So here’s the thing, I usually find myself in the same position when constructing lists. I have my 1-2 ships I’m constructing the list around, a named Phantom/Defender/Slave etc. I go on supporting this ship with one or more other ships. This usually lands me with roughly 24p left after I’m done.

So here’s my question,

• In general terms, what do you think is better 2 Academy Pilots OR a Doom Shuttle?
• In which type of list do you see Doom Shuttle more useful?
• In which type of list do you see 2xAP more useful?
• With margin of victory and tournament play: how much effective are the two options?

Keep in mind this is a general discussion about the value of the 2 different options.

edit: added more questions for better evaluation

I have this same problem. It really depends on you I think. I enjoy "bumping" with the TIE's, and they are really maneuverable. Usually in my list, I run a named Phantom, Bounty Hunter, and..., the two TIE's are a great "escort" for the BH. Then again the Doom Shuttle has firepower, and would be a third threat for my opponent.

Depends entirely on what else you've got, but I'm leaning Lambda.

Depends entirely on what else you've got, but I'm leaning Lambda.

This is true ofc trying to keep it general but lets expand.

In which type of list do you see Doom Shuttle more useful?

In which type of list do you see 2xAP more useful?

heres a question:

with margin of victory and tournament play: how much effective are the two options considering how easy they die?

doomshuttle is 24 pts, tends to die in the tournament, and has the possibility of getting stuck mid game without a shot.

tie fighters tend to pop like flies. effing green dice.

heres a question:

with margin of victory and tournament play: how much effective are the two options considering how easy they die?

doomshuttle is 24 pts, tends to die in the tournament, and has the possibility of getting stuck mid game without a shot.

tie fighters tend to pop like flies. effing green dice.

Added the question to the OP.

It also depends on what you're expecting to face:

2 AP give you better blocking capabilities and will add more firepower to the list against AGI 1 ships

the doom shuttle is better against jousting type lists (as they will maneuver less) giving you options against high AGI ships such as interceptors/holwrunner.

If you play with phantom + firespray, the phantom already gives you a nice anti-elite capability, so the 2 APs are probably better and you already have a nice anvil with the firespray.

If you play with the shuttle, you will give an almost guaranteed 24pts to a non maneuverable opponent with a nice follow on target in the firespray.

Here are my thoughts:

In the opening to early mid-game the Doomed shuttle is amazing as it doesn't even have to hit to do damage. If it is run with higher to equal pilot skill ships, those ships can strip off shields so that Vader's force chock is hitting hull and doing more damage.

However, in my experience, this is where the usefulness of this ship end. It is never intended to make it to the late or end game. This is why it is called a DOOMED shuttle, because it is doomed to die. And, if it does make it to the late game, it is usually easy pickings for the more maneuverable ships out there.

The TIE Fighter is a good all around ship, fast, agile, cheap, useful in all facets of the game. Be it for blocking with Academy, or mid to late game jousters, you can never really go wrong with a TIE Fighter.

Point being, when used correctly, BOTH ships have very good punch for their points and BOTH ships have their place in almost every list. It all depends on what your Squad needs. Does it need more early game punch to shed of the chaff ships and get to the meat of the force, go with the shuttle. If you are looking for more late game support and early game blocking, go with the TIE Fighters.

I hope this helps!

• In general terms, what do you think is better 2 Academy Pilots OR a Doom Shuttle?
• In which type of list do you see Doom Shuttle more useful?

I went to regionals with this list, nice perfomance and imho good Doomshutlle squad:

Omicron Group Pilot — Lambda-Class Shuttle 21

Darth Vader 3

Obsidian Squadron Pilot — TIE Fighter 13

"Backstabber" — TIE Fighter 16

Soontir Fel — TIE Interceptor 27

Push the Limit 3

"Dark Curse" — TIE Fighter 16

As you can see I'm not that into A Tie, problem with Doomshuttle is that if not flown well can be outmaneuvered easily. It's also a better blocker than Ties in my opinion in the sense that a big base can limit decloack paths more effectively than Ties.

Howl and Ints hate Doomshuttle and in my meta I face lots of them...

Here are my thoughts:

In the opening to early mid-game the Doomed shuttle is amazing as it doesn't even have to hit to do damage. If it is run with higher to equal pilot skill ships, those ships can strip off shields so that Vader's force chock is hitting hull and doing more damage.

However, in my experience, this is where the usefulness of this ship end. It is never intended to make it to the late or end game. This is why it is called a DOOMED shuttle, because it is doomed to die. And, if it does make it to the late game, it is usually easy pickings for the more maneuverable ships out there.

The TIE Fighter is a good all around ship, fast, agile, cheap, useful in all facets of the game. Be it for blocking with Academy, or mid to late game jousters, you can never really go wrong with a TIE Fighter.

Point being, when used correctly, BOTH ships have very good punch for their points and BOTH ships have their place in almost every list. It all depends on what your Squad needs. Does it need more early game punch to shed of the chaff ships and get to the meat of the force, go with the shuttle. If you are looking for more late game support and early game blocking, go with the TIE Fighters.

I hope this helps!

Very good analysis!

I would however argue that the TIE Fighters usually don’t make it to late game that many times as well, and the doom shuttle can do massive damage late game when shields are stripped of (if it gets any ships in it arc).

Still what you say is true enough and a good measure of how to use them.

There are ofc other options for those 24p like a Saber with PtL, Bomber with some ordinance, and maybe even an Advanced with Proton Rockets once they are released. I just don’t know how viable they are compared to the APs or the Doom Shuttle.

Funny, I battle this thought in every list I make. But 8/10 times its the shuttle.

But not always doomshuttle. Only use doom when you have the extra list HP.

That all depends on play-style my friend. Myself, I'd rather have the Saber with PTL then the Shuttle. But I'd also prefer two TIE Fighters over the Saber. Again though, these fit my play-style.

Right now I am running Echo, which is a great flanking ship. So I need in my list a good core of ships, and cheap TIE fighters fit better. I do not need a second flanker, I need warm bodies to absorb hits and get in the way so I can set Echo up for kill shots.

In other lists, the Saber or Shuttle would do nicely for other tasks.

That all depends on play-style my friend. Myself, I'd rather have the Saber with PTL then the Shuttle. But I'd also prefer two TIE Fighters over the Saber. Again though, these fit my play-style.

Right now I am running Echo, which is a great flanking ship. So I need in my list a good core of ships, and cheap TIE fighters fit better. I do not need a second flanker, I need warm bodies to absorb hits and get in the way so I can set Echo up for kill shots.

In other lists, the Saber or Shuttle would do nicely for other tasks.

My lists right now are very Echo centric. I just love that little flexible ship. And just like you the TIEs are my go to most of the times (for the same reason as yours).

My go to list these last weeks have been this one as an example:

Can't believe I just saw this thread. Have the same constant debate with myself about it. I realized I just suck at using TIEs, so usually go with the shuttle. Having that guaranteed crit after shooting is priceless, granted, not as useful against falcon and b-wing lists. The lack of maneuverability past mid-game is painful though, so it's always a tough decision on whether to use Vader or not.

My standard Echo is 37 points with ACD, VI, and FCS.

Been trying the BH with Delta combo, and Shuttle with Vessery. I like the BH with delta better. But the PS1 on the delta just hurts in the endgame.

I may try the 2 TIEs again sometime, but the 10 HP on the shuttle, even of it dies, is quit reassuring. ;-)

As many others have stated. I think the ties are too easily to kill. They can go down without really contributing much. Rather have the doomshuttle for space control heavy damage and blocking.

Except in dedicated swarmy lists.

Here's a question. In a phantom plus five tie list would you rather have doomshuttle or two ties?

Do you think that a shuttle with Ion cannon is worth using as an alternative to the doomshuttle?

I dont particularly like doing damage to my own ships

Do you think that a shuttle with Ion cannon is worth using as an alternative to the doomshuttle?

I dont particularly like doing damage to my own ships

I would say It could be one way to go yes, I just find Ion Cannons are only really useful with synergies (stress being the most obvious)

As many others have stated. I think the ties are too easily to kill. They can go down without really contributing much. Rather have the doomshuttle for space control heavy damage and blocking.

Except in dedicated swarmy lists.

Here's a question. In a phantom plus five tie list would you rather have doomshuttle or two ties?

Why only 1 shuttle?

Why not go for 2...

Tbh those are not bad ideas =P

I dont particularly like doing damage to my own ships

You don't have to use it.

You can save it for when you have a kill-shot. (e.g. 1-2 hull remaining on the target after the attack has been resolved)

I love the Doom Shuttle. I ran it alongside Soontir and Rexler at Regionals and it was invaluable, racking up double digit kills over 8 games.

Now, it fit better into that list as it gave me a nice target to run alongside Rexler while Soontir flanked. Given the Phantom and Firespray, I'd probably lean towards the TIEs for the same reasons Ed put up. The Phantom is agile enough to nail slower ships and medium to higher PS ships while the Firespray is a good all-rounder. The APs help against low agility stuff like YTs and Bs which can put the hurt on your Phantom and Firespray, respectively.