I like the preview more than I thought I would do. The greatest turnoff was the ISD's long neck. I'm a big lover of the ISD (note that I've not advocated for its inclusion in our game), and so its proportions are a bit sacrosanct for me.

I'm also curious about the speeder bike pilots. What are they, and why didn't they just do biker scouts? Is that because biker scouts are scouts, and these guys are mounted law enforcement?

I've watched the Clone Wars, and while it isn't bright and happy, there is nevertheless a certain kiddie-ness about it. I did like the 1940s newsreel aspect to it, but I didn't care for the blocky animation.

Death Watch was a small group that most of the citizens didn't even know about...

Yeah they did, they were considered a terrorist group, so pretty much everyone had heard of them.

In the first episodes with Mandalore, Satine has to take Obi-wan into a dark corner to tell him about Death Watch, because she didn't want 'alert the citizens'.

And just so you know, i don't read the Commando books because of the Mandos, i read them for the characters. (Except Kal, i hate him so much).

Death Watch was a small group that most of the citizens didn't even know about, and yes, by the end of the lawless it had, but that was because Satine got her head chopped off.

Death Watch was an organization most people claimed not to know. But given that the entirety of Mandalore was descending into civil war by the end of The Lawless, meaning that they had a lot of supporters, this was simply false.

Edit: and the Jedi were the ones who made the clones in the first place, because they foresaw the war.

They could have just gotten a regular army.

Nnnno? I'm not sure what books you've been reading, but the clone army was created by Dooku under Sidious's orders.

In the first episodes with Mandalore, Satine has to take Obi-wan into a dark corner to tell him about Death Watch, because she didn't want 'alert the citizens'.

Satine genuinely believed in her people's pacifism. A false idealism that ended up costing her her life.

Death Watch was a small group that most of the citizens didn't even know about, and yes, by the end of the lawless it had, but that was because Satine got her head chopped off.

Death Watch was an organization most people claimed not to know. But given that the entirety of Mandalore was descending into civil war by the end of The Lawless, meaning that they had a lot of supporters, this was simply false.

Edit: and the Jedi were the ones who made the clones in the first place, because they foresaw the war.

They could have just gotten a regular army.

Nnnno? I'm not sure what books you've been reading, but the clone army was created by Dooku under Sidious's orders.

In the first episodes with Mandalore, Satine has to take Obi-wan into a dark corner to tell him about Death Watch, because she didn't want 'alert the citizens'.

Satine genuinely believed in her people's pacifism. A false idealism that ended up costing her her life.

Actually, the clones were created by Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas. And they were descending into war because their LEADER got killed.

Actually, the clones were created by Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas. And they were descending into war because their LEADER got killed.

Sifo-Dyas had done so under the prodding and manipulation of Darth Plagueis under the guise of Hego Damask. Dooku then killed Sifo-Dyas shortly after he had ordered the clone army and assumed complete control of the project.

The clone army was a Sith project from start to finish.

Also fun fact about real pacifists? They aren't really trained to fly jetpacks with missiles and flamethrowers or shoot blasters at people. And they hate fighting. The fact that everyone just up and went to war shows that pacifism wasn't really a much practised art in private on Mandalore, regardless of what Satine believed.

Yes, i watched every single episode of clone wars

Your just choosing to ignore how they constantly emphasized that mandalore had been an extremely violent culture before Satine tried to reform it and that all through her reign it was constantly on the verge of decending into chaos.

Edit: and the Jedi were the ones who made the clones in the first place, because they foresaw the war.

They could have just gotten a regular army.

There are also several episodes that deal with the morality and free will of the clones and even have Jedi supporting a clone that deserts.

You seriously need to rewatch some stuff because your impressions of the content don't seem anywhere close to what was actually depicted.

Yes, i watched every single episode of clone wars

Your just choosing to ignore how they constantly emphasized that mandalore had been an extremely violent culture before Satine tried to reform it and that all through her reign it was constantly on the verge of decending into chaos.

Edit: and the Jedi were the ones who made the clones in the first place, because they foresaw the war.

They could have just gotten a regular army.

What the hell are you talking about??? It is blindingly obvious that the Jedi were shocked that an army had been created and couldn't figure out how they had missed that. It is firmly established that palpatine manipulated events to get a lone Jedi to place the order and that the Jedi didn't know anything about it until they were handed command of it.

There are also several episodes that deal with the morality and free will of the clones and even have Jedi supporting a clone that deserts.

You seriously need to rewatch some stuff because your impressions of the content don't seem anywhere close to what was actually depicted.

Yes, it said Mandalore had a violent history but mandalore is supposed to be a violent culture.

Sifo-Dyas told the Jedi what he saw but they didn't listen to him.

Sifo-Dyas told the Jedi what he saw but they didn't listen to him.

That's one of the nice bits of Clone Wars too, from my perspective: it does a very good job of showing how, with the best of intentions but under pressure from the war and subject to Palpatine's manipulation, the Jedi transitioned from a large order of pacifist judge-monks to a relatively small but extraordinarily powerful group of interventionist warrior-wizards.

Yes, it said Mandalore had a violent history but mandalore is supposed to be a violent culture.

And as it turned out, it really is. Satine managed to suppress the Mandalorian's violent tendencies for a while, but take her out of the picture for five seconds and all of Mandalore descended straight back to being the space vikings they used to be.

Sifo-Dyas told the Jedi what he saw but they didn't listen to him.

Which only shows that the Jedi didn't create the clone army. Just one lone Jedi being puppeteered by Sith. Thus the Jedi seeing the clones and thinking "oh, these are living beings. Let's converse with them as I would with any other living being" is not an anomaly from another dimension, no matter how much Traviss tries to tell you otherwise.

See, this is why I love Star Wars. There are few fandoms where you can have heated arguments about what really happened and what the truth was in an entirely made up galactic history.

Golden stuff. And I don't mean that sarcastically.

Yes, it said Mandalore had a violent history but mandalore is supposed to be a violent culture.

And as it turned out, it really is. Satine managed to suppress the Mandalorian's violent tendencies for a while, but take her out of the picture for five seconds and all of Mandalore descended straight back to being the space vikings they used to be.

Sifo-Dyas told the Jedi what he saw but they didn't listen to him.

Which only shows that the Jedi didn't create the clone army. Just one lone Jedi being puppeteered by Sith. Thus the Jedi seeing the clones and thinking "oh, these are living beings. Let's converse with them as I would with any other living being" is not an anomaly from another dimension, no matter how much Traviss tries to tell you otherwise.

Oh, and don't forget the fact that the JEDI send clones to KILL other clones who desert.

Also fun fact about real pacifists? They aren't really trained to fly jetpacks with missiles and flamethrowers or shoot blasters at people. And they hate fighting. The fact that everyone just up and went to war shows that pacifism wasn't really a much practised art in private on Mandalore, regardless of what Satine believed.

Corporal Alvin C. York, perhaps the most decorated American soldier of the First World War, was a pacifist and conscientious objector. You should read about how he earned his Medal of Honor, it's a far more entertaining story than anything you'll read in a Star Wars novel.

If someone hates the Jedi, they probably read the RC books.

Or played KOTOR II, like me.

If someone hates the Jedi, they probably read the RC books.

Or played KOTOR II, like me.

I hated the Jedi even before i read the RC books. They just made me hate them even more.

Also fun fact about real pacifists? They aren't really trained to fly jetpacks with missiles and flamethrowers or shoot blasters at people. And they hate fighting. The fact that everyone just up and went to war shows that pacifism wasn't really a much practised art in private on Mandalore, regardless of what Satine believed.

They weren't trained to. Death Watch was. Edit: And these aren't real pacifists. They're made up ones.

Oh, and don't forget the fact that the JEDI send clones to KILL other clones who desert.

Digging through my memory... you mean Pong Krell? Yes, that guy had pretty much fallen to the dark side, but he is a one of very few examples among the dozens of Jedi masters we see during the series. The vast majority of the Jedi... didn't.

They weren't trained to. Death Watch was. Edit: And these aren't real pacifists. They're made up ones.

Right, so this "small" group managed to start a city-wide civil war?

Either Death Watch is a lot bigger then you claimed, or the civvies joined the fighting.

Just an aside, is anybody else amused that this whole mandalore discussion arose because of a hatred of Disney dropping the canon for new movies? Clone Wars pooping on the Existing EU comes under the Lucas era, when Lucas still had lots of input on plot and really, if this wasn't enough to cause you to boycott future Star Wars products (like a certain miniature game) it makes no sense to boycott a Disney future as well?

Oh, and don't forget the fact that the JEDI send clones to KILL other clones who desert.

Digging through my memory... you mean Pong Krell? Yes, that guy had pretty much fallen to the dark side, but he is a one of very few examples among the dozens of Jedi masters we see during the series. The vast majority of the Jedi... didn't.

I'm not talking about Krell. I'm talking about the jedi who send clone hit men to kill ARCs that deserted.

Just an aside, is anybody else amused that this whole mandalore discussion arose because of a hatred of Disney dropping the canon for new movies? Clone Wars pooping on the Existing EU comes under the Lucas era, when Lucas still had lots of input on plot and really, if this wasn't enough to cause you to boycott future Star Wars products (like a certain miniature game) it makes no sense to boycott a Disney future as well?

I'm amused that there's this much conversation going on about a cartoon.

Just an aside, is anybody else amused that this whole mandalore discussion arose because of a hatred of Disney dropping the canon for new movies? Clone Wars pooping on the Existing EU comes under the Lucas era, when Lucas still had lots of input on plot and really, if this wasn't enough to cause you to boycott future Star Wars products (like a certain miniature game) it makes no sense to boycott a Disney future as well?

I'm amused that there's this much conversation going on about a cartoon.

We're not talking about rebels. We're talking about Mandalore.

In what context?

Just an aside, is anybody else amused that this whole mandalore discussion arose because of a hatred of Disney dropping the canon for new movies?

Aye. Business as usual for Star Wars threads.

Oh, and don't forget the fact that the JEDI send clones to KILL other clones who desert.

Digging through my memory... you mean Pong Krell? Yes, that guy had pretty much fallen to the dark side, but he is a one of very few examples among the dozens of Jedi masters we see during the series. The vast majority of the Jedi... didn't.

I'm not talking about Krell. I'm talking about the jedi who send clone hit men to kill ARCs that deserted.

... I'm afraid you have me at a disadvantage, which episode was this?

In what context?

Um...Clone Wars, i guess. (Feels stupid)

Just an aside, is anybody else amused that this whole mandalore discussion arose because of a hatred of Disney dropping the canon for new movies? Clone Wars pooping on the Existing EU comes under the Lucas era, when Lucas still had lots of input on plot and really, if this wasn't enough to cause you to boycott future Star Wars products (like a certain miniature game) it makes no sense to boycott a Disney future as well?

I'm amused that there's this much conversation going on about a cartoon.

And what amounts to glorified fan fiction