Been toying around with Echo and love how it moves. I also like to fly as many ships as possible and trying to make a list that gets both of both worlds. Here's what I came up with.

My questions for you is...

Which of these lists (or any other you can come up with do you feel is the most competative?

Is winning initative worth losing Rebel Captive over?

If initative is that important what point level do you think is the sweet-spot to win initiative?

- LIST_01 -

List 3 would be my preferred choice.

It has more meat and sticks to beat the Space Saucers of Doom (YT's) with.

I am a big fan of list 3 myself. The mini-swarm is still a handful to deal with for most people.

I am currently running something very similar:

Echo w/VI, ACD, FCS
Howlrunner w/Swarm Tactics
Alpha Squadron Pilot
2X Academy TIEs

I like the addition of the Alpha just for the extra Red die that goes at 8 thanks to Howl's Swarm Tactics.

Good Luck to you!

I like list 3, too. The extra TIE matters.

Thanks for the quick response!

So how do you feel about the list being 100p in terms of initative?

Should RC be taken off in favor for maybe Tactician landing the list at 99p?

Or should it be taken ever further taking away RC and putting IA on instead?

Do you think it would matter enough to justify losing RC?

To be honest, it is those last 2-3 points where I find the biggest points of contention for me.

You want to come in under 100 it win the initiative bid so that Echo can shoot and re-cloak. What I am finding though, is that people of over-swinging to catch Whisper as well, so you see a lot of PS 9s, 10's and more. Meaning, even if you win initiative, you still end up with Echo getting shot at before she re-cloaks.

My advice, try to shoot for 99 points, Tactician works well enough, or Fire Control system . If you get beat, oh well, they probably have a better pilot anyway OR it will server you better not having initiative in the end game.

To be honest, it is those last 2-3 points where I find the biggest points of contention for me.

You want to come in under 100 it win the initiative bid so that Echo can shoot and re-cloak. What I am finding though, is that people of over-swinging to catch Whisper as well, so you see a lot of PS 9s, 10's and more. Meaning, even if you win initiative, you still end up with Echo getting shot at before she re-cloaks.

My advice, try to shoot for 99 points, Tactician works well enough, or Fire Control system . If you get beat, oh well, they probably have a better pilot anyway OR it will server you better not having initiative in the end game.

Very valid point. Will try list 3 with tactician instead of RC and see where it gets me.

I like 1 personally i've run something similar and it works, makes the other guy sweat over what to go for first, and if he splits his forces you have him.

I like 1 personally i've run something similar and it works, makes the other guy sweat over what to go for first, and if he splits his forces you have him.

This list could be modified into something like this...

...You want to come in under 100 it win the initiative bid so that Echo can shoot and re-cloak. What I am finding though, is that people of over-swinging to catch Whisper as well, so you see a lot of PS 9s, 10's and more. Meaning, even if you win initiative, you still end up with Echo getting shot at before she re-cloaks...

Sorry I don't quite understand this...how does having a higher PS mean you get to shoot at Echo/Whisper uncloaked...as they start cloaked (turn 1 move 1, cloak) and uncloak/recloak via the ACD?

Oh my vote is for list 3 as well.

...You want to come in under 100 it win the initiative bid so that Echo can shoot and re-cloak. What I am finding though, is that people of over-swinging to catch Whisper as well, so you see a lot of PS 9s, 10's and more. Meaning, even if you win initiative, you still end up with Echo getting shot at before she re-cloaks...

Sorry I don't quite understand this...how does having a higher PS mean you get to shoot at Echo/Whisper uncloaked...as they start cloaked (turn 1 move 1, cloak) and uncloak/recloak via the ACD?

Oh my vote is for list 3 as well.

The text on ACD: After you perform an attack, you may perform a free cloak action.

You only get your free cloak action after you shot with the Phantom, meaning higher PS ships will shot at them without the cloak up.

Echo/Whisper only recloak after they fire, which they in turn do after the pilots with a higher PS than 8/9.

Yeah han with VI will hit you with your cloak off so you have to keep that in mind.

Tiltowait - For you to shoot with a Phantom you need to declaok, cloaking takes away their ability to shoot. Declaoking drops their agility down to 2 but they can then fire. After they fire off a shot, hit or miss, ACD kicks in and allows them to recloak.

If you are high enough pilot skill, you get to shoot at Echo/Whisper BEFORE they shoot and are able to recloak. Higher PS is a BIG counter to the TIE Phantom.

Hope that helps!

Been toying around with Echo and love how it moves. I also like to fly as many ships as possible and trying to make a list that gets both of both worlds. Here's what I came up with.

My questions for you is...

Which of these lists (or any other you can come up with do you feel is the most competative?

Is winning initative worth losing Rebel Captive over?

If initative is that important what point level do you think is the sweet-spot to win initiative?

- LIST_01 -

"Echo" (30)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Fire-Control System (2)

Gunner (5)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

"Howlrunner" (18)

Stealth Device (3)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Total: 99

- LIST_02 -

"Echo" (30)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Fire-Control System (2)

Rebel Captive (3)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Academy Pilot (12)

Stealth Device (3)

Academy Pilot (12)

Stealth Device (3)

Academy Pilot (12)

Stealth Device (3)

Academy Pilot (12)

Stealth Device (3)

Total: 100

- LIST_03 -

"Echo" (30)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Fire-Control System (2)

Rebel Captive (3)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Total: 100

Echo

Veteran Instincts

Advanced cloak

Fire control systems

Howlrunner

Swarm tactics

Alpha Squadron

2 academy pilots

This list was awesome but I decided to switch out echo for Whisper. Still at 99 pts for initiative bid, this is possibly even better than echo.

Sure Whisper doesn't get the funky De cloak, but still shoot before most

A very fun build with devastating effects.

Did you mean you have 2 Howlrunners in your list? You know that is illegal, right? Howlrunner is a unique pilot and can only be used once. And the list you have listed here is 101 points, not 100.

Did you mean you have 2 Howlrunners in your list? You know that is illegal, right? Howlrunner is a unique pilot and can only be used once. And the list you have listed here is 101 points, not 100.

My phone had a habit of copy text to the next line for some reason.

I edited it to my proper list

Ah! That look EXACTLY like the list I have been running! Great minds think alike, right?

It is an amazing list

Won our very small store tournament with it lol.

Debating if I should use this or something else at the next one

I have been testing this list on Vassal all weekend and did very well with it. I am preparing to practice it for the next month and unleash it on a local tournament in September.