Figures that this topic would be cut out of existance when I actually wanted to look it up for studying purpose.

An opponent recently pulled this out and I was curious as to how it worked on a few things.

1. When your hand size changes, is that permanent?

2. What can effect the check? I know abyss**'s ability can, but can any control check modifiers mess with it also?

3. Can any card cancel a static effect (This is a general question as I was looking around) or make romanian valley not work?

Thank you for your time.

GhostOfStarmen said:

1.I'm pretty sure it's permanent yah

2. Anything that modifies just a control check. IE: Ibuki, Cervantes' stuff etc etc. Stuff like Soul of the li Sheng Su obviously wouldn't though

3. Not until Omar's character comes out.

Romanian Valley's handsize modification keeps going on, although I wouldn't really call it permanent since you have to re-check every turn :b

GhostOfStarmen said:

1) It is not permanent, and lasts only until the end of your turn. Once your turn ends, your handsize reverts back to printed. (Or whatever it may normally be if you are abusing Q)

2) Anything that can normally modify a control check can modify the control check for the Valley. Abyss is just the most effective at it. (I miss that deck)

3) No. Cards cannot cancel static effects. The most effective way to neuter Romanian Valley is your opponent is running Abyss's Valley is to commit Abyss. The Valley effect is done before cards are ready, so if Abyss is committed he cannot use his ability on the Valley. But at this point in time there is nothing that can cancel Valley's effect.

Keep in mind Ice Coffin of the Sleeping Ancient kills the life gain off of the Valley (Which is a really under rated part of it's effect. )

YW!

Antigoth said:

just putting Ice coffin of the Sleeping ancient out kills it completely, one terrain kills another. you cant stop the effect, but you can put out a new terrain to blow up their valley. another reason to suggest that everyone should run 2-4 terrains in their deck or sideboard

Antigoth said:

That makes that deck slightly less scary now. xD We weren't sure of the permanent part since it just said set and not "till end of turn". And that terrain to cancel out another terrain is a pretty nice trick also. Thanks for the help and strategies. Me and my friends love to play legacy to drag up old rediculous decks. ^^

Antigoth said:

Question. why do you say that it only lasts until the end of the turn? Nothing on the card states that it last to the end of the turn but rather that it rechecks for the ability at the start of each player's turn for that turn's player.

values on cards are reset at the end phase im pretty sure.

Suija said:

From the Advanced Game Rules[AGR]:

2.13.2 Effects will last until the end of the turn they are played unless otherwise stated.

The AGR is located here:

http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/UFS/Support/UFS%20Advanced%20Rules%20ver%202.0.pdf

So if I have one or more cards that, as a continuous ability, increases both of our handsizes (say that I have Pigeon Games and the All foundation of power out, 6 -> 8) then when my opponent's turn begins I will be back at my character's printed handsize and if I use another ability that lets me draw to my handsize, such as lone wolf, then when I draw I will only get 6 cards. Is this correct?

Suija said:

Incorrect, because those are continuous effects.

Romanian Valley is an effect that has multiple working steps. Lets take a look at Romainian Valley:

*At the beginning of the Turn.... If/Then Conditional... Set to X."

So at a specific time, this effect happens.

Because there is no specific end time set to the effects duration, it ends at the end of that players turn. (See 2.13.2 The effect is played for that player at the beginning of their turn.)

On the other hand, Pigeon Games says: "While this card is ready, each player gets +1 Handsize." So say it's in your staging area. During my turn it was comitted some how, when you ready it at the start of your turn, it's now ready, all players get +1 handsize.

Lets look at it on my turn - is it ready? Yes? All players get +1 handsize. There is no if/then conditional creating an effect. It's simply "Is this card ready?" Yes it is! +1.

Lets look at Contemplation of Existence "Each Player's Character gets +1 Handsize."

There is no conditional "At time X generate an effect." It just says "Do this."

So My turn, your turn, Bob's Turn, we're all getting +1.

But isn't Romanian Valley also a continuous ability? Or are you saying that because of the fact that it determines a beginning point and not an end point it is different from other continuous abilities and would thus automatically end for the non-turn player. The "At the beginning of the turn...If/Then Conditional...Set to X." only applies to the turn player, then when the opponent becomes the turn player then the "At the beginning of the turn...If/Then Conditional...Set to X." would then apply to them. The way that I understood it before was that it would keep your handsize at X (assuming that X was determined by the If/Then Conditional) during your opponent's turn and then would apply the If/Then Conditional to X at the start of your turn. The basic jist of what I am understanding you to be saying is if a continuous ability does determines a beginning point for when its effect occurs (such as the start of a turn or when it enters the staging area) but does not determine a point in which the effect will end then the effect is to automatically end at the end of your turn and then begin again at the beggining of your next turn. However, If the ability does not determine a beginning, ending, or does determine a point in which the effect would occur (e.g. while this is ready or commited) then the ability is always active so long as you meet the conditions, if any, for the effect to be active.

Suija said:

In a nutshell correct.

To try and explain it a different way...

Romanian Valley has a continuous ability, as defined in 2.10 of the AGR.

That continuous ability has a specific effect that triggers at the beginning of each players turn.
The effect generated by the continuous ability, (if generated) lasts until the end of turn because there is not another duration specified.

As another example:

US Airbase has a continuous ability as defined in 2.10 of the AGR.

That ability triggers when an identical effect has been played, and forces the control check against a difficulty of 6.
Once the control check is passed or failed, that effect is resolved.

Basically what we are distinguishing between is the ability printed on the card, and the effects generated by the ability. Ability and effect are not the same, however they are often synonymous.

another question about the techs on this card.

If it's my turn, I am playing a seven handsizer but I know I can't check more than a 6 and maybe no less than 3

Then am I forced to pick a number I know I can succed in checking?

Because if I am on full vitality, and a successful check would reduce my handsize .. then why would I pick that number

You can pick any number you want to pick, otherwise the old **Abyss** decks that would say 20 and hack the check wouldn't have worked.

And if I pick wrong, nothing happens?

Correct. Doesn't say anything on the card, so...

I always pick pi as my number.

I always liked 'The Square Root of -1' myself. That or 'A Googleplex'