Can I, can I just say... OMFG...

Seriously? SERIOUSLY?

You can make a RED manuever... a WHITE manuever... you can K-Turn and STILL GET YOUR ACTION...

It's all over. The game's broken folks. I KNEW expansion packswere a bad idea. Why didn't FFG just stick to the core set? Game = ruined forever.

Pff, at least that one's discard on use. Clearly you haven't seen this pile of ridicule yet:

See this? This card lets you ignore every crit with the pilot trait you suffer. That's 24 percent of the entire damage deck. For one. Measly. Point. When this card comes out, you might as well not even bother with building lists for crits, because nobody would be stupid enough not to take this on everything they can.

(on a more serious note, I do think this is one of the more underrated cards in the game. If you have a point to spare, it never hurts putting Determination on one of your expensive vehicles).

I quite enjoy putting Determination on the my TIE Bomber Elite pilots, especially if using Hull Upgrade too...

Everyone's ignoring the most important thing here.

Dash had a DL-44! Not that thing!

Never mind the gun, where is Dash's beard?!

Never mind all that. Can I please get elite tie bombers with EPTs please?

He... doesn't... get... removed?!

Good work to everyone involved in enchaning this fantasitc game we have and thanks to the man responsible for creating this card.

Having said that I don't think I would use this card (yet) as it seems like it's best suited as either an Insurance policy or for new players - Nothing wrong with that - a great addition to help some Rookies along or just give you that extra confidence going for that epic but tight move near a rock.

The consistent value seems to be in denying the extra green through rocks. Will this trigger enough to be worth 2 points? I don't know but I will start to take some mental notes during my games now on how much this occurs and what would 1 less green dice have done.

It's also good to see the card creator taking the time to interact with the players on the forums and provide some feedback on his playtesting.

Thank you!

I think Han solo with Dash Rendar and Gunner is disgusting. I am not saying this win all matches but makes the game BORING.

First, here's precisely what you said:

Now a monkey, could roll dice and win a game.

There is no skill needed to play this game.

Nice.

I'd encourage you to admit that you were wrong, but mischaracterizing your claim is just silly when we can all go back and check.

Second, you really are wrong. Dash makes the game more interesting, not less; now terrain can mean different things for some ships than for others. This is actually a kind of fascinating region of the design space, and almost no other game elements are located there.

You could use this new crew card to reduce the impact of accidentally beaching yourself on a rock, but doing so is actually a cost: you're taking up a very valuable crew slot to fix an issue that could be repaired for free by flying better. What Dash actually does is allow a ship carrying it to execute guerrilla-style hit-and-run attacks from cover. That's not boring at all, at least in my opinion, but it's objectively not something a monkey can make use of.

Metagame in my area is becoming more and more a scissors, rock and paper. That means regardless wihch squad you play you will get your result strongly depending on the pairing you get. Because there are lists so strong agains some others, there is no stable list but double falcons, that is possibly the most easy to play and have good chances against almost every type of squad.

Against swarms have to be very well played and also against B with FCS. But apart form that is the best option against the game breakers, yes, I am referring to whisper, that ship is able to destroy an entire swarm without any help.

So a lot of players will rely on using Han with VI for a champsionship, and nationals and worlds are close, metagame is getting crazy and a lot of people will run double falcons to have a stable and strong list like:

han VI, gunner

and

chewi + VI, gunner

So having no swarms since players are afraid of facing a Whisper and you could beat whispers with PS 11 and Han's skill.

In the end this is the best and more stable list nowadays regardles if we like it or not. A newbie tend to play rebels like HSF and a double falcon is even easier to play and its favoured by the new torunament tie breaking rules since you have points while your stron falcons are on the board, while a swarm loses points for every 3 damage, I mean 9 damages are 3 ties dead so more or less 40 points lost while in a double falcon means 0 points lost.

So another reason to play doubole falcon and IMHO playing falcons is quite boring, no really dogfight here, no firing arcs involved, no facing... that is the funny point of the game, to estimate movements and to guess what your opponent is going to do. In fact asteroids are one of the most strategic things in the game since they condition your movement.

And now wave 5 announces a yt2400 with a title that allows to carry a HLC to be used a 360º weapon and this Dash Rendar, that eases a newbie to take a falcon and shoot thorugh asteroids, one of veterans choices for defense... in fact it allows to forget about asteroids, ok, you lose your action but gunnner will do the job and a damage is a low price for a surprising maneuver leaving your firing arc wihtout any target and exposed to the falcon.

There is a lot of advantage while running a falcon with this crew indeed there is no need of having much expertise to make the most of it.

So again, IMHO, championship environment is more or less depending on scissors, rock and paper in pairings and anyone could field an easy to handle squad and win a tournament so this makes the game exciting and boring since a raffle, I find it absolutely random, dice are random but now this way a championship is pure randomness.

Another issue is that using ions is not as effective as it used to be if you equipo this crew card since one of the best things of ionizing your opponent is not the damage he can take or the action he loses but having your opponent not firing you, now Dash Rendar helps with a lot of game aspects making a overpowered list to be more and more overpowered, of course its just an oppinion but I am sure we will probably see lists like:

Han 46 IV 1, Dash Rendar 2 + C3PO/Recon Specialist (3) = 52

Chewi 42 IV 1 + gunner 5 = 48

100

I am not a troll, I am a 1st line player and I am upset, just that and I defend my arguments and I would like to see the game going in a different direction, you may take this or leave it, but avoid being disrespectul please, this is not my mother tongue and I doing an effort to explain my point to you.

You think new card will make your favorite (most likely broken and op ) list a bit less good, it gives two options: 1 rant about how they broke this game 2. make a new list. And you chose 1

What I said is not about my favourite list, double falcon is boring I hate it. It takes the better from this game and turn it into real randomness and boring, that could be run by the worst player successfully, no real skill needed. Man I saw whisper taking a 6 ship swarm just alone... it is crazy, metagame is between phantoms and yt-1300.

And wave 5 looks like not going to fix this but make things worse.

And I am upset about championship prizes, they are worst than any other game, wizkid's are much better.

I still dont understand why a 3-0 is not a 3-1 in tournament scoring... really I would like to have an explanation.

Ok things wont be like I would like them to be but I have to protest and claim for some attention for what FFG is doing, then they will do whatever they want as well as I will.

So focus-fire the ship with Dash. If a YT isn't paying attention to its maneuvers, it can get caught in the flank or rear very fast, after which Outmaneuver renders C-3PO useless. And with Dash exchanging Chewie, the YT is easier to crit too.

Yes, Dash is a nice addition to a Falcon list, but I really don't think its as devastating as you believe it will be.

So having no swarms since players are afraid of facing a Whisper and you could beat whispers with PS 11 and Han's skill.

In the end this is the best and more stable list nowadays regardles if we like it or not.

You can kill phantoms with a TIE swarm if you adapt your flying, and they'll shred the more prevalent Falcons.

X-wing: Episode V: The TIE Swarm Strikes Back.

You ask people to not be disrespectful and yet in your openning post make the claim that on the sole basis of what we have seen of Wave 5 with no testing at all that the game is ruined? Complete with so dumbed down a monkey could do it reference?

You don't see how disrespectful that is to the people that create and test this game? Like Vorpal said this is a product of people time and energy, and in the case of the Dash upgrade comes from someone volunteering to try and make the game the best it can be.

It is always easy to cry " 'tis broken! " when you look at the elements in a vacuum.

Thankfully this game's elements only exist thematically within a vacuum.

This is not an ONG but a game product, they make profit with this.

Whisper could easiliy take a whole swarm, one by one.

I am not saying that Dash Rendar breaks the game but the last deicisions taken by FFG points double falcon as overpowered list. So READ pleas, torunament points, whisper and Dash Rendar between other are things powering up double falcon squads.

Wave 5 new ships with 360 degrees make the game boring. Currently there are more 360 firign arc ships than needed.

Whisper could easiliy take a whole swarm, one by one.

Provided they obligingly fly in straight lines and do not attempt to shoot back of course.

Crewman Dash can park on an asteroid, lose an action and potentially take a damage, but still attack!

Most importantly, because who would park his ship willingly on an asteroid, Postman Pat can judge the tumbling of asteroids so well, he can shave the hairs of a Mynock and still hit the TIE that's cowering behind it.

Duck and cover behind a Transport with an EM Emitter? Bahahaha, if I can see you, I can hit you, blast those paltry bonus dice, they do not concern me!

So, I like that this Dash crew card might actually encourage using asteroids for cover. Normally, people only put pilots like Biggs, or maybe Howlrunner, behind asteroids because they don't really care about compromising their attacks, just keeping them alive.

Usually, putting an asteroid between yourself and your target is a bad idea. Now it might actually be a good one to boost your defense while negating theirs. Shooting someone at Range 3, through an asteroid, with an HLC and Dash would be a pretty good spot to be in. Conversely, Dash could copilot in a ship meant for hunting down the usual asteroid-cover pilots.

I don't think Dash will bypass an EM Emitter nor the regular Huge ship obstruction bonus, unless it was fielded as an obstacle in a dogfight match.

I don't think Dash will bypass an EM Emitter nor the regular Huge ship obstruction bonus, unless it was fielded as an obstacle in a dogfight match.

His attacks cannot be obstructed, it says so right there on the card. .

I'm not sure either but until I hear the word of God Hothie how it's meant, that's how I'll interpret it. .

I don't think Dash will bypass an EM Emitter nor the regular Huge ship obstruction bonus, unless it was fielded as an obstacle in a dogfight match.

His attacks cannot be obstructed, it says so right there on the card. .

I'm not sure either but until I hear the word of God Hothie how it's meant, that's how I'll interpret it. .

I thought it mentioned 'by obstacles'. Obviously not!

Unsubstantiated claim about unreleased upcoming wave breaking the game....hmmm...Is it that time of the week already? Does this mean tomorrow is “Imperials need a huge ship” day?

I think the OP thinks the phrase, "Your attacks can not be obstructed" means you can't roll green dice at all. Or he is making a sky is falling thread because we have to meet the status quo.

Unsubstantiated claim about unreleased upcoming wave breaking the game....hmmm...Is it that time of the week already? Does this mean tomorrow is “Imperials need a huge ship” day?

It's always Imperials need a huge ship day.

Unsubstantiated claim about unreleased upcoming wave breaking the game....hmmm...Is it that time of the week already? Does this mean tomorrow is “Imperials need a huge ship” day?

It's always Imperials need a huge ship day.

Touche

This thread is still alive?

Ahhhh.

So he isn't actually upset about Wave 5. He is actually upset with the affect Wave 4 has had. And doesn't realize that people still haven't moved on from the easy counter.

I'm still confused why the HLC Turret is still an issue. They changed the Large ship Barrel Roll, making it much, much easier to get into the blind spot. And that 12 pts is a lot to spend. And of course, we still have a LOT more info to be revealed. Let's just wait to see the entirety of the Wave before we declare the game dead.

Double Falcons is a powerful squad. I don't see them completely leaving the meta. Nor the TIE swarm.

I am not saying that Dash Rendar breaks the game...

The title of the thread is "Wave 5, how to destroy the game".

...but the last deicisions taken by FFG points double falcon as overpowered list. So READ pleas, torunament points, whisper and Dash Rendar between other are things powering up double falcon squads.

But double Falcons are relatively easy to beat. Try BBXX, a swarm with Bombers, Jonus + Gamma + Gamma + escort, XXXZZZ, double Firespray + escort, Brath + mini swarm, um... should I keep going? I can work up some full lists if that would work better.