I can see the point of showing the Jedi from another point of view than the knight-in-shining-robes.

That's the problem most of us have. She was very heavy handed and actually out and out broke established canon to make Jedi look bad. Then as was posted above, there's the things she said about people who didn't agree with her, that just further proves her real intentions.

Sure to some the Jedi were not the knight in shining robes that the movies made them out to be, and I think CW's did a good job of showing another point of view.

But what KT did went beyond just a different PoV and went right into the realm of anti-jedi propaganda.

- A spray painting, steampunk mandolorian chick? Come on now Disney.. You can do much better then that.

A lot of us think she makes for an interesting character for those reasons. It breaks quite nicely with the established Disney Princess role.

- A spray painting, steampunk mandolorian chick? Come on now Disney.. You can do much better then that.

A lot of us think she makes for an interesting character for those reasons. It breaks quite nicely with the established Disney Princess role.

My daughter (who is 5) has already declared that she wants to be Sabine for Halloween and that is totally fine with me. Going to try my hand at making the armor for her myself - thank the Force that the armor looks pretty simple. I'll totally cheat and buy the helmet.

Jim

Because the Disney character catalog is already overflowing with spray painting, steampunk, explosives expert, Mandalorian women?

Did Frozen go in a direction that I was unaware of?

They still killed her.

No, KT killed her.

In yet another attempt to paint the Jedi in the worse possible way, the weapon she used was a Jedi but she's the one who pulled the trigger as it were.

That's the problem with her works, it's clear to anyone she hated Jedi and her only purpose of writing Star Wars novels was to tarnish the Jedi name in any way she could.

It is certainly not clear to me that she hates Jedi!? Is this stemming from Legacy or from RC as well? If it's Legacy then I can't comment, but I really didn't get this impression from the RC series.

I can't comment on Legacy of the Force either, but in RC pretty much every single character hates the Jedi (and Darman would kill any Jedi that got within ten feet of Kad), even Etain and Jusik. Now, i don't think there's anything wrong with that, but it's definitely there.

That's the problem most of us have. She was very heavy handed and actually out and out broke established canon to make Jedi look bad. Then as was posted above, there's the things she said about people who didn't agree with her, that just further proves her real intentions.

Sure to some the Jedi were not the knight in shining robes that the movies made them out to be, and I think CW's did a good job of showing another point of view.

But what KT did went beyond just a different PoV and went right into the realm of anti-jedi propaganda.

Just to stick up for propaganda at the moment, it doesn't need to be heavy-handed in order to be propaganda. The most effective propaganda is actually quite subtle. Of course, some people require a bit more heavy-handedness to get through to.

By the sound of it, there are three objections to her writings:

• Heavy-handedness
• Canon-breaking
• Being against the Jedi

The former two seem like criticisms that I would find damning. But are these really all that much of a departure? Was she just more canon-breaking than most? What sort of canon did she break?

Calling Jedi-fans Nazi-sympathizers & slave-owners is a bit over-the-top, but if this is something she said in an interview, who cares. Saying such a thing in an interview is a mistake (is there a direct quote?), but I can see where she's coming from. I wouldn't want to live in a society where a mystical religious cult was appointed as law enforcement, but maybe I'm just a liberal.

Did Frozen go in a direction that I was unaware of?

It was in the directors cut bonus footage.

That's the problem most of us have. She was very heavy handed and actually out and out broke established canon to make Jedi look bad. Then as was posted above, there's the things she said about people who didn't agree with her, that just further proves her real intentions.

Sure to some the Jedi were not the knight in shining robes that the movies made them out to be, and I think CW's did a good job of showing another point of view.

But what KT did went beyond just a different PoV and went right into the realm of anti-jedi propaganda.

Just to stick up for propaganda at the moment, it doesn't need to be heavy-handed in order to be propaganda. The most effective propaganda is actually quite subtle. Of course, some people require a bit more heavy-handedness to get through to.

By the sound of it, there are three objections to her writings:

• Heavy-handedness
• Canon-breaking
• Being against the Jedi

The former two seem like criticisms that I would find damning. But are these really all that much of a departure? Was she just more canon-breaking than most? What sort of canon did she break?

Calling Jedi-fans Nazi-sympathizers & slave-owners is a bit over-the-top, but if this is something she said in an interview, who cares. Saying such a thing in an interview is a mistake (is there a direct quote?), but I can see where she's coming from. I wouldn't want to live in a society where a mystical religious cult was appointed as law enforcement, but maybe I'm just a liberal.

No, there was absolutely no canon-breaking in RC. And there's nothing wrong with hating the Jedi.

I've never read any of her books, so I'm trying to figure out what the point of contention is from the writings here.

I can see the point of showing the Jedi from another point of view than the knight-in-shining-robes.One person's Jedi is another person's übermensch. (I'm glad that Emrico already took us to the Godwinian moment, even if it was KT's words that he'd citing.)

In fact, I quite like that prospect. However, it would have to be skillfully done. In many ways, that's also the point of the prequels and The Clone Wars, though we can debate how skillfully it was done in those.

Oh, I quite agree. It's just that Traviss' way of handling that other perspective was to change it entirely, without explanation and have the Jedi just stand there unable to mount any sort of defence when they were called cradle robbers and the like at best, dumbly agree with the insults being hurled at them at worst.

And that's the critical part. She didn't just have people with different opinions on the Jedi, she had the Jedi agree with those opinions.

-The kid could have still been effective without being as much as a Aladdin clone as he is. Sorry, but its true.

Ehh, farmboy-turned-hero and slave-turned-hero aren't exactly any more original than the thief-turned-hero story.

- A spray painting, steampunk mandolorian chick? Come on now Disney.. You can do much better then that.

I'm more bothered by how her armor doesn't seem to cover much of anything. Just a few tiny plates.

With that being said, everything else looks pretty great. I like the art style, choreography, animation and voice acting.

For me it was the sounds that made it. TIE-fighters, speeder bikes, proper blasters, it was an endless wave of nostalgia.

but if this is something she said in an interview, who cares.

I guess to use a TV Courtroom type term, perhaps even a real legal one... It goes to show motive. I mean if someone paints the heroes of so many other stories in a negative light, it can just be good story telling from a different PoV.

But when the author starts calling the readers names like she did, because they question how she treated the heroes of every other story... It shows quite clearly why she treated the characters the way she did.

It wasn't like she simply reacted poorly to criticism of her writing here either. As for a direct quote, I know I've seen transcripts of some of her interviews and Q&A stuff, but if they're still out there or not is hard to say.

It's really interesting to hear the extreme opinions on KTs writing. I read and enjoyed the Republic/Imperial Commando books, and enjoyed them very much, but I came to them after playing the excellent Republic Commando video game, so my headcanon wasn't solely informed by KT.

I always just kinda assumed that the ******* jedi and noble mandos that she wrote about where the exceptions that proved the rule. They're anomalies, and they are great tools for telling an interesting story. Granted, I assumed that the 'mando history' was, shall we say, "revisionist". If you're going to try to raise kids into good people, give them ideals to aspire to, and all that.

As far as cannon breaking, I've read too much EU to be fussed about contradictions as long as they remain consistent within their own arc.

And there's nothing wrong with hating the Jedi.

There's nothing wrong with a character hating Jedi. There's a lot wrong with an author hating them and using the book as a means to trash them. Especially when the author starts to break canon to make them look bad.

I haven't seen this mentioned in this thread yet, anyone know what is up with "light slingshot"?

http://cdn.screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/star-wars-rebels-poster-610x425.jpg

Apparently banners with it were all over comic con, and it is such a lame idea I would have thought someone would have brought it up by now.

It's really interesting to hear the extreme opinions on KTs writing. I read and enjoyed the Republic/Imperial Commando books, and enjoyed them very much, but I came to them after playing the excellent Republic Commando video game, so my headcanon wasn't solely informed by KT.

I always just kinda assumed that the ******* jedi and noble mandos that she wrote about where the exceptions that proved the rule. They're anomalies, and they are great tools for telling an interesting story. Granted, I assumed that the 'mando history' was, shall we say, "revisionist". If you're going to try to raise kids into good people, give them ideals to aspire to, and all that.

As far as cannon breaking, I've read too much EU to be fussed about contradictions as long as they remain consistent within their own arc.

That's what i think. Who cares if she broke canon if the books were good? Which, IMO they were. Edit: BTW, i read the books after playing the game as well.

I haven't seen this mentioned in this thread yet, anyone know what is up with "light slingshot"?

http://cdn.screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/star-wars-rebels-poster-610x425.jpg

Apparently banners with it were all over comic con, and it is such a lame idea I would have thought someone would have brought it up by now.

We try very hard not to notice the light slingshot.

Who cares if she broke canon if the books were good?

Everyone should, because without Canon we have nothing more then fanfic.

Here's a few things I found out, this mostly comes from the Legacy stuff... Which You and others have said you haven't read.

Jaina is completely flabbergasted by how armor and weapons that could block lightsabers “changed the game” of combat. The Mandalorians also have a super-technique that can let them disappear from the Force. Together these two factors, armor that can stop lightsabers and the ability to not be felt in the Force, completely confounded Jaina who had no idea how to handle it.

Yes, that is correct. Jaina Solo, the Sword of the Jedi. The person who developed the techniques used to fight enemies who had lightsaber resistant armor and weapons and who could not be felt within the Force had no idea how to deal with enemies who had lightsaber resistant armor and weapons and who could not be felt within the Force.

This all came from the book in which KT claims that Boba Fett killed more Jedi then any other single person... Even more then Darth Vader or Darth Sid. In fact Luke tells her that she must go train under Boba, because only he can give her the skills she needs to beat Jacen.

Master Skywalker the greatest Jedi ever, who became One with the Force, who had defeated Jacen in the previous book... Tells her that she must go learn from Boba Fett how to do what Luke had just gone done doing. Boba Fett, who's only on screen accomplishments were to guess what Han was going to do, then get thrown into the Sarlacc pit by a blind Han Solo winging a gaffi stick around.

Oh also I should point out that KT had admitted that even in the process of writing her own books, she had never read a single other Star Wars novel...

Who cares if she broke canon if the books were good?

I care. As a gamer who likes to play in the SWU, I really like a consistent gameworld. Now, I know that there are discontinuities all over the place, but the fewer the better, IMO.

Who cares if she broke canon if the books were good?

Everyone should, because without Canon we have nothing more then fanfic.

Here's a few things I found out, this mostly comes from the Legacy stuff... Which You and others have said you haven't read.

Jaina is completely flabbergasted by how armor and weapons that could block lightsabers “changed the game” of combat. The Mandalorians also have a super-technique that can let them disappear from the Force. Together these two factors, armor that can stop lightsabers and the ability to not be felt in the Force, completely confounded Jaina who had no idea how to handle it.

Yes, that is correct. Jaina Solo, the Sword of the Jedi. The person who developed the techniques used to fight enemies who had lightsaber resistant armor and weapons and who could not be felt within the Force had no idea how to deal with enemies who had lightsaber resistant armor and weapons and who could not be felt within the Force.

This all came from the book in which KT claims that Boba Fett killed more Jedi then any other single person... Even more then Darth Vader or Darth Sid. In fact Luke tells her that she must go train under Boba, because only he can give her the skills she needs to beat Jacen.

Master Skywalker the greatest Jedi ever, who became One with the Force, who had defeated Jacen in the previous book... Tells her that she must go learn from Boba Fett how to do what Luke had just gone done doing. Boba Fett, who's only on screen accomplishments were to guess what Han was going to do, then get thrown into the Sarlacc pit by a blind Han Solo winging a gaffi stick around.

Oh also I should point out that KT had admitted that even in the process of writing her own books, she had never read a single other Star Wars novel...

Well, like i said, i've never read Legacy of the Force.

Because the Disney character catalog is already overflowing with spray painting, steampunk, explosives expert, Mandalorian women?

Did Frozen go in a direction that I was unaware of?

So because Disney doesnt have a character like that it means she fits into the star wars universe?

I don't see the logic here. Please explain what benefit the character brings to the universe?

Heck. Looks to me Like Lucas was hating on the Jedi in the prequels. They were not really portrayed in any really positive way.

The light slingshot is just daft. Even if the tech was there why bother inventing it

So because Disney doesnt have a character like that it means she fits into the star wars universe?

Who's to say what universe she "belongs" too. But she's clearly a departure from the standard Disney Princess.

Please explain what benefit the character brings to the universe?

What benefit does any character bring? You're seriously starting to sound like someone who will come up with any excuse they can find to hate something, because you've already made up your mind, and now need to justify the decision.

Because the Disney character catalog is already overflowing with spray painting, steampunk, explosives expert, Mandalorian women?

Did Frozen go in a direction that I was unaware of?

So because Disney doesnt have a character like that it means she fits into the star wars universe?

I don't see the logic here. Please explain what benefit the character brings to the universe?

Well, someone has to draw those rebel propaganda posters...

Well, someone has to draw those rebel propaganda posters...

Funny you should mention that... Last week I hunted down a bunch of RA propaganda posters and they're now my rotating desktop Although since this is my work computer I had to exclude some of them from the list...

- A spray painting, steampunk mandolorian chick? Come on now Disney.. You can do much better then that.

A lot of us think she makes for an interesting character for those reasons. It breaks quite nicely with the established Disney Princess role.

Its not that she isn't interesting, its that the character does not fit into the universe what so ever.

While the universe is spiraling out of control and the rebels are doing all they can to start a resistance, she has time to run around spray painting?

The character just screams of them forcing her to be different for the sake of being different. Characters are supposed to improve upon a universe and she adds nothing to that.

When the character was revealed their was a pretty big backlash so I'm certainly not the only star wars fan that doesn't thinks she fit.

Just because some 5 year old girl wants to be her for Halloween doesnt mean the character fits.

http://karentraviss.com/page10/files/Is_it_true_you_hate_Jedi_.html

Quite honestly, that says it all. And really, rereading it, I find it funny that she emphasizes that it is fiction, but seems to assume that others can't really distinguish the difference themselves.

But what's done is done. Her story will not be finished because she refused to believe the reality of working in another's universe.

Still, Rebels looks to be good fun. I'm looking forward to it. Heck, I wouldn't mind if Ahsoka shows up (granted, if only to be on the receiving end of her master's lightsaber).

I don't see the issue with Sabine. Not every character has to be super serious.