a problem if you aren't prepared for it is that PS 2 bombers rarely get a lock on the target you want to focus down until midgame, and then you are usually giving up a crucial focus action when you need the defense. Also, unaided and without ordinance they do lack fire power. Losing Vess early is going to make for an uphill battle.

That said I have considered playing this list but I think I would be inclined to drop a bomber for upgrades to PS, cards on Vess, or maybe some combo of a shuttle and bombers.

Drop a bomber and you might be able to up one to Jonus to combine with a Heavy Laser Cannon on Vessery and get some actual bombs in there too.

I had thought of Vessery with a HLC and Jonus a couple other bombers but this might be better. Leave it at 98 points for initiative. I do like the extra HP of your build. Seems like this would have problems with the E'tan swarm. Critical sand bombers don't get along. Could be good. Hard to say.

I gotta agree with the Etahn concern. Etahn and a couple B's will shred bombers, I've done it. But still sounds interesting

I have been running this in preparation for a tournament this weekend.

100 points

Colonel Vessery w/ Heavy Laser Cannon

Captain Jonus

2x Scimitar Squadron Pilot w/ Flechette Torpedoes

I got accustomed to flying Bombers before Regionals, and they are a natural to let Vessery use his pilot ability. At first I thought it would be redundant next to Jonus, but I find I generally keep the generated target lock for the next exchange.

Do not discount AD on Defenders. It is tricky enough for them to shed stress that several times I have wished I had a spare point for AD, not that VI would be bad either. That is another reason I like Vessery, as he can still acquire a target lock while stressed.

Thanks for the input.

I've tried this against the Snooze Cruise (5 Zs and Eating a Boat) and it was rather painful. It's probably my worst matchup with all those crits, but I think it was my own mistakes that cost me an otherwise winnable game.

I do like the idea of slotting in Jonus and some Gammas to make those target locks more reliable and to give me a bit of an alpha strike, I'll have to test and see if it's worth losing a ship. What I do like about numbers is that I can lose or disengage a few and still be ok. There's nothing more satisfying than seeing a 1 hull bomber fly away with a blue target lock token while Vessery homes in on the unfortunate bearer of the red.

I really like Adrenaline Rush on Vessery. Being able to turn and focus can make a big difference... and making the matador turn available on a ship that can follow it up with a white K-turn means Adrenaline Rush has value far higher than its cost.

With that said, I'd second Lagomorphia's suggestion of dropping a Bomber for some upgrades. Rekkon's list is a good one, although it's not quite what I'd put together. I'd do this, because I like my Proton Torpedoes:

Seeing that this list is built around Vessery I think determination would be the safest choice. Noting worse than building a list around one pilot only for them to draw a crit and lots their ability.

Fiddled around with this list a bit and noticed you can substitute a bounty hunter for two of the bombers (plus the 1 point upgrade for Vessery)

Vessery

Scimitar x 2

Bounty Hunter

is a bounty hunter better than two bombers? I'm leaning toward yes, and it can still target lock too. Gives double arc and an additional 3-dice attack which can help against phantoms and the like

just some thoughts

If you bring a bounty hunter, consider a weapons engineer. Not normally useful, but beast mode with Vessery.

I've Run Vessery a lot lately, and Adrenaline Rush has worked every game for me. I've surprised everyone I've played with a Hard 1 mid game. It's one of those upgrades that's easy to forget as an opponent. With Straights being your only green moves, this really helps.

I'd be tempted to drop a bomber down to an AP. 4pts gets you some great utility in this list.

I fly:

Vessary +outmaneuver

Gammax2

NB+ TC

10 points left for ordnance or 12 with no TC

NB + TC

Nobody respects Night Beast, but you're absolutely right: for just one extra point he's actually a pretty strong upgrade from a Scimitar.

(Anyone interested in anything constructive with respect to the thread topic can stop reading now.)

***

Leave Darth Vader out of the equation if you wouldn't put EU or Outmaneuver on him.

I am absolutely certain I have more experience flying Vader than you do, so I think I'll keep my own counsel here.

Losing a bomber for some upgrades is hardly a wise choice.

"Wise" is in the eye of the beholder, I suppose, but you're hardly a qualified judge.

Bombers have the unique quality of sticking around...

Filed for future reference: Ribann doesn't know what "unique" means.

...basically you're just trying to get more dice on the table earlier in the game. That's understandable but mistaken. Having that extra bomber around will give you more dice in the long run and keep you alive.

Against (e.g.) a target with 2 Agility, it typically takes a Scimitar Squadron Pilotabout four attacks to exceed the damage of a single shot with Proton Torpedoes against, say, an X-wing. That means I'm spending a Scimitar to distribute five or six rounds' worth of its damage to its wingmen--and I'm doing all that damage in Round 1, rather than in bits over Rounds 2-6.

What will happen is your opponent will focus down Jonus hard and then you're left with next to nothing.

Filed for future reference: Ribann also doesn't know what "next to nothing" means.

If my opponent decides to "focus down Jonus hard", I'm left with Colonel Vessery and two Scimitar Squadron Pilots, which is okay with me. Not incidentally, if my opponent decides Jonus is his or her principal target, then I got the effect of Biggs plus the effect of Jonus in a single ship; that's not a bad deal for 24 points.

You also want to get as many target locks on an opponent as possible to maximize Vessery's effectiveness.

Right, because Vessery is going to simultaneously shoot four targets each round.

OP's list is just fine.

"Just fine" and "can be improved upon" are not mutually exclusive.

I've Run Vessery a lot lately, and Adrenaline Rush has worked every game for me. I've surprised everyone I've played with a Hard 1 mid game. It's one of those upgrades that's easy to forget as an opponent. With Straights being your only green moves, this really helps.

I like this idea a lot.

You'll probably only need it once per game, and when you do it'll make a huge difference.

Don't think I'd take it on Brath, but it makes a lot of sense on Vessery.

Vessery at Fat Cow Camp

Vessery + Adrenaline Rush

Omnicron + FCS + Gunner + Weapons Engineer

Scimitar

Scimitar

Thats a lot of target locks.

The thought of running a shuttle without engine upgrade (unless Lord Vader is on board) kinda scares me.

I've Run Vessery a lot lately, and Adrenaline Rush has worked every game for me. I've surprised everyone I've played with a Hard 1 mid game. It's one of those upgrades that's easy to forget as an opponent. With Straights being your only green moves, this really helps.

I like this idea a lot.

You'll probably only need it once per game, and when you do it'll make a huge difference.

Don't think I'd take it on Brath, but it makes a lot of sense on Vessery.

It's been consistent for me. I'm not sure how I would run Brath yet. I just haven't figured out to make the most of him.

VI over Adrenaline imo. fly better, plan the turns well.

also, the list is hard to maneuver and has piddling damage. also, there is an obvious cornerstone in vessery, take that out and the game is easy.

Vessery at Fat Cow Camp

Vessery + Adrenaline Rush

Omnicron + FCS + Gunner + Weapons Engineer

Scimitar

Scimitar

Thats a lot of target locks.

I like this squad, I'm going to have to give this a try.

@TheGreedyMerchant - Don't be afraid to fly a shuttle without EU. It does take some practice but it's very good. The Scimitar is one of the best ships to fly with it as you can help slow play the shuttle.

VI over Adrenaline imo. fly better, plan the turns well.

also, the list is hard to maneuver and has piddling damage. also, there is an obvious cornerstone in vessery, take that out and the game is easy.

For the current state of things PS 8 isn't really good enough. Yes you will beat out a lot of ships, but not the ones that really matter. Adrenaline Rush isn't about making up for bad plans, it's about an unexpected move. I think both of these 1 point EPTs have there place. For this it may just come down to style of play.